The 1-2-3 board is an expensive option. It seems to me that some people who wanted to work with the older P2 images found it difficult to justify buying even a DE0-Nano. Requiring the 1-2-3 board will probably limit the number of testers.
Agreed, which is why the thread exists.
The BeMicro CV A9 is a good candidate, what otherFPGA boards make the cut as well, will come down to "what fits"
The 'use case' has improved, with Altera moving a little where the WebPACK supports
Quite a lot can be done with one COG, but if less than one COG is needed to fit, it quickly becomes compromised too far.
To complicate things, it sounds like the Cyclone V is a relatively large jump from Altera, and reports seem to be fitting is slower, and logic use is up.
If Parallax have to tune too much specifically to Cyclone V, that makes other cores harder to support.
FYI Guys
I did a test compile for this board with a single P1V with 1152K Hub ram.
The build used 77% of the available memory bits and 8% of the ALM's!
FYI Guys
I did a test compile for this board with a single P1V with 1152K Hub ram.
The build used 77% of the available memory bits and 8% of the ALM's!
Must be bordering on 100 cogs, enough for servicing 100 interrupts :-)
I had a attempt at building "Propzilla" a 12 x P1V 96 Cog beast.
Quartus got about 45 minutes into a compile then gave up with errors.
Turns out I exceeded the total IO pin count.
Based on a 5 x P1V 40 cog build which took 90 minutes, "Propzilla" may take 4+ hours to compile.:(
Those horrible compile times for Cyclone V targets don't make me happy. My BeMicro CV is gathering dust mostly because the long build times don't leave much time for playing around. I was considering the CVA9 because $149 is a lot cheaper than the DE2-115 but the price difference and the extra features and the much faster compile time (10 minutes) just might make me save up for a DE2 anyway.
Altera really should get their act together and do something about how big of a turn-off the Cyclone V is to potential customers. Maybe they should allow multi-CPU compilation or partial compilation on the free Quartus just for the Cyclone V or something.
Those horrible compile times for Cyclone V targets don't make me happy. My BeMicro CV is gathering dust mostly because the long build times don't leave much time for playing around. I was considering the CVA9 because $149 is a lot cheaper than the DE2-115 but the price difference and the extra features and the much faster compile time (10 minutes) just might make me save up for a DE2 anyway.
Altera really should get their act together and do something about how big of a turn-off the Cyclone V is to potential customers. Maybe they should allow multi-CPU compilation or partial compilation on the free Quartus just for the Cyclone V or something.
===Jac
Actually, I believe multi-cpu compile is enabled if you enable their TalkBack thing. Incremental compilation would be nice, though. I suspect that would make a big difference.
The CVA9 sounds like a cheap choice to get a big Cyclone V.
Unfortunately, the 1-2-3 board will be way more expensive. Most likely this is because Parallax will not get the buy price of the A9 that they are getting for the BeMicro version.
So the design loop should be check the code using a limited version for the DE0-nano and once verified, add it to the A9 build. That way development is done with short compile times.
I just ordered a BeMIcro CV A9 board in spite of the high shipping cost to the UK and our Value-Added Tax (20% on total inc. shipping), which push the price up considerably.
A9 ? Does the free Quartus support he CV A9 now ?
My BeMicros are also gathering dust... now if I could only decide between PIC32, LPC17xx and STM32... that would be great ! .
My BeMicro CV A9 board arrived this morning. Unlike the earlier CV board with the smaller FPGA it came with a 5V power supply - the USB supply is only suitable for small designs. Unfortunately, it only has a US mains plug, I probably have a suitable PS with a UK plug somewhere.
