I haven't really studied your schematic so hard but for sure emulating the 8080/8088 bus as such is not something I require.
Whilst being able to transfer blocks as fast as possible has its place I'm sure BUT it seems to me that for emulators the most important thing is to get random access as fast as possible.
So whatever the RAM interface is please be sure it can be driven with out any extraneous shifts and moves.
So shouldn't the address be put out on P0-P15 (no shift required) and the the Data on P0-P7 (no shifts required)?. Of course with a latch output in between for to freeze the low bits of address.
Hmm starts to look like the 8080 bus...
Having a latch on the high address may enable fast sequential access within a block but that does not seem to be so useful in an emulator.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Heater:
I think for the emulator you will use the unlatched Blades 2 & 5. Their addresses are contiguous and are required to be shifted 11 bits, but this is better (=faster) than having to place the lower address bits out, strobe a latch, output the upper address bits, and change the direction for reads. I think you may be able to keep the PC (program counter in the outa register and increment directly there). If not, you can still keep the PC address shifted 11 bits and add a long (fixed to $800) to increment. You will find it faster to keep the dira lines fixed in the read position and just change the lower 8 bits to output when writing to the ram and immediately placing them back to input after the write. This is because there are more reads statistically than writes (because program fetches are reads, this is skewed heavily in reads favour).
Blades 1 & 3 are intended to be used with latches and SRAM for video ram circuits. Blade 1 (or Blades 3, 4 or 6) needs to be used as a controlling Blade.
Hope this makes sense
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The wiring error on Blades 2 & 5 is minor and is only a problem if the 2MByte SRAM is used. The error is in the A19 and A20 connections and of course the missing pin 1 (nc) for the larger footprint. I had intended tying -CE low (-OE already tied low) to use this for A20. However, on reflection, this is probably not possible as there will be data direction conflicts. So, if the 2MByte SRAM is used, it will only be possible to use 1MByte of it and will result in a couple of cuts and wires. However, two 512KByte SRAMs will work correctly, including coexisting with I2C eeprom OR SPI flash (which can be used instead for SD/microSD) offboard.
Just checking if I can squeeze the Farnell microSD connector #1568092 onto the edges of the pcb (top and bottom edges for Blades 2 & 5). The microSD card sits out over the edge as the connector is only 5.5x11.4mm and SMT. It mabe possible to place them all on the lower edge of the pcb. Alternately, I may just place a couple of them there with with pads for wiring.
You will still need to wire the Reset, SI and SO of each prop (Blade) used between props for comms and programming. There are pads (or pin stakes if you fit them for the propplug connections) to make these wires. If you hardwire, I suggest under the pcb. All Blades may have I2C eeproms fitted.
All-in-all, the Blades are very flexible and can operate standalone, or connected together as you wish.
Delivery: Waiting to see how many people want. Cole and Quantum are the only ones so far to step forward. Obviously that affects price. I will confirm pricing before ordering.
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As far as I am aware, the schematic is only missing the global 5.00MHz Xtal Oscillator. Currently I am working out a materials list and where they can be obtained. Trying to source from as few suppliers as possible because of postage costs, so they may not be the cheapest, but will be a start. I will post this shortly. If you can find them from a better source, please let me know. Currently looking at Parallax, Mouser, Digikey and Farnell(Australia).
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Attached is a list of parts available from Digikey, Mouser and Farnell(Australia). There are various options, so not all parts are required. The pcb is laid out for the 5.00MHz 14x9.8mm Xtal Oscillator. Individual Xtals can be used - just cut the via.
Note particularly the microSD connector 1568092 from Farnell. It is really small and neat · (No provision currently on the pcb)
Thanks Quantum - you just need to know where to look including company names.
I have revised the microSD socked to the fully SMT version - p/n to be updated in the post above soon.
I am awaiting my first 2 pcbs due Thurdsay. Peter J is getting them made on a large panel with his pcbs. He added some nice bits after I ran out of time - thanks Peter
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First PCB due Thursday. Peter is going to express post it to me as I have to go to Sydney (800km) as my daughter-in-law is in labour... First grandchild coming
As soon as I can checkout the pcb I can get some made for you all. I think that totals about 10 pcbs required. I can do 4 or 6 on a panel.
I have been laying a strip 1" high to go along the top edge with a mix of PropPlug equivalents, microSD connectors, proper 5V & 3V3 power, etc. Provided it doesn't impact the cost much I will add it in. Peter had added some bits including microSD and 5V, so will have to see what he managed to squeeze in.
