Here is where I am up to with the layout. You will see it is incomplete and has not been verified. Currently it is 7"x5" without the power supply. However, you can get an idea of the duplicated sections.
You may notice there are two 54pin TSOP footprints (for SDRAM) but unfortunately I do not think that I can route the pins.
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Cluso;
I am thinking of the 2x20 connectors, with one daughterboard per socket. If they are socketed on the left and extend to the right and flying ~0.5-0.75" above the host board, it would be very useful to have a secure mounting point (or two) where the right end of the daughterboard could be fixed to the lower motherboard (something like the SpinStudio structure, but with the mechanical support being the motherboard, not the case). The daughterboard could extend over the VGA connector if necessary.
Could a grounded via be added behind the VGA pads to act as the support point for a stand-off ? Centred on the 2x20 connector would be ideal, but not necessary, as long as the supports are equivalent for the two daughterboards. I think that 4-40 is the norm for small standoffs ...
@mctrivia: I specifically did not want to go SMT. Maybe an SMT pcb later, but for now wanted everyone to be able to solder THole components as I see lots of people adding a "Blade" at a time as required. So, I wanted a high power general pcb.
@TreeLab: Thanks. The 2x40 (layed as 2x44) pin connectors are actually also wired as 2x20 also, with +3V on the top pair of pins and GND on the bottom pair, with 2x8 I/O rows. I wanted to make them Spin Studio compatible, but that wasn't possible in the space.
As you can see, I have not routed the power and ground yet. The idea is that power will be around the edge on the top layer and ground around the edge on the bottom layer. There will be mounting holes around the edge of the pcb (currently only lower right corner).
There is a link near the VGA connector, so that TV can be used instead using the same pins (different resistors required though) connecting to an RCA connector. I dont have the connectors for the PropPlug, nor SD/microSD on yet, nor any power regulator(s).
Currently the top right hand "Blade" is identical to the lower right, but that will have to change. I will remove the second VGA & TV connectors. There are two PS2 (keyboard & mouse) connectors, one above, one below the upper VGA & TV connectors.
Just thought I would post where I was up to.
FWIW, I don't have any specific use for all the "Blades", just want to be able to run hires graphics and an emulator - both requiring memory.
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why not ditch all on board periferals and just use spin studio compatible plugs for all non used pins. Then you could make your own sdram chip on spin studio layout. You may need to use more then 1 jack but that can easily be done by making the addapter to fit the spacing on your board. Would give you the most flexibility and let everyone use the plethera of adapters on ucontroler.com
I like the big headers (2x22) that if I understand correctly bring out all the pins and power. If someone wants to use SpinStudio boards, well there could be a 'break-out' daughterboard that plugs into the HexaBlade, that then distributes the I/O into SpinStudio connectors, with banks of 8 pins each. My only concern is that any daughterboards have a good mechanical mount and fastening to the motherboard.
I am using ExpressPCB software. My Protel software is interstate and I won't be there for another couple of weeks and I want the pcb back by then.
ExpressPCB is a bit pedestrian but quite usable.
Here is the connector pinouts - Blades #3 & #6 are identical.
I would really like it if you would support the Spin Studio socket. I have a number of cards for that board, including some custom ones I made. I was thinking about stacking them, but this could solve that problem.
A big thankyou to Peter J. (from the forum) who offered to place my pcb on a board he is prototyping today. It meant I had to relay the pcb in Protel over the weekend (and got no sleep last night). Peter has "poured" the power and ground planes on the board and tarted up the overlay. I really was running out of time so some things just didn't get done as I would have liked, but I am extremely happy.
I should have 2 pcbs back in 5 days to check the functionality.
Thanks also to Peter, here is a SixBladeProp logo and pics of the pcb.
Re Spin Studio connector - it is similar but not identical - you may be able to shoehorn a workable connector by track adds/cuts - I haven't had time to fully examine.
More info to come soon...
I will post a little more regarding having a quantity made as soon as I have verified the pcb.··
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Here is the section of the PCB for Blades 3 & 6. They are identical circuits. You will note the multi-footprint connector that I had described above.
