Rayman,
Yes I've considered that but fear doing it because of some things I've seen a heat gun do to ABS plastic [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Maybe the connector material has a higher temperature rating than ABS. Have you tried anything like this?
I appears to be the same material as that used in the PSM's LCD display... I think it's Mylar.
I've often used a hot air gun on it no problem. You can also put a soldering iron directly on it.
It might be hard to get off with just an iron though...
For me it is not problem to understand English ... BUT write is litle problem.
I have plenty of time to work ... BUT not money to realise.
Not posiblity to buy that device to back enginering its schematiks to.
But if You have hand writen/drawing .... It is not problem to me to Place it in "ISIS" shcematik part of "Proteus"
and then Draw Layout on it.
Problem is to have corect dimension on all components. In first place Dimensions on Its Box and placement of display part to fit corectly in box.
You have used 4 pin male conector. My idea is to have 4 pin female conector in that place and use 4 pins Female to Female pins to be compatible with PropPlug-
Regards
Christoffer
Ps. I remowe that conectors by Hot air on oposite side of PCB. Works in most cases.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty. For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer. Don't guess - ask instead. If you don't ask you won't know. If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
The resolution on the LCD is 128x128. There is no way to have a complicated flicker-free full
screen animation on the LCD as far as I can tell except maybe by read-xor-write. The spec sheet
mentions RMW commands, but it is beyond me how to use them. The scrolling rectangles are
done with the LCD's built-in screen scroll feature. Thought I could use scroll and partial display
to animate, but both can't be active simultaneously and partial display looks "funky."
You're right about the connector withstanding a soldering iron. The specs have no connector
temperature range and don't say what the material is. It probably is Mylar. The LCD itself is
rated to 80c ... need a heat-shield for extraction. I guess heating the back of the board would
work according to Saphieha's suggestion ... especially since the PCB would be disposable.
@Saphieha,
I didn't spend much time reverse engineering the circuit since I wanted to save as much circuit
function as possible. The female connector is a good idea for sure ... I can imagine my first
encounter with the male pins stuck in my gr... oops, my leg.
It would take as long to draw this up in Eagle as it would in paint or some other drawing method.
I have to decide whether or not to make a PCB for this. Finding the parts an making the schematic
is a little more than half the battle. I'll let you know what I come up with later.
Jazzed:· Why do you think you can't do flicker-free?· You are using the 8-bit 8080-series interface mode right?
I just took a quick look at the datasheet and it does the standard auto address update upon write, so you should be able to stream data very quickly...
Rayman: Yes, I'm using 8080 mode, but there is "tearing" ... maybe I have the term
wrong, but it reminds me of the old sci-fi movies where you get to see alien videos and
vertical or diagonal bands roll across the screen. The TE pin is not available for blanking
status; if it was, the 15ms blanking interval would be a great place to do updates. They
do mention auto update after memory write, but it doesn't seem to perform very well ...
maybe it's a setting I have to make but I don't see it.
Well, just as a point of reference, the PSM uses 8-bit 8080-series interface mode and I think you'll see the "Graphics Demo" runs pretty well at 320x240 with very little flicker... So, I think it's just a software issue... Did you ever try the unit "as-is"? I assume it has some sort of slideshow mode... That may indicate how fast it can update the screen...
You do need to set the "Window" before updating the screen. Just set this to the full screen size, if you intend to update the whole screen.
@Rayman,
I'm attaching what I have here so you and others can take a look. Maybe I'm missing some technique.
The unhacked unit draws very slowly and is not trying to make any animations.
@microcontrolled,
The LCD driver is not using substantial buffer space. There is ~28KB left for code, etc... in the demo.
Some of what you see is a "trick" of the controller and is not really so great.
Porting the TvFavorites demo to this would be easy since the interfaces are mostly the same.
jazzed said...
Then I'll import my 5x9 mono spaced character set.
I created a 5x6 font a while back, variable spacing. 5x6 = 30 bits, leaving 2 bits in a long to code the width of the glyph. So it's one long per character. I have "!" (ASCII 33) through "~" (ASCII 126) defined, everything else I just draw as a space. You're welcome to it if you'd like. The glyphs are coded in columns (ST7565P driver chip I'm using writes 8-pixel-high rows), but I have the generator source around somewhere, if you want the bits organized in rows instead of columns.
Jonathan
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lonesock
Piranha are people too.
