Prof_Braino brings forth a new spectacular creation - Propforth 3.4 has some very significant developments, especially the ability to monitor one cog using another in realtime from the forth command line!
This is an extension to the propforth kernel allowing a prop demo board or similar (VGA and Keyboard pin-out) to perform as a stand-alone forth-based development system a-la the Jupiter ACE.
While Prop Jupiter ACE is targeted primarily for multi-prop solutions (e.g. C3, Hive, UltraSpark 40, etc), the VGA support still leaves about 4k free for further development using a single prop.
The VGA terminal displays two active cogs by default, cog 3 and cog 4. Type ALT+TAB at the keyboard switched between cogs. Other cogs can be accessed thru any terminal window at any time using the documented words. (Please ask about the documentation if you read it, I don't get much mail.)
Folks (mostly me and Sal) have noted that it is incredibly useful and cool to be able to monitor one cog using another in realtime from the forth command line.
Bean writes: I've been toying around with making a version of femtoBASIC in PropBasic instead of spin for speed. Here is my first crack at it. The hard-coded program has a tight 3 line loop that toggles pin 0. It's pretty fast 300,000 (simple) lines per second. So the pin toggles at 100KHz.
Propforth 3.5 is available for download. http://code.google.com/p/propforth/downloads/list
The standard kernel can be loaded with the Low Res VGA extension.
(Compare to the HiResVGA which has the Hi Res VGA driver built into the modified HiRes VGA kernel)
Low Res VGA has two pages of larger characters in 15 lines of 32 characters. More colors and more attributes are supported
Use (CTL + ALT) to switch between VGA pages
Please check the updated FAQ
http://obex.parallax.com/objects/626/
NOSIC Navigation-Oriented Symbolic Instruction Code. This lets you use xbees to get ascii renderings from a camera-equipped robot and issue commands to it, program it over the radio link, and the simple networking interface even lets you use robots as repeaters for when you think you're getting out of xbee range. mkb@libero.it for schematics and so on.
m.k.borr, do you have a forum link for discussion of NAVCOM AI? Where can we find more information? You may send the source to my email address found at the link.
Catalina 2.7
RossH comments on this spectacular language development project.
Catalina 2.7 is now available. Catalina is a FREE ANSI compliant C compiler for the Propeller.
Catalina is hosted and released via SourceForge - see catalina-c.sourceforge.net. At present you will see only a default sourceforge project page - but you will find a link to the project downloads on that page. Since SourceForge has generous file size limits, each of the Windows and Linux distributions are provided in a single download containing all documentation, source code and binaries - this should simplify the download and installation process. The documentation is also available separately.
Bean continues to "WOW" us with his spectacular software for the Propeller. Now he's integrated "the love of our life," a BASIC Stamp 2 into the prop and it can directly run PBASIC Stamp 2 programs loaded from the Stamp IDE. You can run 4 stamps at the same time inside the prop cogs in one prop chip.
I have posted updated code that allows the "Basic Stamp IDE" to download PBASIC code into the propeller. The propeller emulates a stock BS2. When the propeller is started it waits to recieve a program from the "Basic Stamp IDE", then it runs that program. To download a new PBASIC program, you need to reset the propeller. NOTE: Only a limited number of the PBASIC commands are implemented so far. This is a work in progress... Bean.
Ross H writes: I have just uploaded a BETA version of Catalina 2.8 to sourceforge (here). This release is NOT finished, and it has not been tested as thoroughly as I would like - so you download and use it at your own risk. However, I have promised the new graphics driver to a few people, and it just seemed easier to upload the whole of Catalina 2.8 (as it currently stands) rather than try and isolate out just the new graphics driver.
Great list, but I find it very hard to use because it doesn't categorize the tools by license. When the propeller first came out I quickly started ignoring it because there wasn't an open source tool chain, and there was insufficient released documentation to create one. Now... I gather there is at least one open source tool chain so it is now possible for me to use the propeller on projects that are restricted to 100% open source tools. This is cool. But.... it looks like about 4 evenings of research to figure out which tools in this list have which license.