I tried a simple VHDL test program which lights an LED when a switch is pressed, and it built and ran OK. I can't get on with Verilog. If anyone else wants to try VHDL here is the program:
-- Simple test program for BeMicro CV A9 kit
--
-- Lights LED1 when S1 button is pressed
--
-- LED1 - Pin B17
-- Switch S1 (Tact1) - Pin H18
LIBRARY IEEE;
USE IEEE.STD_LOGIC_1164.all;
ENTITY Test IS
PORT
(
LED1 : OUT STD_LOGIC;
S1 : IN STD_LOGIC
);
END Test;
ARCHITECTURE a OF Test IS
attribute chip_pin : string;
attribute chip_pin of LED1 : signal is "B17";
attribute chip_pin of S1 : signal is "H18";
BEGIN
LED1 <= S1;
END a;
How does one include code in a post? It hasn't come out too badly, anyway.
I've just found a US-UK adapter, so I can use the PS supplied with the kit.
I probably won't bother with it as I have a perfectly good 100 MHz 4 channel Rigol scope.
Have you tried a recent download? They might have fixed the bugs.
Where is a good place to buy the CV A9 board from? I would suffer the same extra cost issues as Leon (more, actually) if I order from Norway, but I could consider ordering one when I go back to Japan.
(btw. where did 'Location' go? No support in Vanilla?)
Hei Leon,
does Quartus 15 compile faster for Cyclone V than 13 or 14 did ? I kept using my MachXO2 board just because Lattice Diamond is way faster at compiling .
Where is a good place to buy the CV A9 board from? I would suffer the same extra cost issues as Leon (more, actually) if I order from Norway, but I could consider ordering one when I go back to
Japan.
(btw. where did 'Location' go? No support in Vanilla?)
Altera partnered the BeMirco CVA9 to be sold only by Arrow Electronics. They do have offices all over the world, but you may not find them able to provide you with a single unit purchase. If you can avoid VAT, I'd ship to Japan unless their customs gets nasty.
Shopping for the BeMicro CV and CVA9 has been driving me nuts. Here in Kaohsiung, Arrow Electronics is actually 3 minutes from my home --- but it seems that all sales go through the USA online office unless you are someone special.
In the end, I have had to pay a $44USD shipping bill that I wanted to avoid. But I did order a BeMicro CV, a BeMicro CVA9, and the BeMicro 50 Mhz twin oscilloscope card for about $286USD including shipping.
Considering all that, it is difficult for me to support the purchase of the Propeller 1-2-3 board at $375. And this purchase might actually get more developers actively testing the Propeller 2. One board can be used as an oscilloscope (Windows required -- sorry), and the other board is plenty large for anything the Propeller 2 might do. That is a lot of test bench. And the oscilloscope board seems to include an adapter that will plug in more boards (perhaps DIY), a probe, and software.
Sadly, I don't see how the FPGA industry will ever allow Parallax to make a competitive profit from building their own board.
Perhaps Parallax should focus on a plug-in support board for these FPGAs and let the industry do the rest.
Years ago, I bought a de1--- something( from Terasic). Couldn't take the first step.
Then I got a nano... nice first step. Then a BeMicroCV... collecting dust. Then a de2-115 from Parallax... huge step, mostly because of pik33 and ozpropdev. Then the BeMicroCV9... nothing yet, but I have plans:)
Total it all up and it is about the cost of a semester at a public college.
The de2-115 got killed and replaced with the P123 board. I'm sitting here looking at the 1-2-3...It is absolutely gorgeous. Nice footprint. Add a little display over the top and you have a little package that you just can't beat. All for about what it would cost you to take one class at a local college.
As a hobbyist, it is all about learning. And most importantly... how to learn the most in the least amount of time and with the most amount of fun... dust isn't fun. If you think it will collect dust
don't do it!!!! But if you think you will learn a lot and have fun doing it... it is well worth the price.
Has anyone managed to program the QSPI (x4) Flash for persistent configuration?
My programming process stops at 60%, goes to 0% and then fails.
"6581", are you using the files and instructions from my Github repo to download an FPGA image to the BeMicroCV-A9? There are some small differences compared to the BeMicroCV and others.
Short version:
1. Build it
2. Convert program file using BeMicroCV-A9.cof (file type=.jic, config device=EPCQ256, mode=Active Serial X4; almost all these settings are different from other targets!)
