Wow... This thread is on the edge of being hostile.
(Strange for this forum group.)
Does Parallax have the same deal with ROBOT that they have for N&V for
the republishing of their articles? I'd like to give the second article a good
read before making comment.
Any meat in the second article at all???
I can't remember of Borders still carries the rag of not...
I'm with Phil on the topic of banning... besides, I rather doubt that an actual ban will be needed at this point.
Do they really "disrupt" the forum? Hell, even the Autobahn has a good wreck now and then (were they pulling Lonesock's body out the last time I drove by?).
And come on, it's not like they're selling shoes, like that guy last week. I don't think we had any fun with that post at all, whereas the Mallred/Gouge posts are quite, ummm, entertaining. In fact, given the definition, "Art is that which elicits an emotional response", I would say that these threads belong in a gallery somewhere!
Ned
Added: Just had a look at the link from ImageCraft Mark regarding Mentiflex. Thanks, man, that stuff is priceless!
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
WNed said...
...(were they pulling Lonesock's body out the last time I drove by?)...
[noparse][[/noparse]8^) Yep. The "Official" story is that I had a few too many Dr. Peppers before driving home, but it was really ninjas, hired by a secretive group of A.I. researchers, know only as "The Priory of Robbie"!
Jonathan
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lonesock
Piranha are people too.
We don't ban people from the forums unless they break our rules (primarily related to vulgar language, obscene content, spamming, duplicate logins, posting material inappropriate for youth participants, etc.). Therefore, members Mallred and Dr. Gouge are certainly welcome and encouraged participants on the forum; nothing has been posted that comes close to breaking the rules as we have defined them.
On a separate note, their project contributes to the looming shortage of P8X32A-D40s. . .
I've asked ROBOT if they are interested in making an excerpt or the entire article available to the forums. We will respect their response since their income depends on sales of printed magazines and advertisements.
Quantum leaps ahead, huh? If you did your homework, before being so condecending, you'd find that this forum is chalk FULL of extremely intelligent people ready for an intelligent conversation. The following link is case in point:
> The rest will come ... and will be quantum leaps ahead of the rest of you.
As the posts don't fall to the level of banishment - but many of us are irritated (me too) by fluff with no data - I'd respectfully suggest we let that quote stand for itself.
It reminds me of resumes we get at our office that say things like "Proficient in komputers, encluding Word and Outlook."
Eh? My Numero Uno favorite oxymoron: "quantum leap"
A "quantum"·is the absolute *smallest* possible quantity of energy change. Sooo ... right ... they aren't really lying are they?
<G>
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Post Edited (CounterRotatingProps) : 7/22/2009 7:53:23 PM GMT
He is apperently unaware that there are people on this forum (not me!!) who are more intelligent then him. The problem is that he thinks that just because he is in a "special" field of science that it justifies him as more intelligent.
Poeple on this forum will understand your project. Tell them!!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontroled.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother. :-) ·
Mini-Din/PS2 connectors are for sale! 5 for $1! PM me if you wish to make an order. Cheap·shipping unless specified!··········150 left!!··
Actually "quantum leap" is not an oxymoron. It is the smallest quantity of added energy that will make a change in the state of a system. Smaller amounts of energy will not change the state. When someone talks about making a quantum leap, it would be a change of state, perhaps in the world, perhaps to a new way of thinking, that could not have happened without that particular (or larger) change of energy / thought / ideas. It's still trite these days.
I·find posts like these mildly entertaining if I'm in the mood, but I tend to exercise my own "ban-ishment" prerogative by clicking on the "Ignore Posts From Xxxxxxxx" (Thumb-down Icon) on the upper-right of the offending or irritating post. Instead of engaging posters that·one finds irritating, just ignore them. Remember: "no one likes being alone in cyberspace" The ideal situation (in my mind)·would be for the poster to send a message to the forum administrators asking if the forum was down because they get no response. ;-)
Nevertheless,·for those·who enjoy throwing gasoline on an open fire, help yourself. Sometimes I like to watch (from a safe distance).
> Poeple on this forum will understand your project. Tell them!!
You can find out by yourself:
Go to the webpage. See videos #4..#6 of Dr. Jim.
Download the two articles from that robot-mag (forgot the name, already deleted here) and read them.
You'll find a few keywords, read between the lines. Especially the last quarter on the last page of the second article.
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.: YADRO
Post Edited (Nick Mueller) : 7/22/2009 8:27:31 PM GMT
Mike, I understand what you mean in that a small change can have a big impact. But these guys aren't the butterfly's wings flapping in Texas. (Although perhaps they are Chaos.) And the origin of quantum leap in marketing was because it sounded modern, powerful, and cool - but few using it understood the irony ... and *then* it became a substitute for big things.