So... my suggestion is that the next update of this list someone(s) makes a pass over it and annotates each entry with the applicable license. I'd help, but I'm starting from a base of zero knowledge.
In the mean time, does someone know which of the tools on this list are open source, and is there an end-to-end tool chain that is open source?
SIMULATED SPIN by Dave Hein I spent a few days writing a Spin simulator. The attached zip file contains a first cut at the simulator. I've implemented most of the Spin bytecodes, except for the cogxxx and lockxxx ones. Also the value for cnt is always zero. I'll transate the system time into a cnt value at some point. Pin-related operations don't really do anything. I also haven't implemented the bit read and write functions. The simulator runs in a DOS window on a Windows machine. Also, the basic I/O drivers are different. Instead of using FullDuplexSerial and FSRW the simulator uses conio and fileio. These drivers provide the same basic methods such as rx, tx, popen, pread, etc. You can use the Parallax Prop Tool, BST or homespun to compile the spin code and generate a binary file. spinsim loads the binary file and executes it.
..
Great list, but I find it very hard to use because it doesn't categorize the tools by license. When the propeller first came out I quickly started ignoring it because there wasn't an open source tool chain, and there was insufficient released documentation to create one. Now... I gather there is at least one open source tool chain so it is now possible for me to use the propeller on projects that are restricted to 100% open source tools. This is cool. But.... it looks like about 4 evenings of research to figure out which tools in this list have which license.
So... my suggestion is that the next update of this list someone(s) makes a pass over it and annotates each entry with the applicable license. I'd help, but I'm starting from a base of zero knowledge.
In the mean time, does someone know which of the tools on this list are open source, and is there an end-to-end tool chain that is open source?
dbc: you want to use all the languages as open source?
The way the list is handled now, if you need a specific language, you can look it up on the list and follow the links to determine the status if it is open source code or not. If no information is there, you may contact the author and find the status. It would be more reasonable to handle each language on a one-by-one case basis for your needs due to the amount of work in trying to categorize all languages.
In the future, if the author explicitly states the language is open source, I will add some annotation to denote it.
dbc: you want to use all the languages as open source?
The way the list is handled now, if you need a specific language, you can look it up on the list and follow the links to determine the status if it is open source code or not. If no information is there, you may contact the author and find the status. It would be more reasonable to handle each language on a one-by-one case basis for your needs due to the amount of work in trying to categorize all languages.
In the future, if the author explicitly states the language is open source, I will add some annotation to denote it.
Yes, what I'm looking for is a 100% open source tool chain. As you rightly point out, trying to find that out from this list as it is currently organized is a huge amount of work. And as you point out it will require contacting authors -- it could take days. Bottom line -- there are a huge number of processors out there that I can use if I felt like it. My time is very limited. I'm not going to go on a major research expedition just to decide if I should consider one of them -- life is too short. 100% open source tool chain is a major qualifying criteria for any processor that I choose. For many processors, I can answer that question in two minutes of googling. Not for the Propeller.
When the propeller first came out, I was quite interested in it. I was even given a development system, gratis. I gave it away the next day, after I found out that the Propeller had undocumented interfaces. As I understand it, the proprietary interfaces have now been openly documented, so it's worth a 2nd look. I wonder how many design wins Parallax flushed down the toilet with their bizarre attitude? From 1980 until 2001 I worked as a CPU designer -- nobody else ever had that strange attitude. (In fact, one of the things that I find interesting about the Propeller is that it reminds me greatly of the CDC 6600 peripheral processor complex that CDC came out with in 1959... it was a great idea then, and still is. I worked at CDC among other places.)
I just wish that the Ultimate List would be included in the Sticky of Propeller references. When I am looking at posted threads, it is a bit hard to comprehend what is being discussed without some knowledge of where a language specific project fits into the whole scheme.
