That's it.. No more Propplug/USB connection required..
All you'll need is an Ethernet connection, SD, and a copy of PropDOS.
That just seems a bit (humourously) awry to me.. read it like this.
You no longer need a $25 USB/Serial converter to program your propeller. You now need an SD card (consuming 5 pins), an ethernet MAC (consuming more SPI pins), associated magnetics, an RJ45 cable, a spare ethernet socket to connect it to, and a PC to run the software (which you can access over a network) to enable you to compile your software, plus a TV and Keyboard to enable you to edit it.
It just made me laugh, that's all [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Disclaimer for the humour impaired : This was not meant as any form of criticism either direct or implied, it's a joke joyce. (Minimum three month subscription at $10 per month applies, see box for details)
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"VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
You still don't get it.
Think of this as step 1, proof of concept.
Steps 2 to n will be demontrating how a SOAP api will interact with the Prop.
This is an intelligence amplifier for the Prop, allowing Desktop or Mainframe interactions with a microprocessor.
SOAP transactions have been clocked at multiple transactions per second at my Wachovia lab.
Always
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 5/25/2009 11:44:50 AM GMT
James Michael Huselton said...
BradC, You still don't get it.
I think he does, it's just the humour in the notion - "I've gone off grid and now generate my own electricity, saving me a fortune, and you can do the same; all you need is a nuclear power plant in your back yard".
Then again, seeing your maybe it's me that's not getting it.
No, no.. I do get it, honest... I made several comments to mitigate my post from the humour impaired, but you appear to have safely negotiated all those and made it through the woods, missing all the trees and made it through to the other side [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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"VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
I want everyone to proceed with developing compilers, memory access, tools, etc.
But this is a parallel path that MAY provide some additional methods to our toolkit.
As Scotty said, "I think this is exciting!".
OBC and I are just experimenting. No need to feel threatened.
Check my posting history. Enough humor there to negate my "humor impaired" stigma.
p.s. I hope that you realize that you and Hippy are programming sky gods and I hope to be like you when I grow up.
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 5/25/2009 1:39:19 PM GMT
He gets it.. and so do I. No one needs feel threatened.
This whole project wouldn't have been possible without Mpark (editor), BradC (BSTC), and Harrison (TCP/IP & http client code) -- All I did was start glueing resources togeher. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Can't promise it will stay up, but if you want to try it from my Apache server
running on my development box, it's IP address is: 71.50.219.78
Set it in the remote_compiler.spin and it should work.
At the moment is has the standard object set from the Propeller Tool loaded,
so if you want to use TV_TEXT, etc in your OBJ it will work.
Just found an issue with ED. I can't seem to get it to load copied .spin files
from my windows machine. Must be some translation issues.. Tracking it down.
No issues with creating files on the prop and bringing them into Windows.
Oldbitcollector said...
Just found an issue with ED. I can't seem to get it to load copied .spin files
from my windows machine. Must be some translation issues.. Tracking it down.
I'd lay odds it's a Unicode issue. I'd be _very_ surprised if your propeller editor can cope with UTF-16 files [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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"VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
hinv said...
Pretty soon you will have a network operating system for it so you can fetch binaries and files off the internet and run them on your proputer!
Shhhhh! You're giving away part of my "evil" plan.. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Quick update on .spin file compatibility using ED.
For some (yet unknown) reason ED isn't handling .spin files without saving them as text files. Works find if you convert them first.. Still looking into this.
If you compare an offending .spin file to its corresponding text file, is the former about twice as big as the latter?
That's the process I'm in right now.. It looks like .spin files have a 0 character every other letter. I've managed to fix that here easily enough. Now I'm hunting down an extra CR.
When I'm finished you should be able to open ".spin" files (a bit more slowly than .txt) and then save them out as .txt with ED.
I have been thinking about this concept and what its usefulness could be.·
It would be a great thing if the prop tool was online with ppl collaborating.·The objects w/in the IDE could be, and ideally·would be added to regularly and well categorized with the eventual goal of creating visual building blocks able to be layered together with timing separations and variable creation - maybe even a chip picture with radio/checkboxes around it that would enable one to control i/o, its timing and/or frequency.
