Languages have now reached a total of 108 for the Propeller chip.
We are extending the collection goal to the next increment of 120.
So if you notice a working Propeller language missed on the list,
post a note and a download link in this thread and we'll update
the list.
Note the introduction of a new language category - languages
which communicate with the Propeller chip. Download and
information links are continually being provided and appear
below the language name.
Note the introduction of a new language category - languages
which communicate with the Propeller chip. Download and
information links are continually being provided and appear
below the language name.
Wouldn't that be any language or application that can talk over a serial port or ethernet for that matter ?
DOS, bash, csh, sh, Pascal, C, C#, C++, PLI, Java, Modula2, Perl, Python, Ruby, IO, Tcl/tk, Expect, AJAX, VB6, VB.net, Basic this and that, etc... ad-nauseum.
jazzed said...
Wouldn't that be any language or application that can talk over a serial port or ethernet for that matter ?
DOS, bash, csh, sh, Pascal, C, C#, C++, PLI, Java, Modula2, Perl, Python, Ruby, IO, Tcl/tk, Expect, AJAX, VB6, VB.net, Basic this and that, etc... ad-nauseum.
If you could take DOS and make it run those commands on the Propeller chip (not sure they even apply until the drive is interfaced), or if you can take BASIC and implement its commands on the Propeller chip, then it could qualify. The propeller chip would need a program to run and accept the data from the external language and implement the command. Maybe this thing already has a name?
humanoido
Post Edited (humanoido) : 10/30/2009 10:50:43 PM GMT
Ok, fixed the quote. Indeed its late here - the only time I currently have
to respond to posts. Sorry if the context was missed. You are welcome to elaborate.
humanoido said...
Languages have now reached a total of 108 for the Propeller chip.
We are extending the collection goal to the next increment of 120.
So if you notice a working Propeller language missed on the list,
post a note and a download link in this thread and we'll update
the list.
Note the introduction of a new language category - languages
which communicate with the Propeller chip. Download and
information links are continually being provided and appear
below the language name.
humanoido
>>> Note the introduction of a new language category - languages
which communicate with the Propeller chip.
To Which I said...
Wouldn't that be any language or application that can talk over a serial port or ethernet for that matter ?
DOS, bash, csh, sh, Pascal, C, C#, C++, PLI, Java, Modula2, Perl, Python, Ruby, IO, Tcl/tk, Expect, AJAX, VB6, VB.net, Basic this and that, etc... ad-nauseum.
DOS can (or used to be able to) read/write the serial port. DOS has a batch language. Any language with access to the serial port fits the description "languages which communicate with the Propeller chip." Maybe this is another list?
I guess what I'm trying to point out is that maybe there needs to be something special about the language or application. Viewport talks to Propeller, Propalzyer talks to Propeller, PST talks to Propeller, Phil's EEPROM load Perl script talks to Propeller, etc ... also.
Maybe "I'm splitting hairs" to a point ... still, some hairs are just bigger than others. It is of course nice to highlight the many things possible with Propeller.
Anyway, it's your list and your topic and it is yours to do with however you wish.
Instead of just being capable of talking to the Propeller-which is a big list, I think you want to highlight programs/languages that actively communicate with the Propeller. This would include jazzed's list above- and 12Blocks and PropScope...
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here), 12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
Hanno said...
Instead of just being capable of talking to the Propeller-which is a big list, I think you want to highlight programs/languages that actively communicate with the Propeller. This would include jazzed's list above- and 12Blocks and PropScope...
Hanno, what is the difference between talking to the Propeller and actively communicating with the Propeller?
Jazzed said...
DOS can (or used to be able to) read/write the serial port. DOS has a batch language. Any language with access to the serial port fits the description "languages which communicate with the Propeller chip." Maybe this is another list?
I guess what I'm trying to point out is that maybe there needs to be something special about the language or application. Viewport talks to Propeller, Propalzyer talks to Propeller, PST talks to Propeller, Phil's EEPROM load Perl script talks to Propeller, etc ... also.
Maybe "I'm splitting hairs" to a point ... still, some hairs are just bigger than others. It is of course nice to highlight the many things possible with Propeller.
Thanks for highlighting many additional capabilities of the Propeller! It takes considerable knowledge to split hairs the way you do. I agree, we need additional list categories spelling out the differences. I think we're in rather good agreement about languages that run on the Propeller and languages that do not. Given a great number of programs written in various languages that can communicate through serial to the Propeller chip, this can be another category. However, will this open up a Pandora's box if the communicating hardware is included in the list?