I just wish that the Ultimate List would be included in the Sticky of Propeller references. When I am looking at posted threads, it is a bit hard to comprehend what is being discussed without some knowledge of where a language specific project fits into the whole scheme.
I agree, it would make a good Propeller sticky if I can continue to revise it and add more languages. This may or may not help but I put a bunch of test links which you can find by clicking on my signature. Go to the section with "Lists" and find the Ultimate List.
Soon there will be more pages to this thread than their are floors in Humanoido's Tower of Power
Don't be sorry. Your posts are all valuable to this thread. Oops, I see Phil just bumped this thread again.
We are interested in knowing the open source status of all languages and their related elements so any contributed information posted here has potential to be incorporated into the list. The existing list and new posts will be updated with open source status when the information is made known.
BTW, Heater's ZOG thread has 47 pages. You'll need to build your own machine with floors to keep up with that thread!
Comments
Humanoido
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?t=125441
This is an extension to the propforth kernel allowing a prop demo board or similar (VGA and Keyboard pin-out) to perform as a stand-alone forth-based development system a-la the Jupiter ACE.
While Prop Jupiter ACE is targeted primarily for multi-prop solutions (e.g. C3, Hive, UltraSpark 40, etc), the VGA support still leaves about 4k free for further development using a single prop.
The VGA terminal displays two active cogs by default, cog 3 and cog 4. Type ALT+TAB at the keyboard switched between cogs. Other cogs can be accessed thru any terminal window at any time using the documented words. (Please ask about the documentation if you read it, I don't get much mail.)
Folks (mostly me and Sal) have noted that it is incredibly useful and cool to be able to monitor one cog using another in realtime from the forth command line.
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=943563#post943563
Bean writes: I've been toying around with making a version of femtoBASIC in PropBasic instead of spin for speed. Here is my first crack at it. The hard-coded program has a tight 3 line loop that toggles pin 0. It's pretty fast 300,000 (simple) lines per second. So the pin toggles at 100KHz.
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?t=126285
Propforth 3.5 is available for download.
http://code.google.com/p/propforth/downloads/list
The standard kernel can be loaded with the Low Res VGA extension.
(Compare to the HiResVGA which has the Hi Res VGA driver built into the modified HiRes VGA kernel)
Low Res VGA has two pages of larger characters in 15 lines of 32 characters. More colors and more attributes are supported
Use (CTL + ALT) to switch between VGA pages
Please check the updated FAQ
Could you add links to those please? It's almost impossible to find stuff in the OBEX.
-Phil
http://obex.parallax.com/objects/626/
NOSIC Navigation-Oriented Symbolic Instruction Code. This lets you use xbees to get ascii renderings from a camera-equipped robot and issue commands to it, program it over the radio link, and the simple networking interface even lets you use robots as repeaters for when you think you're getting out of xbee range. mkb@libero.it for schematics and so on.
http://obex.parallax.com/objects/592/
NAVCOM AI compatible (email me for NAVCOM source code please).
Author:
m.k.borri
mkb@libero.it
I did not find SEBELS for genetic programming. Please post the links.
-Phil
RossH comments on this spectacular language development project.
Catalina 2.7 is now available. Catalina is a FREE ANSI compliant C compiler for the Propeller.
Catalina is hosted and released via SourceForge - see catalina-c.sourceforge.net. At present you will see only a default sourceforge project page - but you will find a link to the project downloads on that page. Since SourceForge has generous file size limits, each of the Windows and Linux distributions are provided in a single download containing all documentation, source code and binaries - this should simplify the download and installation process. The documentation is also available separately.
Here's what he had to say:
I have posted updated code that allows the "Basic Stamp IDE" to download PBASIC code into the propeller. The propeller emulates a stock BS2. When the propeller is started it waits to recieve a program from the "Basic Stamp IDE", then it runs that program. To download a new PBASIC program, you need to reset the propeller. NOTE: Only a limited number of the PBASIC commands are implemented so far. This is a work in progress... Bean.
Cleaning up the list and updating it today.. Know of any new languages for the prop???