The misuse of quantum leap would more evident if it were translated it to: "We've made an infinitesimal leap forward!"
I maintain that it's oxymoronic even more so in the trite context it's used in. Quanta are the smallest possible *measurable* things, which is not necessarily the smallest quantity of added energy that would affect a system.
"In physics, a quantum (plural: quanta) is an *indivisible* entity of a quantity" - wiki "quantum"
It is still not an oxymoron because it does not contradict itself
Jumbo shrimp
Is an oxymoron because the words mean oposits of each other
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
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mallred said...
Your hostility from day one has relegated this forum to an announcement only platform.
I find this comment rather suprising as I find the other members of this forums are typically accomodating to a fault - especially to those seeking knowledge and assistance.· (As opposed to other forums, and localroger can tell you stories, where "if you can't stand the heat" is the rule.)· The responses you received certainly weren't enough to justify your response· (Although now that you have lashed out, "cry havok".)
But do realize that we are all here because we think the Propeller is a cool product and are interested in other people's·projects - even if we may never use them ourselves.· And I'm sure Parallax wants as many commercial users as possible to use the Propeller.· So I hope you do keep the forum informed about your projects, although you may get a better response if you do take the time to do more than simply announce them.
Yoda said...
you will find only what you bring with you
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Composite NTSC sprite driver: Forum
NTSC & PAL driver templates: ObExForum
OnePinTVText driver: ObExForum
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
Nope either rim or mts blocks the video stream. I can see the page
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
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Having viewed the clips, Dr. Jim seems to be an affable fellow who would fit right in here. What the Hell happened?!
...and Dr. Jim, I don't figure you'll ever read this, but a neuron is more like a summing amp than a switch... some even have inverters.
Ned
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
The lady wiring a terminal on a Propeller Proto board in one of those clips seems to be remarkably cack-handed. I hope she isn't assembling their products. Dr Jim ought to buy her a proper pair of wire-strippers.
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Dr jim from the one post I know of that he made on here seemed nice.
I suspect the biggest problem is mallred does not know what he is talking about and dr jim may not realize how much he is doing has already been done.
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
waltc said...
Their careers seemed to take the same route Symbolics took as well.
You wouldn't say this if you had ever used a Symbolics Lisp machine.
The incredibly faster machines of today do not even *approach* the productivity of the
Symbolics machines. Coding on those machines was like driving Ferrari, while Windows
environments and most IDEs are much more like tricycles.
waltc said...
Their careers seemed to take the same route Symbolics took as well.
You wouldn't say this if you had ever used a Symbolics Lisp machine.
The incredibly faster machines of today do not even *approach* the productivity of the
Symbolics machines. Coding on those machines was like driving Ferrari, while Windows
environments and most IDEs are much more like tricycles.
I know a NASA contractor, whose work have been in the last few Mars missions and others, still uses a Symbolic machine for his work. It just works better for him.
Boy, I think I missed something. Besides the couple opening rough posts in this thread, I think I missed some other threads that must have gone awry.
From a very cursory look at Dr. Jim's web site and YouTube items it appears he has been creating a lot of content and buzz around the Propeller. I admittedly don't understand it all because my technical focuses are in other areas. I hope Dr. Jim does come back and help to build a community around the products and advances he is making. I am intrigue myself.
However I can see how the relationship is strained at the moment. I think I better do some research to better understand the past thread and forum topics.
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I. www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, 3.0" LCD Composite video display, eProto for SunSPOT www.tdswieter.com
I wasn't going to post in this thread again, but it seems to have a life of its own (and anyway I'm at work now and can't work on my Prop for hours yet) ... so I will ...
I think the main reason this thread just refuses to die is that there is such a lot of interest in the area Mark/Dr Jim are working in. Even though I'm with Hanno and don't believe any machine based on the Propeller is ever going to pass the Turing Test (well, maybe on the Prop II ...) it is natural that any group of people interested in a parallel processor is also going to be interested in the greatest parallel processor of them all - the brain - and any attempts to emulate it.
So Mark is posting in the right forum, and his posts should generate quite an interesting discussion. Unfortunately, he just doesn't seem to know how to approach it correctly. It is quite natural that some of the forum members will know at least as much about the subject as he or Dr Jim appear to - some will probably know a lot more. And it is also quite natural that such a group will not accept mere unsupported and implausible pronouncements at face value. Even if they did so, they would still naturally ask lots of technical questions and expect some reasonable attempt at an answer. Many would be happy with answers as simple as "well, we don't exactly know yet, but here's what we're currently working on ...". If he did this, Mark would probably find himself inundated with encouragement and offers of assistance.