Because of the Propeller's easy object integration and the huge mental powers that could potentially be brought to bear from this multi-talented community the creation of an infinite quantity of resources (bit of a stretch, but it sounds good) could be created for simple program assembly and an even·more rapid development phase than what is currently possible.
Maybe cloud computing is an apt term for this project. Not·because of an old cliche and·its conotations, but because that is where our heads are. (behind our propellers)·
BADHABIT: Since Parallax would not open it up, others such as BradC (BST), mpark (Homespun), Praxis and others have made alternatives. Now the horse has bolted, I think it is too late for Parallax, even though they have just been inspired to make an update to PropTool.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Links to other interesting threads:
Indeed, but it appears to be a perfect community project in a community that has an immense knowledge backing along with the capability to physically assemble the beast. Almost everyone here has a specialty in one of the many classes of function with a varying degree of knowledge and capability, ranging from expert to not so expert, in many of the other functions that tie in to their specialiity. It is with this backing that this project could go forward.
If·the Fathers of the underlying technology have not the desire to see this to it's ultimate completion, then it is up to the community behind it to take up where they cannot/will not/have not(et al..), in order for the community to reach it's ultimate capacity in bringing to life the ultimate. I would suspect it is not true and they do wish for there to be the maximum capabilities for their creations as well as allowing them to do, and have done,·what can be did or done while spending the least amount of time·and go far beyond what any other has done or gone,·and the continued going on of the doing and going as long as doing and going on are things that need to be done.
Already it has been proved by them that they are willing to lend resources·and technical vision to many other esteemed undertakings, so·one shouldn't go so far as to say that they have no desire to extend their product/s, but it just may not seem like an econimcally sound idea to throw extensive rNd monies at something that they are not sure if everyone wants.
BH
P.S. I honestly think that here is·no manly undertaking that this community could not do or exceed at,- from damn building to atom splitting. If the community were to continue to thrive and continue in it's endeavours, that would be Parallax' ongoing legacy.
@BH, I've started some "graphical" tools this year. When I read "Visual Building Blocks" some how dragging lines from one box to another comes to mind. I've seen a "C builder" program that makes widgets for "if, else" etc... statements. I'm not sure how useful this kind of thing is for anyone beyond the "what's an if statement?" phase though. Maybe you can give more concrete examples of thing you would like to see?
It seems this part of the discussion belongs in another thread.
Im not really sure how it would evolve, and perhaps this portion of the discussion begs for a·new thread, but I think that eventually it may be possible to create. I'm only talking about it·in this one·because this is where the foundation has been lain. There is another thread that JMH started where the idea was created, so it could have gone there too. I'm not sure if this is anywhere near his original idea, but it is where that idea led me.
I'm not thinking·so much visual like VB where you drag boxes around and make buttons and such(although that functionality for gui making would be insane), but perhaps short segments of code that do one thing or another, then a block that ties them together. In my mind it is something like an object exchange that is more of a library exchange. The library would have anything from full blown objects to small grabbable snippets that could be dropped into place. Users would still need to know the underlying language, but implementation would be faster. Such an arrangement would enable users to quickly develop their code with a minimum of typing and know that the code that was plugged in is going to work as efficiently as possible in the situation. Usually visual type things add bloat and sluggishness, but I think that if it evolves from plug in code to plug in units much of that inefficiency that usually comes with that could be avoided.
Cluso99 said...
BADHABIT: Since Parallax would not open it up, others such as BradC (BST), mpark (Homespun), Praxis and others have made alternatives. Now the horse has bolted, I think it is too late for Parallax, even though they have just been inspired to make an update to PropTool.
I'm not quite sure I'd see it like that. Parallax have a very firm position on releasing their PC based code. What Parallax did to enable my work was release the source code for the bootloader and interpreter.
