The New 16-Cog, 512KB, 64 analog I/O Propeller Chip

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  • Treehouse will have submitted it back when Chip noted. It'll be all lined up at OnSemi waiting on its window in the pipeline so to speak.
    $50,000 buys you a discrediting of a journalist
  • That's great. Then according to Chip's estimate he should get the test chip back around the middle to end of October.
  • jmgjmg Posts: 10,248
    Dave Hein wrote: »
    On July 6 Chip stated that the new test chip should go into a shuttle run in about 4 weeks.
    I suspect this has not happened yet since Chip has been away. However, Chip did know about the China trip when he made this estimate, so maybe he had factored that in.
    I read that as the test chip was done, and in the queue. ie it did not need any additional input from Chip, which means it should be 'in the FAB', right now ?
    I wonder how much they can test, with this new test chip ?

  • jmg wrote: »
    Dave Hein wrote: »
    On July 6 Chip stated that the new test chip should go into a shuttle run in about 4 weeks.
    I suspect this has not happened yet since Chip has been away. However, Chip did know about the China trip when he made this estimate, so maybe he had factored that in.
    I read that as the test chip was done, and in the queue. ie it did not need any additional input from Chip, which means it should be 'in the FAB', right now ?
    I wonder how much they can test, with this new test chip ?
    It's just the analog parts again like the last time isn't it? And the fuses.

  • Yep, same as last time I believe. Chip will have had some tweaking done ... might have been the fuses in fact ...
    $50,000 buys you a discrediting of a journalist
  • jmgjmg Posts: 10,248
    edited August 14 Vote Up0Vote Down
    David Betz wrote: »
    It's just the analog parts again like the last time isn't it? And the fuses.

    Yes, but I think this time is a full-pad-ring, as in the 'final' outer full custom silicon design.
    So I'm taking from that they can test all pin's ADCs and DACs and the new RC Oscillators where Chip tuned the PVT side and bumped to 20MHz min from 20MHz typ.
    Not sure if the expanded digital dividers for the VCO are in there, if not the issue becomes can the VCO drive external dividers ok ?
    Some IccIO numbers should be possible too... and maybe ESD testing.

    evanh wrote: »
    Yep, same as last time I believe. Chip will have had some tweaking done ... might have been the fuses in fact ...
    I recall fuse problems around needing a Vpp, but on every IO pin, which is pretty much the kiss of death for end use.
    Not sure of the final outcome, there - maybe they can re-test to confirm Vpp ( > 3.3V) is needed, and then swap to OnSemi OTP cell for fuses, now in the core.
    In that case, I'd imagine the PAD ring design is not changed, but the fuse-signals are routed to GND.

  • David Betz wrote: »
    What's happening with P2? Is Chip back from China yet?

    I think he is much better there. How many years he had been without holidays?. I hope he will take a long (and well deserved) rest.

    Also, If I were him I would take a month trip to Chengdu:

    http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1331773
    https://www.globalfoundries.com/news-events/press-releases/globalfoundries-and-chengdu-partner-expand-fd-soi-ecosystem-china

    And explain to every single company, startup, engineer that there is a completely documented and open source microcontroller called P1v (verilog) that anyone can use in FPGA, or implement in 22nm FD-SOI.

    How it comes that since 2014 nobody have made a P8x32 substitute/clone?

    (The answer is obvious: this is not a pentium or atmega328 ...)
  • rod1963rod1963 Posts: 748
    edited August 14 Vote Up0Vote Down
    Ramon

    No one has made a P8x32 clone for the simple reason it's expensive to turn it into silicon when they can buy the real thing, right now from Digikey for $8 a piece.

    For a variant to be produced, there would have to be a serious demand for it to just recoup the investment in it.

    In addition with the plethora of mcu's in the wild and more entering every month, the Prop doesn't stand out. ARM has a massive industry mind share, so most engineers will stick with what they know and it's generally ARM or something else from Microchip or NXP. Hobby wise the Arduino and it's many variations are the dominant chips. Now a day, Arduino encompasses everything from a Atmel 328 to PIC32's and even Digital Signal controllers.

    This isn't the same market that existed when the Prop was first introduced, far from it.



  • rod1963 wrote: »
    ... Now a day, Arduino encompasses everything from a Atmel 328 to PIC32's and even Digital Signal controllers.
    I didn't know that! Is there integration of all those at the IDE level as well?
    $50,000 buys you a discrediting of a journalist
  • rod1963 wrote: »
    In addition with the plethora of mcu's in the wild and more entering every month, the Prop doesn't stand out.

    This isn't the same market that existed when the Prop was first introduced, far from it.