But every thread Mark starts seems to go much the same way - i.e. an unsupported announcement from Mark promising something REAL SOON NOWTM, followed by increasingly frustrated questions and requests for more information from the forum members, followed by equally frustrated outbursts by Mark and/or Dr Jim (but this time laced with apparent disdain for the very audience he is attempting to woo) ... but no additional information. Then silence ... until the next time.
If Mark and Dr Jim want to sell their products they should be prepared to answer reasonable (or even silly) questions about them. If they want help with their products they could just try asking for it - a bit of humilty would be nice, but is not mandatory since many people on this forum appear quite willing to respond even to very rude demands for assistance. It's even ok if they just want to be admired for their cleverness - but they should be prepared to provide some evidence, and not just storm off in a huff whenever their audience doesn't automatically fall to their knees.
Over to Mark and Dr Jim ...
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Catalina - a FREE C compiler for the Propeller - see Catalina
waltc said...
Their careers seemed to take the same route Symbolics took as well.
You wouldn't say this if you had ever used a Symbolics Lisp machine.
The incredibly faster machines of today do not even *approach* the productivity of the
Symbolics machines. Coding on those machines was like driving Ferrari, while Windows
environments and most IDEs are much more like tricycles.
Hyperbole much?
Come back to me after you've used these machines and tell me what you think.
Very well put RossH. Yes, it's a shame that Dr.Jim and Mark are having such a tough time on this forum. They are doing some good stuff, but unfortunately their marketing and communication methods aren't working for them. If they just talked about the technical details of what they've actually accomplished I'm sure they would get a lot of respect from everyone here- including me. Would be wonderful if they spent some time lurking and reading through some topics- this forum is wonderful!
Hanno
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Download a free trial of ViewPort- the premier visual debugger for the Propeller
Includes full debugger, simulated instruments, fuzzy logic, and OpenCV for computer vision. Now a Parallax Product!
Clearly Dr. Gouge is not interested in an open exchange of ideas and knowledge. Dr, Gouge is interested in patenting "intelligence". He is selling proprietary modules to pay for his efforts. Good luck, Dr. G. Those of us just "playing around" out here will have to suffice with having dozens and dozens of highly qualified hobbyists and engineers designing hardware and software for and with us...
Ned
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
Comments
(Strange for this forum group.)
Does Parallax have the same deal with ROBOT that they have for N&V for
the republishing of their articles? I'd like to give the second article a good
read before making comment.
Any meat in the second article at all???
I can't remember of Borders still carries the rag of not...
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
Do they really "disrupt" the forum? Hell, even the Autobahn has a good wreck now and then (were they pulling Lonesock's body out the last time I drove by?).
And come on, it's not like they're selling shoes, like that guy last week. I don't think we had any fun with that post at all, whereas the Mallred/Gouge posts are quite, ummm, entertaining. In fact, given the definition, "Art is that which elicits an emotional response", I would say that these threads belong in a gallery somewhere!
Ned
Added: Just had a look at the link from ImageCraft Mark regarding Mentiflex. Thanks, man, that stuff is priceless!
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
Post Edited (WNed) : 7/22/2009 5:05:32 PM GMT
Jonathan
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lonesock
Piranha are people too.
On a separate note, their project contributes to the looming shortage of P8X32A-D40s. . .
I've asked ROBOT if they are interested in making an excerpt or the entire article available to the forums. We will respect their response since their income depends on sales of printed magazines and advertisements.
Ken Gracey
Parallax Inc.
http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=369144
As the posts don't fall to the level of banishment - but many of us are irritated (me too) by fluff with no data - I'd respectfully suggest we let that quote stand for itself.
It reminds me of resumes we get at our office that say things like "Proficient in komputers, encluding Word and Outlook."
Eh? My Numero Uno favorite oxymoron: "quantum leap"
A "quantum"·is the absolute *smallest* possible quantity of energy change. Sooo ... right ... they aren't really lying are they?
<G>
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Post Edited (CounterRotatingProps) : 7/22/2009 7:53:23 PM GMT
Poeple on this forum will understand your project. Tell them!!
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Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontroled.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother. :-)
·
Mini-Din/PS2 connectors are for sale! 5 for $1! PM me if you wish to make an order.
Cheap·shipping unless specified!··········150 left!!··
Nevertheless,·for those·who enjoy throwing gasoline on an open fire, help yourself. Sometimes I like to watch (from a safe distance).
Duffer
Post Edited (Duffer) : 7/22/2009 8:03:41 PM GMT
You can find out by yourself:
Go to the webpage. See videos #4..#6 of Dr. Jim.
Download the two articles from that robot-mag (forgot the name, already deleted here) and read them.
You'll find a few keywords, read between the lines. Especially the last quarter on the last page of the second article.
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
Post Edited (Nick Mueller) : 7/22/2009 8:27:31 PM GMT
The misuse of quantum leap would more evident if it were translated it to: "We've made an infinitesimal leap forward!"