Also, there is provision for a 24C256/512/1024 + 2x10K to be soldered under the pcb (you will need to cut the pins short and solder them from the underside of the pcb (top of the chips pins). All Blades have a PropPlug style pin stake header (or holes). The SI, SO and reset pins have not been wired anywhere - they will need to be wired to Blade #1 to designated pins on the underside of the pcb. I actually ran out of time, but am thinking this may be desirable anyway, as Blade 1 also contains options for the SRAM with a latch, so the reset pins could be placed on the latch for extra pins.
Blades 1, 2, 4 & 5 have provision for 24C256/512/1024 -or- SPI Flash 8Mb-64Mb (this footprint can be used for connecting to an external SD/microSD socket). There is NO SD/microSD footprint on the board· (no time or space)
There is one VGA connector and one TV connector. They are wired to Blade 4.·The·VGA and TV share common pins, so you can only use one or the other (as they require different resistors and 1 link for TV). However, Blade 1 contains the same resistor and link configuration, so it can be wired to the VGA and/or TV connector. The VGA and TV pins use P8-15 (not P16-23 as on the Proto Boards). The reason is to simplify software access to the SRAM.
Blade 1 is provided with a PropPlug RA·pin connector (for normally connecting to the PC). Blade 1 also contains connectors for the PS2 Keyboard and Mouse.
Both Blades 1 & 4 have provision for one 128KB/512KB SRAM with a 74HC573 latch. Blade 1's Mouse and Keyboard connector shares the pins, so it is either/or.
Blades 2 & 5 have provision for one or two 128KB/512KB or one 2MB SRAMs. I think that the I2C/SPI interface (which includes as alternative SD/microSD)·can be used together with one or two 128KB/512KB, but not the 2MB SRAM. There are no latches, so access should be fairly fast.
All Blades are supplied from a single Xtal Oscillator 14x9.8mm SMT (J lead style) from Digikey (5.00MHz available) (untested). There aren't any T/Holes at this oscillator. All Blades also have provision for a 5.00MHz Xtal, but the via feeding the common oscillator will need to be cut (for each Blade) to isolate the prop if using this option.
There is a power connector and a TO-220 3V3 regulator on board, but no 5V. This was a rushed section and there is little room left on the 5x7" pcb. I have mounting holes on the four corners of the pcb, but forgot any pads for standoffs elsewhere. I also forgot to mount a LED
Hopefully I have the PS2, VGA and power·connectors correct as well as the footprint.·I just used them from the Protel library. I have made the TV connector footprint for an RCA (yellow) Mouser part 161-0380-E.
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Attached is the schematic for Blades 2 & 5 (identical).
There are·a couple of minor errors on the pcb (for these 2 Blades) with -WE and both -CE's and a missing pad (no connect) for pin 1 when using the 2MB SDRAM in 36 pin footprint. I think I deleted it last minute. Anyway, just cut the pin off. Also A19 & A20 may need rewiring when using this SRAM. I was changing these pins last minute as I think I found a way for the I2C and/or SPI (& SD card) to coexist with both SRAMs. Don't worry that the A19 & A20 pins are not contiguous in addressing as the SRAM doesn't care if the pins are mixed up. There are no internal registers in the SRAMs. I used this method to scramble my code in my designs years ago.
As I noted previously, I didn't get to put an SD/microSD socket(s) on the pcb, but the SPI chip pads (U5) can be used as a header as it has all the pins required for the interface there.
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In Blade's 3 and 6.
It is LO else HI addresses latched?
Sorry 1 - 4
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty. For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer. Don't guess - ask instead. If you don't ask you won't know. If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Here is the final section (Blades 3 & 6) of the schematic for the SixBladeProp PCB.
You will note the I/O plugs maybe either 2 @ 2x10 pins or 1 @ 2x20 pins. The 2x10 pin connectors are the same pinout·to the connectors (J3 & J4) on Blades 1 & 3, with the exception that Blades 1 & 3 only have 8 I/Os wired. These are the VGA pins on Blades 1 & 3.
An adapter pcb could be built to adapt 4 spin studio sockets per 2x20 pin connector, or 2 spin studio sockets per 2x20 pin connector.
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Anyone interested in one (or more) pcbs should email me. The price will depend on the number of pcbs that can be made. If you want me to source any of the components used on my pcb please ask (no guarantees, but I have to order them myself). Shipping will be by express post from Australia and payment will be by PayPal. If you require parts also, I will delay shipping until all parts arrive.
