The Quad-Rover could probably be considered nonsense economics as well, but boy, it must have been fun to develope! - It's nice to work in a company that doesn't put economics above all, I feel sorry for everyone who can never make that experience. Hippy, please don't spare us from anything!
hinv said...
One thing that is kind of a hangup of mine is the dip40 package. To me it says OLD, clunky, slow.
It certainly does, but it's the most useful packaging formats for the hobbyist and home user to use on bread-board or strip-board. If it were only available in DIP40 that would be a problem, but as there are more modern, smaller footprints available the DIP40 doesn't really detract rather adds to the range.
Praxis said...
Phil Pilgrim the debate for me is over as I went the extra distance and did a thorough review of the chip before even considering it, however many would not.
At the end of the day it is all perception, your logic about the bottom line however is flawed, that is to say what if a potential customer was "filtered", and that customer wanted to order 100K units, that would surely impact Parallax's bottom line.
Just a thought.
Just a side note. If someone's planning a 100k order and does not want the logo,·lets talk. I just may be willing to·personally buy the sand paper and get to work on those logo's for you! [noparse];)[/noparse]
Praxis said...
Phil Pilgrim the debate for me is over as I went the extra distance and did a thorough review of the chip before even considering it, however many would not.
At the end of the day it is all perception, your logic about the bottom line however is flawed, that is to say what if a potential customer was "filtered", and that customer wanted to order 100K units, that would surely impact Parallax's bottom line.
Just a thought.
Just a side note. If someone's planning a 100k order and does not want the logo,·lets talk. I just may be willing to·personally buy the sand paper and get to work on those logo's for you! [noparse];)[/noparse]
No sandpaper·necessary. We can also order packaging with custom silkscreen.
Just a side note. If someone's planning a 100k order and does not want the logo, lets talk. I just may be willing to personally buy the sand paper and get to work on those logo's for you! [noparse];)[/noparse]
Hi Paul, better start practicing, you never know what might be on the horizon[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Praxis said...
Phil Pilgrim the debate for me is over as I went the extra distance and did a thorough review of the chip before even considering it, however many would not.
At the end of the day it is all perception, your logic about the bottom line however is flawed, that is to say what if a potential customer was "filtered", and that customer wanted to order 100K units, that would surely impact Parallax's bottom line.
Just a thought.
Just a side note. If someone's planning a 100k order and does not want the logo,·lets talk. I just may be willing to·personally buy the sand paper and get to work on those logo's for you! [noparse];)[/noparse]
No sandpaper·necessary. We can also order packaging with custom silkscreen.
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Whew! Thanks Ken. With my luck someone would have taken me up on that offer!
Paul, I would have suggested building a flat bead printer using the Propeller hooked up with a dremel. If your going to do the same process > 5 times ... Automate it!
Finally, this thread is resuming to its original intended course, minus the passion and unnecesary hype. Based on the number of PICs we've bought so far, and considering using the PPL on a production basis, may I ask what is your minimum volume (LQFPs) for custom silkscreen and what kind of lead time may be involved? Is this 'offer' also applicable to the upcoming PPL II? Some find this thread already too long: should it be transferred to a PM post instead? Thank you very much for your kind consideration.
This is a technical forum. We already suffered through your 'wankers' rant, thank you very much. .....
4Alex, Please don't take any offense to my quoting you.
Hippy is a fine micro-controller engineer whom I would hire in a heartbeat given the need.·Compared to others here·he is·a consistent, balanced,·detail oriented, and diplomatic·professional. Like many of the best engineers I've known he has a bit of an edge. Engineers who don't speak their mind within limits are often are not worth their salt. No one likes being insulted, and we·all have spats of "character" which may require apology. Hippy has been apologetic sometimes where seemingly unnecessary, so I accept him without exception even if I would be a target if some temporal ire. I'm usually less diplomatic and find myself stuck at times [noparse]:)[/noparse]
As far as Parallax goes, I'm glad they have a brand·which adds value in their market domain (most companies only put the company logo and part number and date code on the chips though ... yadayadayada ... by the way sanding off a date code is not a good idea if you ever suspect a batch of chips to have trouble).·I respect what they have done and am intrigued by and use many of the products they sell. It is their business to run as they wish. As others have pointed out, public financing is not necessary to succeed and would require hiring·a heard of special accountants and lawyers to maintain (yuck) anyway. There are advantages to running an S corporation (or LLC) in the US though the number of investors allowed is greatly limited, and·can easily be converted as necessary if the benefits outweigh the new problems. The way Parallax works allows sharing the wealth in a way that can benefit small engineering technical specialists rather than big financial specialists.
I look at companies in a public way because I have benefited greatly as an insider from a few of them going public, and it's hard to beat that. I live in a world where·4 out of 5 cars on the freeway is a Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Accura, Infinity, Porsche or Ferrari, and houses were worth $1M before the real-estate boom.·I am a product of my environment and my experiences.·If my attitude offends anyone, then please forgive me.