Now I can't see the view "it's too late for Parallax" as whichever way things go, they win. Parallax sells hardware, and the software we have developed all helps enable people to use their hardware.
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"VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
BADHABIT said...
I would suspect it is not true and they do wish for there to be the maximum capabilities for their creations as well as allowing them to do, and have done, what can be did or done while spending the least amount of time and go far beyond what any other has done or gone, and the continued going on of the doing and going as long as doing and going on are things that need to be done.
Err, what? I think I agree with you but this is giving me headache[noparse]:)[/noparse]
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Comments
Thanks!
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
(Couldn't have gotten this far without Harrison)
I'm smoothing out wrinkles and laying out some documentation if others want to try this.
I'll post some code within a day or so.
That's it.. No more Propplug/USB connection required..
All you'll need is an Ethernet connection, SD, and a copy of PropDOS.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
Post Edited (Oldbitcollector) : 5/25/2009 5:31:37 AM GMT
That just seems a bit (humourously) awry to me.. read it like this.
You no longer need a $25 USB/Serial converter to program your propeller. You now need an SD card (consuming 5 pins), an ethernet MAC (consuming more SPI pins), associated magnetics, an RJ45 cable, a spare ethernet socket to connect it to, and a PC to run the software (which you can access over a network) to enable you to compile your software, plus a TV and Keyboard to enable you to edit it.
It just made me laugh, that's all [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Disclaimer for the humour impaired : This was not meant as any form of criticism either direct or implied, it's a joke joyce. (Minimum three month subscription at $10 per month applies, see box for details)
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
Heh..
Yeah, It does read like a "crazy-man" doesn't it. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Love it!
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
You still don't get it.
Think of this as step 1, proof of concept.
Steps 2 to n will be demontrating how a SOAP api will interact with the Prop.
This is an intelligence amplifier for the Prop, allowing Desktop or Mainframe interactions with a microprocessor.
SOAP transactions have been clocked at multiple transactions per second at my Wachovia lab.
Always
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 5/25/2009 11:44:50 AM GMT
A simple tutorial and code examples: www.codeproject.com/KB/webservices/webservice_tungDbProxy.aspx?fid=435799&df=90&mpp=25&noise=3&sort=Position&view=Quick&select=2125978
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 5/25/2009 11:57:24 AM GMT
I think he does, it's just the humour in the notion - "I've gone off grid and now generate my own electricity, saving me a fortune, and you can do the same; all you need is a nuclear power plant in your back yard".
Then again, seeing your
No, no.. I do get it, honest... I made several comments to mitigate my post from the humour impaired, but you appear to have safely negotiated all those and made it through the woods, missing all the trees and made it through to the other side [noparse]:)[/noparse]
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
But this is a parallel path that MAY provide some additional methods to our toolkit.
As Scotty said, "I think this is exciting!".
OBC and I are just experimenting. No need to feel threatened.
Check my posting history. Enough humor there to negate my "humor impaired" stigma.
p.s. I hope that you realize that you and Hippy are programming sky gods and I hope to be like you when I grow up.
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JMH
Post Edited (James Michael Huselton) : 5/25/2009 1:39:19 PM GMT
This whole project wouldn't have been possible without Mpark (editor), BradC (BSTC), and Harrison (TCP/IP & http client code) -- All I did was start glueing resources togeher. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
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JMH
(At least what I'll share for now... Come to UPEW to see the rest.)
If you get your own copy up and running, please post to the thread.
I'm curious how my instructions will pan out.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
running on my development box, it's IP address is: 71.50.219.78
Set it in the remote_compiler.spin and it should work.
At the moment is has the standard object set from the Propeller Tool loaded,
so if you want to use TV_TEXT, etc in your OBJ it will work.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
Post Edited (Oldbitcollector) : 5/26/2009 5:04:50 AM GMT
That must be a really special server.
Just found an issue with ED. I can't seem to get it to load copied .spin files
from my windows machine. Must be some translation issues.. Tracking it down.