3. Open the Download dialog, make sure hardware is detected (USB-Blaster), add file output_files\bemicrocv-a9.jic, select Program/Configure, then Start. The progress bar may "go around" more than once, I'm not sure why. Also sometimes it fails right when you click Start, again I don't know why. Just select the file, delete it and add it again, then hit Start again. Most of the time that works for me.
@jac_goudsmith: Thats exactly what I did. The configuration never succeeds. It goes to 40%, sometimes to 60%, then gets slow, then starts again and then fails. Maybe its worth saying that I am running it on Linux in Virtualbox on a OSX machine.
Comments
The BeMicro CV A9 is a good candidate, what otherFPGA boards make the cut as well, will come down to "what fits"
The 'use case' has improved, with Altera moving a little where the WebPACK supports
Quite a lot can be done with one COG, but if less than one COG is needed to fit, it quickly becomes compromised too far.
To complicate things, it sounds like the Cyclone V is a relatively large jump from Altera, and reports seem to be fitting is slower, and logic use is up.
If Parallax have to tune too much specifically to Cyclone V, that makes other cores harder to support.
Hah! Indeed I am!
I did a test compile for this board with a single P1V with 1152K Hub ram.
The build used 77% of the available memory bits and 8% of the ALM's!
Must be bordering on 100 cogs, enough for servicing 100 interrupts :-)
Max 10m50 board turned up this arvo
How long does that ~8% build take ?
I had a attempt at building "Propzilla" a 12 x P1V 96 Cog beast.
Quartus got about 45 minutes into a compile then gave up with errors.
Turns out I exceeded the total IO pin count.
Based on a 5 x P1V 40 cog build which took 90 minutes, "Propzilla" may take 4+ hours to compile.:(
30 minutes for the 1152K hub version build, 20 minutes for a standard 32K build.
BTW A 32K build used 5% memory bits and 8% ALM's
Altera really should get their act together and do something about how big of a turn-off the Cyclone V is to potential customers. Maybe they should allow multi-CPU compilation or partial compilation on the free Quartus just for the Cyclone V or something.
===Jac
Actually, I believe multi-cpu compile is enabled if you enable their TalkBack thing. Incremental compilation would be nice, though. I suspect that would make a big difference.
The CVA9 sounds like a cheap choice to get a big Cyclone V.
Unfortunately, the 1-2-3 board will be way more expensive. Most likely this is because Parallax will not get the buy price of the A9 that they are getting for the BeMicro version.
So the design loop should be check the code using a limited version for the DE0-nano and once verified, add it to the A9 build. That way development is done with short compile times.
My BeMicros are also gathering dust... now if I could only decide between PIC32, LPC17xx and STM32... that would be great !
I tried a simple VHDL test program which lights an LED when a switch is pressed, and it built and ran OK. I can't get on with Verilog. If anyone else wants to try VHDL here is the program:
-- Simple test program for BeMicro CV A9 kit
--
-- Lights LED1 when S1 button is pressed
--
-- LED1 - Pin B17
-- Switch S1 (Tact1) - Pin H18
LIBRARY IEEE;
USE IEEE.STD_LOGIC_1164.all;
ENTITY Test IS
PORT
(
LED1 : OUT STD_LOGIC;
S1 : IN STD_LOGIC
);
END Test;
ARCHITECTURE a OF Test IS
attribute chip_pin : string;
attribute chip_pin of LED1 : signal is "B17";
attribute chip_pin of S1 : signal is "H18";
BEGIN
LED1 <= S1;
END a;
How does one include code in a post? It hasn't come out too badly, anyway.
I've just found a US-UK adapter, so I can use the PS supplied with the kit.
http://parts.arrow.com/item/detail/arrow-development-tools/bescope#nRgG
It only costs $45
http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/157115/bescopebundle-system-files/p1
My older CV collects dust because of install issues. Got the scope to work once, then upgraded some files, and it broke. Very little support from Arrow last time I looked.
.
Have you tried a recent download? They might have fixed the bugs.