With a 128x128 pixel display, using 8x8 pixels -> 16x16 characters of 5x7pixels or 6x8 pixels - 120x16 characters of 5x7 pixels.
Would this be readable Steve?
I am wondering if the USB-microSD adapter with microSD would work ?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
Well the thing I most feared has happened. I can no longer program the Propeller.
It will "ID" fine, but downloading fails with a write error. I suspect that it has something to do
with connecting the prop-plug with the unit's battery completely drained, but can offer no proof.
There have been other situations I've seen where the prop-plug tried to supply power to the
chip through IO pins and a failure happened. So, my conclusion is that the USB port must
be used to ensure power is available during programming.
I think the right thing to do is make a replacement PCB. That allows using the FTDI chip and
all the other goodies like a uSD card for OBC, light sensor, microphone, speaker, etc....
@Ron, A light sensor would be good for controlling display contrast. I was thinking that a few
minutes of inactivity would be a good reason to enter low power mode. Amazingly, with full
power to LCD and driver/spin COGs running, the battery lasted about 5 hours.
@Cluso99, Yes, the font in the video is hard to read. The video was made with a web-cam so
it's really hard to judge by that. The 5x9 is pretty small, but readable. I'm not sure what you
mean about a USB microSD.
@lonesock, Your font sounds interesting. I would like to see your implementation. The font
I'm using is fixed size (535 total font bytes) ... there is a 95 byte offset array used, but it look
like just multiples of 5, so that can be optimized.
jazzed said...
@lonesock, Your font sounds interesting. I would like to see your implementation. The font
I'm using is fixed size (535 total font bytes) ... there is a 95 byte offset array used, but it look
like just multiples of 5, so that can be optimized.
Sure, I'll dig it out. The reason I went for a long per glyph is that my entire font table is in cog RAM, and fetching a single long is easy in pasm, so the whole system is fast. This also has the benefit that once you load your driver cog, you can overwrite the DAT space used to hold the code and font table.
Jonathan
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
lonesock
Piranha are people too.
Sweet optimization Jonathan. Your ideas always impress me.
Rayman,
Detecting ambient light with back light LED is definitely worth looking into [noparse]:)[/noparse] At first I was concerned about not being able to "see the light" because of the LCD design, but as a last resort I can see turning off the display momentarily for measurement then turning it back on. The back-light on this LCD requires a transistor to boost LED current which complicates things a little. At least there is a separate connection for anode/cathode to do reverse bias for measuring RC-time. So it looks like 3 pins are needed: 1) forward bias enable, 2) reverse bias enable, and 3) reverse bias RC measurement. Guess I need to make a schematic. Not much time for hobby today.
BTW, I'll be adding an EEPROM socket now since I can't program through the friggin' serial port :<
Steve: Since you are going to replace the pcb my idea may be irrelevant, but here goes anyway...
You have a USB connection which can (using the old processor anyway) read a USB stick - correct?
Well, there are USB sticks with sockets for microSD cards (I posted pics on a thread a while back re SD v microSD).
So, can we access the microSD contained within the USB stick - that is the million dollar question ??? This would save having an internal microSD socket/card.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
@Cluso99: Ah, Ok ... small misunderstanding. The USB is a "device" (not a host) and provides access to the big SPI Flash chip which happens to have PC software and is the place where pictures are stored for the photo-frame. So the device normally is more or less Flash on a wire.
microcontrolled said...
@Cluso99: Just a simple tip: YOU CANNOT CONNECT USB STRAIGHT TO THE PROPELLER. I have seen it in many threads before, and it is just a fact to go by.
Now, I just need to correct that little misconception. The propeller is capable of low speed USB. At 96MHz it even has enough accuracy to perform as a host.
The kicker is bulk endpoints (used by printers, disks and serial ports) are now allowed by the standard running at low speed. This means most devices that one might want to connect to the propeller won't actually function even if host code had been developed.
Now, mice/keyboards/joysticks *may* function if the appropriate host code is written (running at 96Mhz), however the HID protocol is quite complex and each device can implement different parts of it, so the host code is by necessity quite complex. To comfortably fit it into the Propeller, it would need to be trimmed and tailored to the device to be controlled.
Having said that, the Propeller can (has and does) quite comfortably perform as a low speed device. (Keyboard, mouse, joystick and by violating the specification a serial port).
So yes, with three pins and three resistors the Propeller *can* connect directly to USB (just not as a host *easily*).
Yes, I was just wondering if the prop could implement a very basic (and violate the spec) interface to the USB memory devices.