I am not sure if I should delay the pcb and fix the 3 errors (on Blades 2 & 5) - they are easily fixed. I am not aware of any·other errors at this time.·Note you will need to wire "interblade" connections for Reset and Serial In and Serial Out. Holes have been provided.
It is not necessary to build all blades, nor is it necessary to fit all options. Some options are mutually exclusive.
I·have setup a page on my website for reference to the SixBladeProp pcb (under construction). www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
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In You data sheet 1 of 3 with 74573 latch You not have standart conections for it to emulating 8085/8088 bus system.
For it You must have IN lines conected to same lines as Data Bus not at LOW address.
With that conection it is more difictual to emulate 8085/8088 I/O Bus system samt HIGH address lines
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty. For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer. Don't guess - ask instead. If you don't ask you won't know. If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
I am not trying to emulate the 8085/8088 bus. I am going for software speed in the prop. This way, while reading, it is not necessary to change the direction of the data pins (which would be input to the prop), but merely to place a new high order address out on the address pins only when required (all 11 of them namely A0-A10 containing A11-A18 & 000) and strobe the latch. In fact, for speed sacrificing power, it is legal to leave the -CE pin enabled during continuous reads and just change the address and after the required delay, the data pins will reflect the correct data from the SRAM.
So, in essence, you can read a block of 2048 (A0-A10) bytes from the SRAM while only changing the low order addresses. The upper address lines A11-A18 do not require re-latching as they are constant within the block.
In summary, I am adding fast SRAM, not any 8085/8088 peripherals. Hope this answers your question.
Note however, if you wanted to make the pcb handle 8085/8088 peripherals, you would need to connect a daughter pcb and you would then provide the latch on it. All pins to do this would be available from the SRAM and 74HC573 pins.
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Comments
Now we must just wait for G1llete's 8 blades razor announcement ...
Watch out for that last prop - we all know what it is up to.
How are things going with the schematic/board etc? Sing out if you need any help.
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http://www.propgfx.co.uk/forum/·home of the PropGFX Lite
·
Where do I sign up?
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Jim Fouch
FOUCH SOFTWARE
You may notice there are two 54pin TSOP footprints (for SDRAM) but unfortunately I do not think that I can route the pins.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 1/30/2009 6:50:53 PM GMT
I am thinking of the 2x20 connectors, with one daughterboard per socket. If they are socketed on the left and extend to the right and flying ~0.5-0.75" above the host board, it would be very useful to have a secure mounting point (or two) where the right end of the daughterboard could be fixed to the lower motherboard (something like the SpinStudio structure, but with the mechanical support being the motherboard, not the case). The daughterboard could extend over the VGA connector if necessary.
Could a grounded via be added behind the VGA pads to act as the support point for a stand-off ? Centred on the 2x20 connector would be ideal, but not necessary, as long as the supports are equivalent for the two daughterboards. I think that 4-40 is the norm for small standoffs ...
Cheers!
Post Edited (TreeLab) : 1/30/2009 11:57:54 PM GMT
@TreeLab: Thanks. The 2x40 (layed as 2x44) pin connectors are actually also wired as 2x20 also, with +3V on the top pair of pins and GND on the bottom pair, with 2x8 I/O rows. I wanted to make them Spin Studio compatible, but that wasn't possible in the space.
As you can see, I have not routed the power and ground yet. The idea is that power will be around the edge on the top layer and ground around the edge on the bottom layer. There will be mounting holes around the edge of the pcb (currently only lower right corner).
There is a link near the VGA connector, so that TV can be used instead using the same pins (different resistors required though) connecting to an RCA connector. I dont have the connectors for the PropPlug, nor SD/microSD on yet, nor any power regulator(s).
Currently the top right hand "Blade" is identical to the lower right, but that will have to change. I will remove the second VGA & TV connectors. There are two PS2 (keyboard & mouse) connectors, one above, one below the upper VGA & TV connectors.
Just thought I would post where I was up to.
FWIW, I don't have any specific use for all the "Blades", just want to be able to run hires graphics and an emulator - both requiring memory.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Let's go with the current design, warts and all. I will gladly send money to fund more R&D in future iterations of the board.
Just stick with the basics. Flights of fancy can come next, as the first few boards will suggest myriad improvements.