I have some ideas for program loading and comms between the Blades. Also, because one prop is basically dedicated to PC comms and loading the others, I have thought it may produce the clocking for the others. After all, it's only 5.00 or 6.00MHz. This can be done by 1 cog, and then can use a standard 5MHz xtal. Just a thought - cheaper solution and we require this controlling prop anyway, so may as well use it for all it's worth
So my thoughts are:
Blade 1: Controlling prop, has kbd and mouse if reqd.
Blade 2: Runs emulation software or large programs, has microSD, 1 512Kx8 SRAM (no latching)
Blade 3: -spare- (all I/O's to header)
Blade 4: VGA or TV hires, with 512Kx8 SRAM, A0-10 directly connected, latched A11-18.
Blade 5: -spare- (can have 1 or 2 512Kx8 SRAMs, no latching) - (same as Blade 2)
Blade 6: -spare- (all I/O's to header)
I have ordered the following bits for my pcbs (thanks to Quantum, etc)
Future Electronics
AS6C4008-55PCN 512Kx8 SRAM $3.89 (why bother with 128Kx8 SRAM)
LM1117T-3.3/NOPB (TO220) $0.455
LM1117T-5.0/NOPB (TO220) $0.455
LM1117DT-3.3/NOPB (TO252) $0.42
LM1117DT-5.0/NOPB (TO252) $0.42
MM74HC573N Fairchild $0.47 (Fairchild seen to be faster)
Digikey
X410-ND Xtal 5.00MHz HC49US $0.58
300-8374-1-ND Xtal Osc 5.00MHz 14x9.8mm $2.63
SE2812CT-ND Xtal Osc 6.00MHz 10.5x5.8mm $4.38 (pcb not laid out to use this)
W25X80AVDAIZ-ND SPI 8Mbit Flash 3V3 DIP8 Dual Rate $2.11
AT24C512B-PU-ND I2C 512Kbit Eeprom $1.74
AT24C1025-PU-ND I2C 1Mbit EEprom $3.91
P8X32A-D40-ND Propeller $12.99
768-1007-1-ND FT232RL SSOP28 $4.50
3M5607CT-ND microSD SMT $1.23
H2961CT-ND USB B mini SMT $1.18
So, expect to hear something from me mid next week.
Anyone else interested in one+ pcbs, let me know asap.
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Blades 1, 2 & 3 are almost duplicated in Blades 4, 5 & 6. The pcb could be cut down the middle if required without much loss.
So, if only using 3 Blades (you then have two sets of 3)...
I thought using Prop 3 as the "controller" with the PC interface, reset lines to the other 2 Blades, 2 lines for xtal out (probably only require 1), 2 lines for I2C eeprom, 4 lines to SPI Flash (could multipurpose some of these - no provision on this prop for the SPI), plus 2 lines for comms to Blades 1 & 2 (which are connected via pullups to P30 & P31). These comms lines handle code loading, so no I2C required on Blades 1 & 2 !!!
Communication between props could be done with pullups on P30 & P31 as tristate drivers. No clocking is necessary as the oscillators are common
I was thinking that we could shift out a 32bit data word in 2 instructions per bit (can use counters to do this). BUT, I am thinking about receiving. I can do it in 3 instructions per bit and (posssibly 2, especially if input is P31) - all 32 bits inline coded.
I can't see how I could use the counters to assemble the bits (would be better). I haven't played with them. Anyone have any ideas???
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Cluso99 said...
I was thinking that we could shift out a 32bit data word in 2 instructions per bit (can use counters to do this). BUT, I am thinking about receiving. I can do it in 3 instructions per bit and (posssibly 2, especially if input is P31) - all 32 bits inline coded.
I can't see how I could use the counters to assemble the bits (would be better). I haven't played with them. Anyone have any ideas???
Not exactly counter-only but what about having a start bit which gets a receiver cog out of waitpxx, then shift FRQx (preloaded with 0x80000000) down 32 times (i.e. 32 instructions). Then the input pin enables a counter which collects FRQx at that time. Haven't tried it yet but should work.
Sometimes I think that CPUs have a sense of humor too. They like to play little tricks on you and watch you tear your hair out over something really really simple.
I wrote a CRC16 routine yesterday and it kept coming back with rubbish, I was doing everything right, right?