BradC said...
I suspect as part of the anti-spam measures the board (sensibly) limits to a certain number of clickable URL's... best guess anyway.
Makes good sense. Thanks for solving the mystery.
Added more links and updated authors. Now is the time to contribute information, links, authorship details, etc. Some duplicate languages were deleted and some new versions added. Also added some totally new languages to the list like MOUSE for example.
What is it now, 111 languages? Who cares to speculate the highest number reachable? We're raising the Bar on Propeller programming languages.
humanoido
Post Edited (humanoido) : 11/7/2009 1:31:11 PM GMT
The updated main list of languages will now be maintained and kept on the first post on page 1 of this thread to keep things more simple. Note, when possible, a summary of the language is included, along with various links and authors. Feel free to contribute information and post open discussion.
Note there are several additions and subtractions (duplicates) - the most recent addition is DUMBO BASIC - a fantastic language addition by RossH. The specs show this runs on two Propeller board versions! This BASIC version even runs the original ELIZA and STAR TREK, included with the language!
humanoido
Post Edited (humanoido) : 11/15/2009 12:55:30 PM GMT
Somewhere along the line it has been forgotten that the Prop can be programmed with the GCC C compiler. That is, there is a version of GCC that compiles for the 6809 and the resulting binaries are runnable under MoCog.
MoCog is not perfected yet so perhaps this is a bit premature but early test programs for MoCog were created with GCC.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
heater said...
Somewhere along the line it has been forgotten that the Prop can be programmed with the GCC C compiler. That is, there is a version of GCC that compiles for the 6809 and the resulting binaries are runnable under MoCog. MoCog is not perfected yet so perhaps this is a bit premature but early test programs for MoCog were created with GCC.
Thanks for noting this important language for the Propeller chip. Can you recommend any download links?
Getting the compiled binary into a form ready load into MoCog with say a Spin "file" statement is a bit of a trick with objdump and or hexdump under Linux which I don't remeber exactly at this moment. I'd probably need to provide some instructions when MoCog is a bit more mature.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
It's a stretch, but if you include languages that use a board which has a Propeller chip, then
you could include AppleBASIC and AppleML which run on the Relica1 which employs a Propeller
for the video functions of the board.
A stretch maybe, but... [noparse]:)[/noparse]
OBC
I stand corrected... I finally got a chance to build a Replica 1 at NYC resistor.
The Propeller is being used for keyboard input as well as video in a "terminal"
fashion. I'm thinking that it would be interesting to add some Propeller graphics
commands to Applesoft BASIC using REM in the basic code itself, detecting the
special commands on the fly as they come to the Propeller side... fun stuff.
Still might be a stretch for your list, but it's neat to see the Propeller used
for more than just video output.
OBC said...
It's a stretch, but if you include languages that use a board which has a Propeller chip, then
you could include AppleBASIC and AppleML which run on the Relica1 which employs a Propeller
for the video functions of the board. A stretch maybe, but... [noparse]:)[/noparse].
I stand corrected... I finally got a chance to build a Replica 1 at NYC resistor.
The Propeller is being used for keyboard input as well as video in a "terminal"
fashion. I'm thinking that it would be interesting to add some Propeller graphics
commands to Applesoft BASIC using REM in the basic code itself, detecting the
special commands on the fly as they come to the Propeller side... fun stuff.
Still might be a stretch for your list, but it's neat to see the Propeller used
for more than just video output.
It certainly does look like Applesoft
can control the Propeller chip for the functions of video and keyboard, and
therefore does indeed qualify as a language. However, it does not actually
load as a complete language into the Propeller chip. If, however, the
development includes a graphics command language that loads into the
Propeller, that could be included. Perhaps there is already a graphics
language?
I was just reviewing the definitions of language and I see that DOS is a scripting language.
Therefore, any DOS versions that run on the Propeller? Given my memory of numerous
versions of DOS, this could be a big boost for our list. I wonder if this would include CPM
as well.
Why are you wondering? CP/M is already on the list.
I'm not sure that a DOS is necessarily a language in this context. OK they generally take commands from the user, say from a keyboard, understand in some way what is to be done and then do it. This of course looks like a language interaction but its not written in a file as a program as we like to think about interpreters and compilers etc.