Since the request may reply to other people, I'll answer it on the forums.
Yes, it would apply to future Propellers. We have no release date for future Propellers, and we wish the topic never came up on the forums. Having observed the process of designing and fabricating the first P8X32A I can tell you it is not possible to estimate a release date with any accuracy, even if Chip says we'll have them next month. Could be a year or two just as easily.
I could handle a silkscreen request for 25-50K units for a fixed cost of a few thousand dollars, and for free in the 100K unit range. There would be extra lead time since I would need to coordinate it with a wafer build. 90 days is prudent planning.
Sorry wasn't trying to suggest there was a limit but was trying to find a compact way to say that if you have not been around here that long you won't know what a good guy Hippy is and how much he has contributed.
Looks like I'm missing out on all the fun so I'll add my 2cents worth.
Personally I like the name and logo. The logo simply because its different. Its nice to see that Parallax are able to mix a bit of fun in with their work. To me that indicates that they probably have a better work/life balance and therefore make better products
Of course that probably isn't going to help with the CEO of some company but who really cares what the logo is? As an engineer it should be about what the prop can do. If you are the CEO than do you really care about what the chip looks like? After all are they ever going to see it?
Comments
It certainly does, but it's the most useful packaging formats for the hobbyist and home user to use on bread-board or strip-board. If it were only available in DIP40 that would be a problem, but as there are more modern, smaller footprints available the DIP40 doesn't really detract rather adds to the range.
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Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Hi Paul, better start practicing, you never know what might be on the horizon[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Cheers
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Finally, this thread is resuming to its original intended course, minus the passion and unnecesary hype. Based on the number of PICs we've bought so far, and considering using the PPL on a production basis, may I ask what is your minimum volume (LQFPs) for custom silkscreen and what kind of lead time may be involved? Is this 'offer' also applicable to the upcoming PPL II? Some find this thread already too long: should it be transferred to a PM post instead? Thank you very much for your kind consideration.
Cheers,
Alex
Hippy is a fine micro-controller engineer whom I would hire in a heartbeat given the need.·Compared to others here·he is·a consistent, balanced,·detail oriented, and diplomatic·professional. Like many of the best engineers I've known he has a bit of an edge. Engineers who don't speak their mind within limits are often are not worth their salt. No one likes being insulted, and we·all have spats of "character" which may require apology. Hippy has been apologetic sometimes where seemingly unnecessary, so I accept him without exception even if I would be a target if some temporal ire. I'm usually less diplomatic and find myself stuck at times [noparse]:)[/noparse]
As far as Parallax goes, I'm glad they have a brand·which adds value in their market domain (most companies only put the company logo and part number and date code on the chips though ... yadayadayada ... by the way sanding off a date code is not a good idea if you ever suspect a batch of chips to have trouble).·I respect what they have done and am intrigued by and use many of the products they sell. It is their business to run as they wish. As others have pointed out, public financing is not necessary to succeed and would require hiring·a heard of special accountants and lawyers to maintain (yuck) anyway. There are advantages to running an S corporation (or LLC) in the US though the number of investors allowed is greatly limited, and·can easily be converted as necessary if the benefits outweigh the new problems. The way Parallax works allows sharing the wealth in a way that can benefit small engineering technical specialists rather than big financial specialists.
I look at companies in a public way because I have benefited greatly as an insider from a few of them going public, and it's hard to beat that. I live in a world where·4 out of 5 cars on the freeway is a Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Accura, Infinity, Porsche or Ferrari, and houses were worth $1M before the real-estate boom.·I am a product of my environment and my experiences.·If my attitude offends anyone, then please forgive me.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Since the request may reply to other people, I'll answer it on the forums.
Yes, it would apply to future Propellers. We have no release date for future Propellers, and we wish the topic never came up on the forums. Having observed the process of designing and fabricating the first P8X32A I can tell you it is not possible to estimate a release date with any accuracy, even if Chip says we'll have them next month. Could be a year or two just as easily.
I could handle a silkscreen request for 25-50K units for a fixed cost of a few thousand dollars, and for free in the 100K unit range. There would be extra lead time since I would need to coordinate it with a wafer build. 90 days is prudent planning.
That simple.
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Thanks for the info, saved me an email.
Regards
Thank you for your prompt reply. Interesting.
Cheers,
Alex
Sorry wasn't trying to suggest there was a limit but was trying to find a compact way to say that if you have not been around here that long you won't know what a good guy Hippy is and how much he has contributed.
Graham
Personally I like the name and logo. The logo simply because its different. Its nice to see that Parallax are able to mix a bit of fun in with their work. To me that indicates that they probably have a better work/life balance and therefore make better products
Of course that probably isn't going to help with the CEO of some company but who really cares what the logo is? As an engineer it should be about what the prop can do. If you are the CEO than do you really care about what the chip looks like? After all are they ever going to see it?