My thought was to provide an adapter that plugs into the PropPlug pins on say a Prop ProtoBoard and the other end had a USB socket to plug into a USB memory device. Obviously we would need to provide +5V for this. It was just a thought.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
Yes, I was just wondering if the prop could implement a very basic (and violate the spec) interface to the USB memory devices.
Unfortunately (spec violation or not) it's just not gonna work. USB mass storage devices just don't talk low speed. The spec states that all host devices must do high speed, so most (all I've seen) take advantage of that by not supporting low speed in the hardware/firmware.
Comments
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
Yes I've considered that but fear doing it because of some things I've seen a heat gun do to ABS plastic [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Maybe the connector material has a higher temperature rating than ABS. Have you tried anything like this?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
I've often used a hot air gun on it no problem. You can also put a soldering iron directly on it.
It might be hard to get off with just an iron though...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
For me it is not problem to understand English ... BUT write is litle problem.
I have plenty of time to work ... BUT not money to realise.
Not posiblity to buy that device to back enginering its schematiks to.
But if You have hand writen/drawing .... It is not problem to me to Place it in "ISIS" shcematik part of "Proteus"
and then Draw Layout on it.
Problem is to have corect dimension on all components. In first place Dimensions on Its Box and placement of display part to fit corectly in box.
You have used 4 pin male conector. My idea is to have 4 pin female conector in that place and use 4 pins Female to Female pins to be compatible with PropPlug-
Regards
Christoffer
Ps. I remowe that conectors by Hot air on oposite side of PCB. Works in most cases.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
Don't guess - ask instead.
If you don't ask you won't know.
If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Sapieha
Post Edited (Sapieha) : 7/11/2009 10:09:37 PM GMT
The resolution on the LCD is 128x128. There is no way to have a complicated flicker-free full
screen animation on the LCD as far as I can tell except maybe by read-xor-write. The spec sheet
mentions RMW commands, but it is beyond me how to use them. The scrolling rectangles are
done with the LCD's built-in screen scroll feature. Thought I could use scroll and partial display
to animate, but both can't be active simultaneously and partial display looks "funky."
You're right about the connector withstanding a soldering iron. The specs have no connector
temperature range and don't say what the material is. It probably is Mylar. The LCD itself is
rated to 80c ... need a heat-shield for extraction. I guess heating the back of the board would
work according to Saphieha's suggestion ... especially since the PCB would be disposable.
@Saphieha,
I didn't spend much time reverse engineering the circuit since I wanted to save as much circuit
function as possible. The female connector is a good idea for sure ... I can imagine my first
encounter with the male pins stuck in my gr... oops, my leg.
It would take as long to draw this up in Eagle as it would in paint or some other drawing method.
I have to decide whether or not to make a PCB for this. Finding the parts an making the schematic
is a little more than half the battle. I'll let you know what I come up with later.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
I just took a quick look at the datasheet and it does the standard auto address update upon write, so you should be able to stream data very quickly...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
wrong, but it reminds me of the old sci-fi movies where you get to see alien videos and
vertical or diagonal bands roll across the screen. The TE pin is not available for blanking
status; if it was, the 15ms blanking interval would be a great place to do updates. They
do mention auto update after memory write, but it doesn't seem to perform very well ...
maybe it's a setting I have to make but I don't see it.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
You do need to set the "Window" before updating the screen. Just set this to the full screen size, if you intend to update the whole screen.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
Do you have to have buffer space like with the TV?
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Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontroled.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother. :-)
·
Mini-Din/PS2 connectors are for sale! 5 for $1! PM me if you wish to make an order.
Cheap·shipping unless specified!··········150 left!!··
I'm attaching what I have here so you and others can take a look. Maybe I'm missing some technique.
The unhacked unit draws very slowly and is not trying to make any animations.
@microcontrolled,
The LCD driver is not using substantial buffer space. There is ~28KB left for code, etc... in the demo.
Some of what you see is a "trick" of the controller and is not really so great.
Porting the TvFavorites demo to this would be easy since the interfaces are mostly the same.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
Jonathan
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
lonesock
Piranha are people too.
Would this be readable Steve?
I am wondering if the USB-microSD adapter with microSD would work ?
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, RamBlade, TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80), MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, RamBlade, TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80), MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
But Soooooo small.
Can you find room for a light sensor, so that it goes to sleep when you put it you pocket ?