However, CP/M has a batch file interpreter "SUBMIT" which will read those same user commands from a file and perform the desired actions. So here we definitely have CP/M as a language.
Now I'd like to put up a little sideways thought.
Here we have been considering human input to a DOS and input from a file to a DOS where the input is in some form of language.
We can generalize this to any data from any source as input to any program. The input data if it has the correct form causes the program to do something and perform some action. The input data has a lexicon, syntax and a semantics that the program understands.
We have been looking at data in the form of Spin, PASM, C or what ever programming language formats. But what about a hyper simple case like a switch as input and a LED as output and a system that lights the led if the switch is on?
This has a lexicon of two symbols or tokens: Move switch down or move switch up.
It has a syntax: Switch down can only follow switch up. Switch up can only follow switch down.
It has symatics: Switch down means put LED on. Switch up means put LED off.
I put it to you that the humble light switch is a language processing system and that every program written for every computer ever is a language processing system. So all Prop programs are languages.
That is the end of today's ramblings. Perhaps you should just stick to human to machine languages.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Here's some information that defines the role of DOS and CPM as language functions.
Wikipedia said... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batch_file
History: Originally command interpreters' primary responsibility was to execute out commands entered manually. Such commands might involve starting programs, carrying out file operations, executing functions concerned with controlling the system, setting preferences or administrative tasks. Sequences of such commands were also sometimes stored in files, which could be later passed to the command interpreter to be read and executed, so such stored sequences could be termed sets of 'batch
Commands: Over time, command interpreters or 'shells' grew additional features, as such stored sequences of such 'batch commands' became more complex, and command interpreters evolved into something more akin to interpreters for a kind of limited programming languages or 'script'. Additional commands, advanced syntactic features and computation abilities were added which allowed sophisticated programs to be written so that batch files or scripts could contain a mixture of commands of the traditional.
Early influences: Microsoft DOS batch language was influenced by various Unix shells, as well as other text-based command line interfaces from the early 1980s such as CP/M which in turn took much of their inspiration from TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 from Digital Equipment Corporation. Although a DOS batch file is analogous to a shell script in Unix-like operating systems, the syntax and range of commands available is less sophisticated.
DOS: The first example of Microsoft's batch files were the .bat files used by DOS. The operating system used COMMAND.COM to process commands and batch files. Commands were either internal (part of COMMAND.COM), or if they were too large to keep in the main file; external, where COMMAND.COM would look for the command each time it is requested at the prompt (or display an error message if it didn't exist). This meant that if one wanted, they could add commands to DOS, and in turn allow more functionality to batch files when using the new commands. An example of an important batch file was AUTOEXEC.BAT which automatically runs after DOS loads during booting. It typically had commands to load drivers.
Enhancements and alternatives: The limitations of the DOS command intrepreter led to various non-Microsoft interpreters to provide enhanced syntax by providing "enhancement" commands such as those in the Norton Utilities (like the BE or Batch Enhancer), in 1989 the replacement shell 4DOS.
There is also a web site dedicated to Windows 95/98/ME Batch files that includes an Interactive Batch Course with built-in Reference. It reiterates the batch language concept.
Allenware.com said... www.allenware.com/icsw/icswidx.htm The versatile MS-DOS/MSDOS Batch Language automates routine tasks with Batch files (lists of Batch commands). Learn how to write Batch files with this free, interactive Course and built-in Batch Reference. You need no prior knowledge of Batch files: you're guided through each step on screen in your Web Browser – no need for prinouts.
AND there are other Windows scripting languages.
Wikipedia said...
"In addition to traditional batch files, the need for more powerful capabilities has led to the development of other Windows-specific scripting languages:
* .kix: KiXtart was developed by a Microsoft employee in 1991, specifically to met the need for commands useful in a network logon script while retaining the simple 'feel' of the traditional batch file.
* .vbs and .js: Released in 1998, Windows Script Host (comprised of cscript.exe and wscript.exe) allows the running of scripts written in VBScript or JScript. They can be run in windowed mode (with the wscript.exe host) and console-based mode (with the cscript.exe host). They were included as a part of Windows since Windows 98.
* .ps1: In 2006, Microsoft released a further raw-text script processor, Windows PowerShell, which can be used with Windows XP (SP2/SP3) and above. This is designed for both interactive use from a command line interface, and also for writing scripts, and has a strong resemblance to Unix shells.[noparse][[/noparse]6]
In addition to these, powerful cross platform scripting tools such as Perl and Python are now available for Windows.