No, because I finally realized I was initializing the crc to -1 just as I should but it was wrong because it was a long and ended up shifting in 1's on a right shift instead of 0's. Oh, the humanity!
Yes Jim, and I've been doing it for just as long too, too long. I shouldn't have any hair left by now but I think it's all those hair-raising experiences compensating for it.
The W25X... is available in up to 64Mbit versions, just that a good price point was 4Mbit. It can be read 2 bits at a time
The AT25DF321-SU (8pin DIP ??? WARNING: THE DATASHEET SHOWS THIS AS SOIC8) 32Mb is $3.14 from Newark. The AT25DF321 is the preferred part replacing the AT26DF321.
So when are the xGB versions coming?? .... and how long is it going to take to read it in??
I designed for all through hole (except the xtal osc which I have now resolved differently). It's not my favourite, but I wanted to make the pcb for general use which includes those who haven't been exposed to SMT before. It also makes it easier to add bits later with through hole.
I must be a little greyer than Jim (Quantum) and Peter - been doing hw and sw for almost 40 years, though not so much in the last 10 :-(
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Comments
I don't understand what you are saying. The -OE pin can be tied low which is what I have done.
So I only require -CE and -WE plus the latch signal LE.
In my circuit, if you want to use 4096 byte blocks, you could use A0-A11 and just latch A12... (required another pin)
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Whilst being able to transfer blocks as fast as possible has its place I'm sure BUT it seems to me that for emulators the most important thing is to get random access as fast as possible.
So whatever the RAM interface is please be sure it can be driven with out any extraneous shifts and moves.
So shouldn't the address be put out on P0-P15 (no shift required) and the the Data on P0-P7 (no shifts required)?. Of course with a latch output in between for to freeze the low bits of address.
Hmm starts to look like the 8080 bus...
Having a latch on the high address may enable fast sequential access within a block but that does not seem to be so useful in an emulator.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
I think for the emulator you will use the unlatched Blades 2 & 5. Their addresses are contiguous and are required to be shifted 11 bits, but this is better (=faster) than having to place the lower address bits out, strobe a latch, output the upper address bits, and change the direction for reads. I think you may be able to keep the PC (program counter in the outa register and increment directly there). If not, you can still keep the PC address shifted 11 bits and add a long (fixed to $800) to increment. You will find it faster to keep the dira lines fixed in the read position and just change the lower 8 bits to output when writing to the ram and immediately placing them back to input after the write. This is because there are more reads statistically than writes (because program fetches are reads, this is skewed heavily in reads favour).
Blades 1 & 3 are intended to be used with latches and SRAM for video ram circuits. Blade 1 (or Blades 3, 4 or 6) needs to be used as a controlling Blade.
Hope this makes sense
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My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
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For me, the past is not over yet.
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JMH
Just checking if I can squeeze the Farnell microSD connector #1568092 onto the edges of the pcb (top and bottom edges for Blades 2 & 5). The microSD card sits out over the edge as the connector is only 5.5x11.4mm and SMT. It mabe possible to place them all on the lower edge of the pcb. Alternately, I may just place a couple of them there with with pads for wiring.
You will still need to wire the Reset, SI and SO of each prop (Blade) used between props for comms and programming. There are pads (or pin stakes if you fit them for the propplug connections) to make these wires. If you hardwire, I suggest under the pcb. All Blades may have I2C eeproms fitted.
All-in-all, the Blades are very flexible and can operate standalone, or connected together as you wish.
Delivery: Waiting to see how many people want. Cole and Quantum are the only ones so far to step forward. Obviously that affects price. I will confirm pricing before ordering.
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My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
I emailed you for 2 of them
thanks,
Ale
I emailed you for 3 of them
thanks,
James Michael Huselton (JMH)
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JMH
Schematics are posted here and on my website
www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
As far as I am aware, the schematic is only missing the global 5.00MHz Xtal Oscillator. Currently I am working out a materials list and where they can be obtained. Trying to source from as few suppliers as possible because of postage costs, so they may not be the cheapest, but will be a start. I will post this shortly. If you can find them from a better source, please let me know. Currently looking at Parallax, Mouser, Digikey and Farnell(Australia).