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JMH
Post Edited (Quantum) : 1/31/2009 6:16:59 AM GMT
Cheers!
What PCB layout software package are you using? I would like to use the same for ease of communication.
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JMH
ExpressPCB is a bit pedestrian but quite usable.
Here is the connector pinouts - Blades #3 & #6 are identical.
Pinout for the I/O connectors (top view) - two identical sets: +3V3 +3V3 |--| P0 P31 |--| | | P1 P30 | | | | P2 P29 | | | | P3 P28 | | | | P4 P27 | | | | P5 P26 | | | | P6 P25 | | | | P7 P24 | | | | GND GND | | |__| nc nc | | nc nc | | +3V3 +3V3 | | |--| P8 P23 | | | | P9 P22 | | | | P10 P21 | | | | P11 P20 | | | | P12 P19 | | | | P13 P18 | | | | P14 P17 | | | | P15 P16 |__| | | GND GND |__| 2x20 [url=mailto:2@2x10]2@2x10[/url]▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Links to other interesting threads:
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Is there any chance of providing +5 V to the daughterboards using the centre 4 pins marked 'nc'?
Cheers!
Paul Rowntree
George Collins
I should have 2 pcbs back in 5 days to check the functionality.
Thanks also to Peter, here is a SixBladeProp logo and pics of the pcb.
Re Spin Studio connector - it is similar but not identical - you may be able to shoehorn a workable connector by track adds/cuts - I haven't had time to fully examine.
More info to come soon...
I will post a little more regarding having a quantity made as soon as I have verified the pcb.··
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Also, there is provision for a 24C256/512/1024 + 2x10K to be soldered under the pcb (you will need to cut the pins short and solder them from the underside of the pcb (top of the chips pins). All Blades have a PropPlug style pin stake header (or holes). The SI, SO and reset pins have not been wired anywhere - they will need to be wired to Blade #1 to designated pins on the underside of the pcb. I actually ran out of time, but am thinking this may be desirable anyway, as Blade 1 also contains options for the SRAM with a latch, so the reset pins could be placed on the latch for extra pins.
Blades 1, 2, 4 & 5 have provision for 24C256/512/1024 -or- SPI Flash 8Mb-64Mb (this footprint can be used for connecting to an external SD/microSD socket). There is NO SD/microSD footprint on the board·
There is one VGA connector and one TV connector. They are wired to Blade 4.·The·VGA and TV share common pins, so you can only use one or the other (as they require different resistors and 1 link for TV). However, Blade 1 contains the same resistor and link configuration, so it can be wired to the VGA and/or TV connector. The VGA and TV pins use P8-15 (not P16-23 as on the Proto Boards). The reason is to simplify software access to the SRAM.
Blade 1 is provided with a PropPlug RA·pin connector (for normally connecting to the PC). Blade 1 also contains connectors for the PS2 Keyboard and Mouse.
Both Blades 1 & 4 have provision for one 128KB/512KB SRAM with a 74HC573 latch. Blade 1's Mouse and Keyboard connector shares the pins, so it is either/or.
Blades 2 & 5 have provision for one or two 128KB/512KB or one 2MB SRAMs. I think that the I2C/SPI interface (which includes as alternative SD/microSD)·can be used together with one or two 128KB/512KB, but not the 2MB SRAM. There are no latches, so access should be fairly fast.
All Blades are supplied from a single Xtal Oscillator 14x9.8mm SMT (J lead style) from Digikey (5.00MHz available) (untested). There aren't any T/Holes at this oscillator. All Blades also have provision for a 5.00MHz Xtal, but the via feeding the common oscillator will need to be cut (for each Blade) to isolate the prop if using this option.
There is a power connector and a TO-220 3V3 regulator on board, but no 5V. This was a rushed section and there is little room left on the 5x7" pcb. I have mounting holes on the four corners of the pcb, but forgot any pads for standoffs elsewhere. I also forgot to mount a LED
Hopefully I have the PS2, VGA and power·connectors correct as well as the footprint.·I just used them from the Protel library. I have made the TV connector footprint for an RCA (yellow) Mouser part 161-0380-E.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 2/2/2009 9:07:25 AM GMT
I cannot thank you enough.
Place an order for two for me, warts and all. I am serious - no matter the cost; place an order for two for me.