No issues with creating files on the prop and bringing them into Windows.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
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JMH
I'd lay odds it's a Unicode issue. I'd be _very_ surprised if your propeller editor can cope with UTF-16 files [noparse]:)[/noparse]
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"VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
Shhhhh! You're giving away part of my "evil" plan.. [noparse]:)[/noparse]
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
For some (yet unknown) reason ED isn't handling .spin files without saving them as text files. Works find if you convert them first.. Still looking into this.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
If you compare an offending .spin file to its corresponding text file, is the former about twice as big as the latter?
That's the process I'm in right now.. It looks like .spin files have a 0 character every other letter. I've managed to fix that here easily enough. Now I'm hunting down an extra CR.
When I'm finished you should be able to open ".spin" files (a bit more slowly than .txt) and then save them out as .txt with ED.
OBC
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
Now detects & imports .spin files on load (recommend calling them .spn)
The translation of .spin takes a little longer, (as expected) but works fine.
OBC
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New to the Propeller?
Visit the: The Propeller Pages @ Warranty Void.
It would be a great thing if the prop tool was online with ppl collaborating.·The objects w/in the IDE could be, and ideally·would be added to regularly and well categorized with the eventual goal of creating visual building blocks able to be layered together with timing separations and variable creation - maybe even a chip picture with radio/checkboxes around it that would enable one to control i/o, its timing and/or frequency.
Because of the Propeller's easy object integration and the huge mental powers
Maybe cloud computing is an apt term for this project. Not·because of an old cliche and·its conotations, but because that is where our heads are. (behind our propellers)·
BH
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps: TriBladeProp, SixBladeProp, website (Multiple propeller pcbs)
· Single Board Computer:·3 Propeller ICs·and a·TriBladeProp board (ZiCog Z80 Emulator)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators: Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100 (Index)
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz·· MultiBladeProp is: www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
If·the Fathers of the underlying technology have not the desire to see this to it's ultimate completion, then it is up to the community behind it to take up where they cannot/will not/have not(et al..), in order for the community to reach it's ultimate capacity in bringing to life the ultimate. I would suspect it is not true and they do wish for there to be the maximum capabilities for their creations as well as allowing them to do, and have done,·what can be did or done while spending the least amount of time·and go far beyond what any other has done or gone,·and the continued going on of the doing and going as long as doing and going on are things that need to be done.
Already it has been proved by them that they are willing to lend resources·and technical vision to many other esteemed undertakings, so·one shouldn't go so far as to say that they have no desire to extend their product/s, but it just may not seem like an econimcally sound idea to throw extensive rNd monies at something that they are not sure if everyone wants.
BH
P.S. I honestly think that here is·no manly undertaking that this community could not do or exceed at,- from damn building to atom splitting. If the community were to continue to thrive and continue in it's endeavours, that would be Parallax' ongoing legacy.
It seems this part of the discussion belongs in another thread.
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--Steve
Propalyzer: Propeller PC Logic Analyzer
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=788230
I'm not thinking·so much visual like VB where you drag boxes around and make buttons and such(although that functionality for gui making would be insane), but perhaps short segments of code that do one thing or another, then a block that ties them together. In my mind it is something like an object exchange that is more of a library exchange. The library would have anything from full blown objects to small grabbable snippets that could be dropped into place. Users would still need to know the underlying language, but implementation would be faster. Such an arrangement would enable users to quickly develop their code with a minimum of typing and know that the code that was plugged in is going to work as efficiently as possible in the situation. Usually visual type things add bloat and sluggishness, but I think that if it evolves from plug in code to plug in units much of that inefficiency that usually comes with that could be avoided.
BH
I'm not quite sure I'd see it like that. Parallax have a very firm position on releasing their PC based code. What Parallax did to enable my work was release the source code for the bootloader and interpreter.
Now I can't see the view "it's too late for Parallax" as whichever way things go, they win. Parallax sells hardware, and the software we have developed all helps enable people to use their hardware.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
Err, what? I think I agree with you but this is giving me headache[noparse]:)[/noparse]
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For me, the past is not over yet.