Added 23 more languages, mostly versions of DOS and CPM
and did updating on the links and sources. Will continue to work
on the list and make it more comprehensive, though nearly every
language has a download URL offered.
Note: of special interest is the Atari 2600 with a 6507 processor emulator by Michael Kohn.
"I was looking for an idea for a cool Parallax Propeller project to work on and I figured I'd try out an Atari 2600 emulator. This chip seems like a good microcontroller to do this on since it has 8 cores running at 80MHz, plus a library for outputting to a TV or VGA monitor. I already had C and Java code (links at web site) I wrote for emulating a 6510 CPU (close enough to the 6507) so I wrote a c2spin program to convert the C code to the built in Spin language of the Propeller. I thought about doing assembly language like I typically do on micros, but on this chip the assembly language would need to fit in 512 32bit addresses of each cog (Parallax's word for a Propeller core)."
These are the number of new Propeller languages added each month of update. 67 languages were added in October and 42 languages so far in November. There were numerous new language authors in recent months. Now is the time to work hard on your new language. There's a couple days left in November. Anyone care to increase November's total by volunteering a new language?
humanoido
MAY 14
AUGUST 19
OCTOBER 67
NOVEMBER 42
Post Edited (humanoido) : 11/27/2009 7:05:43 PM GMT
I can't see the point, either, especially as none of them seem to run native on the Propeller. Does anyone actually use any of these languages for developing Propeller applications? I could implement all those languages and a lot more besides much easier on a $99 FPGA kit by using the various hardware MPU emulations that are available.
I am reminded of Dr Johnson's famous saying:
"Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."
Leon
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Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Comments
We are extending the collection goal to the next increment of 120.
So if you notice a working Propeller language missed on the list,
post a note and a download link in this thread and we'll update
the list.
Note the introduction of a new language category - languages
which communicate with the Propeller chip. Download and
information links are continually being provided and appear
below the language name.
humanoido
DOS, bash, csh, sh, Pascal, C, C#, C++, PLI, Java, Modula2, Perl, Python, Ruby, IO, Tcl/tk, Expect, AJAX, VB6, VB.net, Basic this and that, etc... ad-nauseum.
humanoido
Post Edited (humanoido) : 10/30/2009 10:50:43 PM GMT
to respond to posts. Sorry if the context was missed. You are welcome to elaborate.
>>> Note the introduction of a new language category - languages
which communicate with the Propeller chip.
DOS can (or used to be able to) read/write the serial port. DOS has a batch language. Any language with access to the serial port fits the description "languages which communicate with the Propeller chip." Maybe this is another list?
I guess what I'm trying to point out is that maybe there needs to be something special about the language or application. Viewport talks to Propeller, Propalzyer talks to Propeller, PST talks to Propeller, Phil's EEPROM load Perl script talks to Propeller, etc ... also.
Maybe "I'm splitting hairs" to a point ... still, some hairs are just bigger than others. It is of course nice to highlight the many things possible with Propeller.
Anyway, it's your list and your topic and it is yours to do with however you wish.
Post Edited (jazzed) : 10/31/2009 1:38:22 AM GMT
Hanno
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Co-author of the official Propeller Guide- available at Amazon
Developer of ViewPort, the premier visual debugger for the Propeller (read the review here, thread here),
12Blocks, the block-based programming environment (thread here)
and PropScope, the multi-function USB oscilloscope/function generator/logic analyzer
humanoido
If you see a language without a download link, please post it here
with any details.
humanoido
But I cannot understand why the url link format is not working
after the following link. Any ideas?
ALTAIR MINOL TINY BASIC, by heater
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=776749
humanoido
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If you always do what you always did, you always get what you always got.
Added more links and updated authors. Now is the time to contribute information, links, authorship details, etc. Some duplicate languages were deleted and some new versions added. Also added some totally new languages to the list like MOUSE for example.
What is it now, 111 languages? Who cares to speculate the highest number reachable? We're raising the Bar on Propeller programming languages.
humanoido
Post Edited (humanoido) : 11/7/2009 1:31:11 PM GMT
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=809630
The Ultimate List of Propeller Chip Languages:
Implementations, Authors and Source Links
Post Edited (humanoido) : 11/15/2009 4:42:09 PM GMT
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=809630
Note there are several additions and subtractions (duplicates) - the most recent addition is DUMBO BASIC - a fantastic language addition by RossH. The specs show this runs on two Propeller board versions! This BASIC version even runs the original ELIZA and STAR TREK, included with the language!
humanoido
Post Edited (humanoido) : 11/15/2009 12:55:30 PM GMT
MoCog is not perfected yet so perhaps this is a bit premature but early test programs for MoCog were created with GCC.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
humanoido
MoCog from the MoCog thread around here.