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Links to other interesting threads:
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My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Note particularly the microSD connector 1568092 from Farnell. It is really small and neat
Some additions:
www.jameco.com 1927617 AS6C4008·512Kx8 DIP32 $5.99 exstk
www.digikey.com 3M5607CT-ND microSD conn. SMT·$1.23 $1.033/10 exstk (3M 2908-05WB-MG)
www.digikey.com H2960CT-ND USB B Mini SMT $1.18 $0.8524/25 exstk (different to mouser 538-51387-0578)
Delete Farnell 1642036 (not pin compatible)
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My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 2/9/2009 11:10:37 AM GMT
Jameco have 1927617 AS6C4008-55PCN SRAM 512Kx8 55nS 3V3 DIP32 $5.99 ea exstk
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My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
I bought last week 4 AS6C4008 by www.jameco.com for 5.99$
Regards
Gianni
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Future Electronics
(Top of page)
Mfg. Part # In Stock Buy Unit Price (US$) Pkg Qty
ALLIANCE MEMORY INC AS6C4008-55PCN Yes Buy 1+: 3.89 1
ALLIANCE MEMORY INC AS6C4008-55SIN Yes Buy 1+: 2.64 1
ALLIANCE MEMORY INC AS6C4008-55SINTR Yes Buy 1000+: 3.09 1000
ALLIANCE MEMORY INC AS6C4008-55STIN Yes Buy 1+: 2.99 1
ALLIANCE MEMORY INC AS6C4008-55STINTR No 1500+: 3.58 1500
ALLIANCE MEMORY INC AS6C4008-55TIN No 1+: 3.58 1
Query finished in 0 seconds
America II Electronics
(Top of page)
Mfg. Part # Stock
ALLIANCE SEMICONDUCTOR AS6C4008-55SIN 10
Query finished in 0 seconds
Jameco Electronics
(Top of page)
Part # Description Jameco # Stock Price
AS6C4008-55PCN IC,AS6C4008-55PCN,DIP-32 LP SRAM,55NS,512K X 8,2.7-5.5V Catalog 1927617 Buy 146 1-9: 5.99, 10-99: 5.39, 100-: 4.95
AS6C4008-55SIN IC,AS6C4008-55SIN,SOP-32 LP SRAM,55NS,512K X 8,2.7-5.5V Catalog 1927625 Buy In Stock 1-9: 5.49, 10-99: 4.89, 100-: 4.39
AS6C4008-55TIN IC,AS6C4008-55TIN,TSOP-32 LP SRAM,55NS,512K X 8,2.7-5.5V Catalog 1927641 Buy In Stock 1-: 2.25
AS6C4008-55STIN IC,AS6C4008-55STIN,STSOP-32 LP SRAM,55NS,512K X 8,2.7-5.5V Catalog 1927650 Buy In Stock 1-: 2.25
Query finished in 0 seconds
Done.
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JMH
I have revised the microSD socked to the fully SMT version - p/n to be updated in the post above soon.
I am awaiting my first 2 pcbs due Thurdsay. Peter J is getting them made on a large panel with his pcbs. He added some nice bits after I ran out of time - thanks Peter
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I'm in for a board. Email sent.
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Aka: CosmicBob
As soon as I can checkout the pcb I can get some made for you all. I think that totals about 10 pcbs required. I can do 4 or 6 on a panel.
I have been laying a strip 1" high to go along the top edge with a mix of PropPlug equivalents, microSD connectors, proper 5V & 3V3 power, etc. Provided it doesn't impact the cost much I will add it in. Peter had added some bits including microSD and 5V, so will have to see what he managed to squeeze in.
I have some ideas for program loading and comms between the Blades. Also, because one prop is basically dedicated to PC comms and loading the others, I have thought it may produce the clocking for the others. After all, it's only 5.00 or 6.00MHz. This can be done by 1 cog, and then can use a standard 5MHz xtal. Just a thought - cheaper solution and we require this controlling prop anyway, so may as well use it for all it's worth
So my thoughts are:
Blade 1: Controlling prop, has kbd and mouse if reqd.
Blade 2: Runs emulation software or large programs, has microSD, 1 512Kx8 SRAM (no latching)
Blade 3: -spare- (all I/O's to header)
Blade 4: VGA or TV hires, with 512Kx8 SRAM, A0-10 directly connected, latched A11-18.