Edit: original commentary removed by request of Braino
Ross H writes: I have just uploaded a BETA version of Catalina 2.8 to sourceforge (here). This release is NOT finished, and it has not been tested as thoroughly as I would like - so you download and use it at your own risk. However, I have promised the new graphics driver to a few people, and it just seemed easier to upload the whole of Catalina 2.8 (as it currently stands) rather than try and isolate out just the new graphics driver.
So... my suggestion is that the next update of this list someone(s) makes a pass over it and annotates each entry with the applicable license. I'd help, but I'm starting from a base of zero knowledge.
In the mean time, does someone know which of the tools on this list are open source, and is there an end-to-end tool chain that is open source?
TIA
-dave
SIMULATED SPIN by Dave Hein
I spent a few days writing a Spin simulator. The attached zip file contains a first cut at the simulator. I've implemented most of the Spin bytecodes, except for the cogxxx and lockxxx ones. Also the value for cnt is always zero. I'll transate the system time into a cnt value at some point. Pin-related operations don't really do anything. I also haven't implemented the bit read and write functions. The simulator runs in a DOS window on a Windows machine. Also, the basic I/O drivers are different. Instead of using FullDuplexSerial and FSRW the simulator uses conio and fileio. These drivers provide the same basic methods such as rx, tx, popen, pread, etc. You can use the Parallax Prop Tool, BST or homespun to compile the spin code and generate a binary file. spinsim loads the binary file and executes it.
..
The way the list is handled now, if you need a specific language, you can look it up on the list and follow the links to determine the status if it is open source code or not. If no information is there, you may contact the author and find the status. It would be more reasonable to handle each language on a one-by-one case basis for your needs due to the amount of work in trying to categorize all languages.
In the future, if the author explicitly states the language is open source, I will add some annotation to denote it.
Yes, what I'm looking for is a 100% open source tool chain. As you rightly point out, trying to find that out from this list as it is currently organized is a huge amount of work. And as you point out it will require contacting authors -- it could take days. Bottom line -- there are a huge number of processors out there that I can use if I felt like it. My time is very limited. I'm not going to go on a major research expedition just to decide if I should consider one of them -- life is too short. 100% open source tool chain is a major qualifying criteria for any processor that I choose. For many processors, I can answer that question in two minutes of googling. Not for the Propeller.
When the propeller first came out, I was quite interested in it. I was even given a development system, gratis. I gave it away the next day, after I found out that the Propeller had undocumented interfaces. As I understand it, the proprietary interfaces have now been openly documented, so it's worth a 2nd look. I wonder how many design wins Parallax flushed down the toilet with their bizarre attitude? From 1980 until 2001 I worked as a CPU designer -- nobody else ever had that strange attitude. (In fact, one of the things that I find interesting about the Propeller is that it reminds me greatly of the CDC 6600 peripheral processor complex that CDC came out with in 1959... it was a great idea then, and still is. I worked at CDC among other places.)
I wonder if Catalina might satisfy this requirement?
This thread a Sticky? No, we already get to see it enough as it is.
Yes you are right. I forgot - Catalina shells out to Homespun and Homespun is not fully open source.
Sorry, I bumped the thread again. Soon there will be more pages to this thread than there are floors in Humanoido's Tower of Power
-Phil
We are interested in knowing the open source status of all languages and their related elements so any contributed information posted here has potential to be incorporated into the list. The existing list and new posts will be updated with open source status when the information is made known.
BTW, Heater's ZOG thread has 47 pages. You'll need to build your own machine with floors to keep up with that thread!
ftp://ftp.propeller-chip.com/PropC3/Apps/Mike_Green/C3%20Sphinx%20FemtoBasic%202010-12-05/FemtoSph.spin
PSC Propeller FemtoBasic by Mike Green
BCX Basic by Dr_Acula
XBASIC by David Betz
fb TandyBasic in Spin by Tomas Rokicki
(Extended Color BASIC 1.0 by Tandy)