And my Parallax PropScope works just fine, also.
(btw. where did 'Location' go? No support in Vanilla?)
I tried a simple VHDL test program which lights an LED when a switch is pressed, and it built and ran OK. .
Do you have build and download times for the small test pgm ?
They are only available from Arrow in the USA, AFAIK. I paid another £27 VAT.
does Quartus 15 compile faster for Cyclone V than 13 or 14 did ? I kept using my MachXO2 board just because Lattice Diamond is way faster at compiling
I forgot. They don't support the A9 anyway.
I tried a simple VHDL test program which lights an LED when a switch is pressed, and it built and ran OK. .
Do you have build and download times for the small test pgm ?
Total elapsed build time was 2m 55s.
Download time was 1m 22s (JTAG).
http://www10.edacafe.com/nbc/articles/1/1364898/Altera-Showcases-Capabilities-Single-Chip-Configurable-Processors-Latest-MAX-10-FPGA-Kit
It has a 7" CAP touch LCD, so that boosts the price to ~$373, but if you wanted to do advanced LCD work that may be tolerable.
Japan.
(btw. where did 'Location' go? No support in Vanilla?)
Altera partnered the BeMirco CVA9 to be sold only by Arrow Electronics. They do have offices all over the world, but you may not find them able to provide you with a single unit purchase. If you can avoid VAT, I'd ship to Japan unless their customs gets nasty.
Shopping for the BeMicro CV and CVA9 has been driving me nuts. Here in Kaohsiung, Arrow Electronics is actually 3 minutes from my home --- but it seems that all sales go through the USA online office unless you are someone special.
In the end, I have had to pay a $44USD shipping bill that I wanted to avoid. But I did order a BeMicro CV, a BeMicro CVA9, and the BeMicro 50 Mhz twin oscilloscope card for about $286USD including shipping.
Considering all that, it is difficult for me to support the purchase of the Propeller 1-2-3 board at $375. And this purchase might actually get more developers actively testing the Propeller 2. One board can be used as an oscilloscope (Windows required -- sorry), and the other board is plenty large for anything the Propeller 2 might do. That is a lot of test bench. And the oscilloscope board seems to include an adapter that will plug in more boards (perhaps DIY), a probe, and software.
Sadly, I don't see how the FPGA industry will ever allow Parallax to make a competitive profit from building their own board.
Perhaps Parallax should focus on a plug-in support board for these FPGAs and let the industry do the rest.
My programming process stops at 60%, goes to 0% and then fails.
Then I got a nano... nice first step. Then a BeMicroCV... collecting dust. Then a de2-115 from Parallax... huge step, mostly because of pik33 and ozpropdev. Then the BeMicroCV9... nothing yet, but I have plans:)
Total it all up and it is about the cost of a semester at a public college.
The de2-115 got killed and replaced with the P123 board. I'm sitting here looking at the 1-2-3...It is absolutely gorgeous. Nice footprint. Add a little display over the top and you have a little package that you just can't beat. All for about what it would cost you to take one class at a local college.
As a hobbyist, it is all about learning. And most importantly... how to learn the most in the least amount of time and with the most amount of fun... dust isn't fun. If you think it will collect dust
don't do it!!!! But if you think you will learn a lot and have fun doing it... it is well worth the price.
"6581", are you using the files and instructions from my Github repo to download an FPGA image to the BeMicroCV-A9? There are some small differences compared to the BeMicroCV and others.
Short version:
1. Build it
2. Convert program file using BeMicroCV-A9.cof (file type=.jic, config device=EPCQ256, mode=Active Serial X4; almost all these settings are different from other targets!)
3. Open the Download dialog, make sure hardware is detected (USB-Blaster), add file output_files\bemicrocv-a9.jic, select Program/Configure, then Start. The progress bar may "go around" more than once, I'm not sure why. Also sometimes it fails right when you click Start, again I don't know why. Just select the file, delete it and add it again, then hit Start again. Most of the time that works for me.
===Jac