There would be a work around required so that you could use it at night though. LOL
Cheers [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Ron
It will "ID" fine, but downloading fails with a write error. I suspect that it has something to do
with connecting the prop-plug with the unit's battery completely drained, but can offer no proof.
There have been other situations I've seen where the prop-plug tried to supply power to the
chip through IO pins and a failure happened. So, my conclusion is that the USB port must
be used to ensure power is available during programming.
I think the right thing to do is make a replacement PCB. That allows using the FTDI chip and
all the other goodies like a uSD card for OBC, light sensor, microphone, speaker, etc....
@Ron, A light sensor would be good for controlling display contrast. I was thinking that a few
minutes of inactivity would be a good reason to enter low power mode. Amazingly, with full
power to LCD and driver/spin COGs running, the battery lasted about 5 hours.
@Cluso99, Yes, the font in the video is hard to read. The video was made with a web-cam so
it's really hard to judge by that. The 5x9 is pretty small, but readable. I'm not sure what you
mean about a USB microSD.
@lonesock, Your font sounds interesting. I would like to see your implementation. The font
I'm using is fixed size (535 total font bytes) ... there is a 95 byte offset array used, but it look
like just multiples of 5, so that can be optimized.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
Jonathan
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
lonesock
Piranha are people too.
Rayman,
Detecting ambient light with back light LED is definitely worth looking into [noparse]:)[/noparse] At first I was concerned about not being able to "see the light" because of the LCD design, but as a last resort I can see turning off the display momentarily for measurement then turning it back on. The back-light on this LCD requires a transistor to boost LED current which complicates things a little. At least there is a separate connection for anode/cathode to do reverse bias for measuring RC-time. So it looks like 3 pins are needed: 1) forward bias enable, 2) reverse bias enable, and 3) reverse bias RC measurement. Guess I need to make a schematic. Not much time for hobby today.
BTW, I'll be adding an EEPROM socket now since I can't program through the friggin' serial port :<
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
You have a USB connection which can (using the old processor anyway) read a USB stick - correct?
Well, there are USB sticks with sockets for microSD cards (I posted pics on a thread a while back re SD v microSD).
So, can we access the microSD contained within the USB stick - that is the million dollar question ??? This would save having an internal microSD socket/card.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, RamBlade, TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80), MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
@Cluso99: Ah, Ok ... small misunderstanding. The USB is a "device" (not a host) and provides access to the big SPI Flash chip which happens to have PC software and is the place where pictures are stored for the photo-frame. So the device normally is more or less Flash on a wire.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Toys are microcontroled.
Robots are microcontroled.
I am microcontroled.
If it's not Parallax then don't even bother. :-)
·
Mini-Din/PS2 connectors are for sale! 5 for $1! PM me if you wish to make an order.
Cheap·shipping unless specified!··········150 left!!··
Now, I just need to correct that little misconception. The propeller is capable of low speed USB. At 96MHz it even has enough accuracy to perform as a host.
The kicker is bulk endpoints (used by printers, disks and serial ports) are now allowed by the standard running at low speed. This means most devices that one might want to connect to the propeller won't actually function even if host code had been developed.
Now, mice/keyboards/joysticks *may* function if the appropriate host code is written (running at 96Mhz), however the HID protocol is quite complex and each device can implement different parts of it, so the host code is by necessity quite complex. To comfortably fit it into the Propeller, it would need to be trimmed and tailored to the device to be controlled.
Having said that, the Propeller can (has and does) quite comfortably perform as a low speed device. (Keyboard, mouse, joystick and by violating the specification a serial port).
So yes, with three pins and three resistors the Propeller *can* connect directly to USB (just not as a host *easily*).
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Release the hounds!
Yes, I was just wondering if the prop could implement a very basic (and violate the spec) interface to the USB memory devices.
My thought was to provide an adapter that plugs into the PropPlug pins on say a Prop ProtoBoard and the other end had a USB socket to plug into a USB memory device. Obviously we would need to provide +5V for this. It was just a thought.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, RamBlade, TwinBlade,·SixBlade, website
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index) ZiCog (Z80), MoCog (6809)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
Unfortunately (spec violation or not) it's just not gonna work. USB mass storage devices just don't talk low speed. The spec states that all host devices must do high speed, so most (all I've seen) take advantage of that by not supporting low speed in the hardware/firmware.
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Release the hounds!
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My Prop Info&Apps: ·http://www.rayslogic.com/propeller/propeller.htm