I trust you implicitly.
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JMH
Post Edited (Quantum) : 2/2/2009 10:11:23 AM GMT
There are·a couple of minor errors on the pcb (for these 2 Blades) with -WE and both -CE's and a missing pad (no connect) for pin 1 when using the 2MB SDRAM in 36 pin footprint. I think I deleted it last minute. Anyway, just cut the pin off. Also A19 & A20 may need rewiring when using this SRAM. I was changing these pins last minute as I think I found a way for the I2C and/or SPI (& SD card) to coexist with both SRAMs. Don't worry that the A19 & A20 pins are not contiguous in addressing as the SRAM doesn't care if the pins are mixed up. There are no internal registers in the SRAMs. I used this method to scramble my code in my designs years ago.
As I noted previously, I didn't get to put an SD/microSD socket(s) on the pcb, but the SPI chip pads (U5) can be used as a header as it has all the pins required for the interface there.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
This is quite amazing.
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For me, the past is not over yet.
Postedit: Sorry, here is correct schematic.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
Post Edited (Cluso99) : 2/4/2009 7:10:47 AM GMT
In Blade's 3 and 6.
It is LO else HI addresses latched?
Sorry 1 - 4
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Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
Don't guess - ask instead.
If you don't ask you won't know.
If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Sapieha
Post Edited (Sapieha) : 2/3/2009 6:43:49 PM GMT
Sapieha: It is transparent on high and latched on high to low edge.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
You will note the I/O plugs maybe either 2 @ 2x10 pins or 1 @ 2x20 pins. The 2x10 pin connectors are the same pinout·to the connectors (J3 & J4) on Blades 1 & 3, with the exception that Blades 1 & 3 only have 8 I/Os wired. These are the VGA pins on Blades 1 & 3.
An adapter pcb could be built to adapt 4 spin studio sockets per 2x20 pin connector, or 2 spin studio sockets per 2x20 pin connector.
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
I am not sure if I should delay the pcb and fix the 3 errors (on Blades 2 & 5) - they are easily fixed. I am not aware of any·other errors at this time.·Note you will need to wire "interblade" connections for Reset and Serial In and Serial Out. Holes have been provided.
It is not necessary to build all blades, nor is it necessary to fit all options. Some options are mutually exclusive.
I·have setup a page on my website for reference to the SixBladeProp pcb (under construction).
www.bluemagic.biz/cluso.htm
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Links to other interesting threads:
· Home of the MultiBladeProps (SixBladeProp)
· Prop Tools under Development or Completed (Index)
· Emulators (Micros eg Altair, and Terminals eg VT100) - index
· Search the Propeller forums (via Google)
My cruising website is: ·www.bluemagic.biz
In You data sheet 1 of 3 with 74573 latch You not have standart conections for it to emulating 8085/8088 bus system.
For it You must have IN lines conected to same lines as Data Bus not at LOW address.
With that conection it is more difictual to emulate 8085/8088 I/O Bus system samt HIGH address lines
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Nothing is impossible, there are only different degrees of difficulty.
For every stupid question there is at least one intelligent answer.
Don't guess - ask instead.
If you don't ask you won't know.
If your gonna construct something, make it·as simple as·possible yet as versatile as posible.
Sapieha
I am not trying to emulate the 8085/8088 bus. I am going for software speed in the prop. This way, while reading, it is not necessary to change the direction of the data pins (which would be input to the prop), but merely to place a new high order address out on the address pins only when required (all 11 of them namely A0-A10 containing A11-A18 & 000) and strobe the latch. In fact, for speed sacrificing power, it is legal to leave the -CE pin enabled during continuous reads and just change the address and after the required delay, the data pins will reflect the correct data from the SRAM.
So, in essence, you can read a block of 2048 (A0-A10) bytes from the SRAM while only changing the low order addresses. The upper address lines A11-A18 do not require re-latching as they are constant within the block.
In summary, I am adding fast SRAM, not any 8085/8088 peripherals. Hope this answers your question.
Note however, if you wanted to make the pcb handle 8085/8088 peripherals, you would need to connect a daughter pcb and you would then provide the latch on it. All pins to do this would be available from the SRAM and 74HC573 pins.
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Good catch!
I must reconstruct my programing