    I disagree. I am not aware of a single chip that is better suited to motion control.

    http://www.marketsandmarkets.com/PressReleases/motion-control.asp
    PropBASIC ROCKS!
  • That's the thing. "Arduino" is not a particular MCU or even particular board or even from the Arduino company.

    Arduino is an IDE and a language and a bunch of libraries. Which over time have been made to work with many devices.

    For example you can use the Arduino IDE to program the ESP32 WIFI devices.

    Many vendors when introducing new gadgets have provided Arduino IDE integration in the hopes of attracting all the Arduino users. Quite a smart move, there is nothing more annoying than having to get familiar with a whole new IDE for every damn board one buys.
  • rod1963,
    No one has made a P8x32 clone for the simple reason it's expensive to turn it into silicon when they can buy the real thing, right now from Digikey for $8 a piece.
    Quite likely. The Prop market is not big enough to attract cloners.
    For a variant to be produced, there would have to be a serious demand for it to just recoup the investment in it.
    And why would anyone make a variant? If one is designing a chip and wanted some funky logic/IO or whatever in there one would design it into the hardware. There is no need for a multi-core Propeller in there when you can do that. At which point you may as well go with an ARM core or whatever that has great C compiler support.
    In addition with the plethora of mcu's in the wild and more entering every month, the Prop doesn't stand out.
    It's true that we are awash with MCU now a days. But still the Prop stands out. It can do things many of those cannot.

  • jmgjmg Posts: 10,248
    Heater. wrote: »
    Many vendors when introducing new gadgets have provided Arduino IDE integration in the hopes of attracting all the Arduino users. Quite a smart move, there is nothing more annoying than having to get familiar with a whole new IDE for every damn board one buys.

    Yes, but "Arduino IDE integration" means only Edit and Download, there is no Simulation or Debug, right ?

  • No idea. Never used the Arduino IDE.

    I suspect Arduino users have never heard of "simulation" or "debug".

  • jmg wrote: »
    Heater. wrote: »
    Many vendors when introducing new gadgets have provided Arduino IDE integration in the hopes of attracting all the Arduino users. Quite a smart move, there is nothing more annoying than having to get familiar with a whole new IDE for every damn board one buys.

    Yes, but "Arduino IDE integration" means only Edit and Download, there is no Simulation or Debug, right ?
    Well, really edit, compile, link, download. It integrates the compiler toolchain.

  • Heater. wrote: »
    That's the thing. "Arduino" is not a particular MCU or even particular board or even from the Arduino company.

    Arduino is an IDE and a language and a bunch of libraries. Which over time have been made to work with many devices.

    For example you can use the Arduino IDE to program the ESP32 WIFI devices.

    Many vendors when introducing new gadgets have provided Arduino IDE integration in the hopes of attracting all the Arduino users. Quite a smart move, there is nothing more annoying than having to get familiar with a whole new IDE for every damn board one buys.

    this might have worked for the Propeller as well,
    when done at the right time.
    the super Propellerino

    I still think it is a lost marketing opportunity that when I search for Arduino on Ebay no Propellers come up ;-)
    Heck they do not even show up when I search for Parallax Propeller ...
    Seems to me Parallax does not want to sell them :-((

    It would be so easy having always at least one Propeller product on Ebay - tagged with Arduino of course ;-) - so people will stumble over it and get interrested.

    I my self discovered the Propeller only very accidentally - luckily
    http://www.smmu.info (german) Source-Measure-Multiplex-Unit = professional test system for electronic components, sensors, assemblies
    Tachyon code and documentation snippets from Tachyon thread
  • Years ago, 2011, when C/C++ became available for the Propeller there was an Arduino format Propeller board by Martin Hodge. The PropellerASC. A very nice board. https://forum.sparkfun.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=26283
    http://www.instructables.com/id/Propeller-Power-for-the-Arduino/

    Oh it's still available:
    http://www.ic0nstrux.com/Propeller-ASC#.WZMBoKxidhE
    https://www.parallax.com/product/32214

    There was/is some some of the Arduino standard library supported for it. I'm not sure how far along integration with the Arduino IDE got.

    In hind sight perhaps it should have been called the "Produino" with full IDE support available. Still at 50 dollars it has stiff competition from the hundreds of other Arduino like devices are available for peanuts.

  • evanh wrote: »
    rod1963 wrote: »
    ... Now a day, Arduino encompasses everything from a Atmel 328 to PIC32's and even Digital Signal controllers.
    I didn't know that! Is there integration of all those at the IDE level as well?

    There are various forks of the IDE that support chips from TI(energia.nu), Microchip(PIC32 28 pin version) and those $3 ARM boards on Ebay. It's really amazing how it took off. Vendors seem to see it as a way introducing new hardware to people.


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