Getting the compiled binary into a form ready load into MoCog with say a Spin "file" statement is a bit of a trick with objdump and or hexdump under Linux which I don't remeber exactly at this moment. I'd probably need to provide some instructions when MoCog is a bit more mature.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
I stand corrected... I finally got a chance to build a Replica 1 at NYC resistor.
The Propeller is being used for keyboard input as well as video in a "terminal"
fashion. I'm thinking that it would be interesting to add some Propeller graphics
commands to Applesoft BASIC using REM in the basic code itself, detecting the
special commands on the fly as they come to the Propeller side... fun stuff.
Still might be a stretch for your list, but it's neat to see the Propeller used
for more than just video output.
OBC
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
can control the Propeller chip for the functions of video and keyboard, and
therefore does indeed qualify as a language. However, it does not actually
load as a complete language into the Propeller chip. If, however, the
development includes a graphics command language that loads into the
Propeller, that could be included. Perhaps there is already a graphics
language?
humanoido
Therefore, any DOS versions that run on the Propeller? Given my memory of numerous
versions of DOS, this could be a big boost for our list. I wonder if this would include CPM
as well.
humanoido
I'm not sure that a DOS is necessarily a language in this context. OK they generally take commands from the user, say from a keyboard, understand in some way what is to be done and then do it. This of course looks like a language interaction but its not written in a file as a program as we like to think about interpreters and compilers etc.
However, CP/M has a batch file interpreter "SUBMIT" which will read those same user commands from a file and perform the desired actions. So here we definitely have CP/M as a language.
Now I'd like to put up a little sideways thought.
Here we have been considering human input to a DOS and input from a file to a DOS where the input is in some form of language.
We can generalize this to any data from any source as input to any program. The input data if it has the correct form causes the program to do something and perform some action. The input data has a lexicon, syntax and a semantics that the program understands.
We have been looking at data in the form of Spin, PASM, C or what ever programming language formats. But what about a hyper simple case like a switch as input and a LED as output and a system that lights the led if the switch is on?
This has a lexicon of two symbols or tokens: Move switch down or move switch up.
It has a syntax: Switch down can only follow switch up. Switch up can only follow switch down.
It has symatics: Switch down means put LED on. Switch up means put LED off.
I put it to you that the humble light switch is a language processing system and that every program written for every computer ever is a language processing system. So all Prop programs are languages.
That is the end of today's ramblings. Perhaps you should just stick to human to machine languages.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
For me, the past is not over yet.
There is also a web site dedicated to Windows 95/98/ME Batch files that includes an Interactive Batch Course with built-in Reference. It reiterates the batch language concept.
AND there are other Windows scripting languages.
and did updating on the links and sources. Will continue to work
on the list and make it more comprehensive, though nearly every
language has a download URL offered.
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=809630
humanoido
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=809630
humanoido
Note: of special interest is the Atari 2600 with a 6507 processor emulator by Michael Kohn.
"I was looking for an idea for a cool Parallax Propeller project to work on and I figured I'd try out an Atari 2600 emulator. This chip seems like a good microcontroller to do this on since it has 8 cores running at 80MHz, plus a library for outputting to a TV or VGA monitor. I already had C and Java code (links at web site) I wrote for emulating a 6510 CPU (close enough to the 6507) so I wrote a c2spin program to convert the C code to the built in Spin language of the Propeller. I thought about doing assembly language like I typically do on micros, but on this chip the assembly language would need to fit in 512 32bit addresses of each cog (Parallax's word for a Propeller core)."
www.mikekohn.net/micro/propeller_atari_emulator.php
and Parallax Forum has an ongoing development thread here for related information
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=767703
humanoido
Post Edited (humanoido) : 11/27/2009 7:05:43 PM GMT
What an amazing list!
Graham
I am reminded of Dr Johnson's famous saying:
"Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."
Leon
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Amateur radio callsign: G1HSM
Post Edited (Leon) : 11/28/2009 3:20:56 PM GMT
Graham