Blade 5: -spare- (can have 1 or 2 512Kx8 SRAMs, no latching) - (same as Blade 2)
Blade 6: -spare- (all I/O's to header)
I have ordered the following bits for my pcbs (thanks to Quantum, etc)
Future Electronics
AS6C4008-55PCN 512Kx8 SRAM $3.89 (why bother with 128Kx8 SRAM)
LM1117T-3.3/NOPB (TO220) $0.455
LM1117T-5.0/NOPB (TO220) $0.455
LM1117DT-3.3/NOPB (TO252) $0.42
LM1117DT-5.0/NOPB (TO252) $0.42
MM74HC573N Fairchild $0.47 (Fairchild seen to be faster)
Digikey
X410-ND Xtal 5.00MHz HC49US $0.58
300-8374-1-ND Xtal Osc 5.00MHz 14x9.8mm $2.63
SE2812CT-ND Xtal Osc 6.00MHz 10.5x5.8mm $4.38 (pcb not laid out to use this)
W25X80AVDAIZ-ND SPI 8Mbit Flash 3V3 DIP8 Dual Rate $2.11
AT24C512B-PU-ND I2C 512Kbit Eeprom $1.74
AT24C1025-PU-ND I2C 1Mbit EEprom $3.91
P8X32A-D40-ND Propeller $12.99
768-1007-1-ND FT232RL SSOP28 $4.50
3M5607CT-ND microSD SMT $1.23
H2961CT-ND USB B mini SMT $1.18
So, expect to hear something from me mid next week.
Anyone else interested in one+ pcbs, let me know asap.
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My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Blades 1, 2 & 3 are almost duplicated in Blades 4, 5 & 6. The pcb could be cut down the middle if required without much loss.
So, if only using 3 Blades (you then have two sets of 3)...
I thought using Prop 3 as the "controller" with the PC interface, reset lines to the other 2 Blades, 2 lines for xtal out (probably only require 1), 2 lines for I2C eeprom, 4 lines to SPI Flash (could multipurpose some of these - no provision on this prop for the SPI), plus 2 lines for comms to Blades 1 & 2 (which are connected via pullups to P30 & P31). These comms lines handle code loading, so no I2C required on Blades 1 & 2 !!!
Communication between props could be done with pullups on P30 & P31 as tristate drivers. No clocking is necessary as the oscillators are common
I was thinking that we could shift out a 32bit data word in 2 instructions per bit (can use counters to do this). BUT, I am thinking about receiving. I can do it in 3 instructions per bit and (posssibly 2, especially if input is P31) - all 32 bits inline coded.
I can't see how I could use the counters to assemble the bits (would be better). I haven't played with them. Anyone have any ideas???
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My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Propeller DEMO : (14.5 Meg Baud) High Speed Prop-to-Prop Serial Communication
http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=25&m=233212
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My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
www.futurlec.com/Mini_FLASH.shtml
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JMH
AT26DF321-SU 8-pin SOIC 32Mbit SPI Flash
$3.70 one off from Newark
YES!
I design these into my pcbs now alongside the eeprom. It shares the SCL and SDA and just needs a separate CS pin.
*Peter*
I didn't get the connection between Ray Rodrick and Peter Jakacki until I did some sleuthing.
The place is booming with bloomin' Aussies!
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JMH
Post Edited (Quantum) : 2/12/2009 7:38:03 AM GMT
Sometimes I think that CPUs have a sense of humor too. They like to play little tricks on you and watch you tear your hair out over something really really simple.
I wrote a CRC16 routine yesterday and it kept coming back with rubbish, I was doing everything right, right?
No, because I finally realized I was initializing the crc to -1 just as I should but it was wrong because it was a long and ended up shifting in 1's on a right shift instead of 0's. Oh, the humanity!
*Peter*
Been doing programming for 30 years - God help me!
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JMH
Live long and prosper
*Peter*
The AT25DF321-SU (8pin DIP ??? WARNING: THE DATASHEET SHOWS THIS AS SOIC8) 32Mb is $3.14 from Newark. The AT25DF321 is the preferred part replacing the AT26DF321.
So when are the xGB versions coming?? .... and how long is it going to take to read it in??
I designed for all through hole (except the xtal osc which I have now resolved differently). It's not my favourite, but I wanted to make the pcb for general use which includes those who haven't been exposed to SMT before. It also makes it easier to add bits later with through hole.
I must be a little greyer than Jim (Quantum) and Peter - been doing hw and sw for almost 40 years, though not so much in the last 10 :-(
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
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My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 2/12/2009 11:11:59 AM GMT