I maintain that it's oxymoronic even more so in the trite context it's used in. Quanta are the smallest possible *measurable* things, which is not necessarily the smallest quantity of added energy that would affect a system.
"In physics, a quantum (plural: quanta) is an *indivisible* entity of a quantity" - wiki "quantum"
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Jumbo shrimp
Is an oxymoron because the words mean oposits of each other
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
But do realize that we are all here because we think the Propeller is a cool product and are interested in other people's·projects - even if we may never use them ourselves.· And I'm sure Parallax wants as many commercial users as possible to use the Propeller.· So I hope you do keep the forum informed about your projects, although you may get a better response if you do take the time to do more than simply announce them. ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Composite NTSC sprite driver: Forum
NTSC & PAL driver templates: ObEx Forum
OnePinTVText driver: ObEx Forum
A link to video #4. I think this is what you are referring to.
Rich H
Oh, and sorry, I didn't want to say "Dr. Joe" it's Dr. Jim!
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
At all?
Rich H
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
...and Dr. Jim, I don't figure you'll ever read this, but a neuron is more like a summing amp than a switch... some even have inverters.
Ned
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Suzuki SV1000S motorcycle
Post Edited (Leon) : 7/22/2009 9:43:28 PM GMT
I suspect the biggest problem is mallred does not know what he is talking about and dr jim may not realize how much he is doing has already been done.
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propmod_us and propmod_1x1 are in stock. Only $30. PCB available for $5
Want to make projects and have Gadget Gangster sell them for you? propmod-us_ps_sd and propmod-1x1 are now available for use in your Gadget Gangster Projects.
Need to upload large images or movies for use in the forum. you can do so at uploader.propmodule.com for free.
You wouldn't say this if you had ever used a Symbolics Lisp machine.
The incredibly faster machines of today do not even *approach* the productivity of the
Symbolics machines. Coding on those machines was like driving Ferrari, while Windows
environments and most IDEs are much more like tricycles.
From a very cursory look at Dr. Jim's web site and YouTube items it appears he has been creating a lot of content and buzz around the Propeller. I admittedly don't understand it all because my technical focuses are in other areas. I hope Dr. Jim does come back and help to build a community around the products and advances he is making. I am intrigue myself.
However I can see how the relationship is strained at the moment. I think I better do some research to better understand the past thread and forum topics.
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Timothy D. Swieter, E.I.
www.brilldea.com - Prop Blade, LED Painter, RGB LEDs, 3.0" LCD Composite video display, eProto for SunSPOT
www.tdswieter.com
I think the main reason this thread just refuses to die is that there is such a lot of interest in the area Mark/Dr Jim are working in. Even though I'm with Hanno and don't believe any machine based on the Propeller is ever going to pass the Turing Test (well, maybe on the Prop II ...) it is natural that any group of people interested in a parallel processor is also going to be interested in the greatest parallel processor of them all - the brain - and any attempts to emulate it.
So Mark is posting in the right forum, and his posts should generate quite an interesting discussion. Unfortunately, he just doesn't seem to know how to approach it correctly. It is quite natural that some of the forum members will know at least as much about the subject as he or Dr Jim appear to - some will probably know a lot more. And it is also quite natural that such a group will not accept mere unsupported and implausible pronouncements at face value. Even if they did so, they would still naturally ask lots of technical questions and expect some reasonable attempt at an answer. Many would be happy with answers as simple as "well, we don't exactly know yet, but here's what we're currently working on ...". If he did this, Mark would probably find himself inundated with encouragement and offers of assistance.
But every thread Mark starts seems to go much the same way - i.e. an unsupported announcement from Mark promising something REAL SOON NOWTM, followed by increasingly frustrated questions and requests for more information from the forum members, followed by equally frustrated outbursts by Mark and/or Dr Jim (but this time laced with apparent disdain for the very audience he is attempting to woo) ... but no additional information. Then silence ... until the next time.
If Mark and Dr Jim want to sell their products they should be prepared to answer reasonable (or even silly) questions about them. If they want help with their products they could just try asking for it - a bit of humilty would be nice, but is not mandatory since many people on this forum appear quite willing to respond even to very rude demands for assistance. It's even ok if they just want to be admired for their cleverness - but they should be prepared to provide some evidence, and not just storm off in a huff whenever their audience doesn't automatically fall to their knees.
Over to Mark and Dr Jim ...
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Catalina - a FREE C compiler for the Propeller - see Catalina
Come back to me after you've used these machines and tell me what you think.
Hanno
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Download a free trial of ViewPort- the premier visual debugger for the Propeller
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Ned
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"They may have computers, and other weapons of mass destruction." - Janet Reno