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Lunar X prize

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  • bubbleheadbubblehead Posts: 36
    edited 2008-02-13 08:50
    Brian Beckius said...


    It would be greatly appreciated if you would like to do some research and see what you come up with.
    I've been doing some research into using COTS hardware in space.· Most of the papers, etc. are directed at satellites in orbit around Earth.

    Space is full of energetic charged particles, from solar and/or galactic sources.· The particles range from electrons and protons up to iron nuclei.· When one of these particles passes through an integrated circuit it can temporarily alter the operation of a circuit and/or cause permanent damage.· There seem to be three major considerations.

    First, the particle can change the state of a transitor in the IC.· For example, a particle can·turn·a transistor on or off, which in turn can flip a bit in a register, memory location, etc.· This is called an SEU or Single Event Upset.· An SEU can usually be cleared by reseting the IC.

    Second,·a particle can turn on a parasitic·transistor.· This effectively·creates short circuit between Vcc and ground through the IC, which may destroy·the IC.· This is called SEL or Single Event Latch-up.· An SEL can usually be cleared by cycling power to the device.

    And third, a particle can also knock atoms out of place in the crystal permanently·damaging the IC.· Over time, the damage accumulates, and eventually the IC stops working.

    Susceptability to SEU/SEL transients depends on the design of the device.

    From what I've read, you can expect up to several SEU events every day.· Typically, ECC codes and redundancy are used to protect against SEU.· For example, a background process continually calculates an ECC on the system code, and corrects any errors when one is detected.· Redundancy is often achieved by having multiple processes or processors·vote--2-of-3, 3-of-5, etc.· The processes can be run sequentially on a single processor, or in parallel on multiple processors.

    An SEL is typically detected by an increase in device current draw.· Excessive current triggers a power shutdown and restart.

    A number of papers give a lifetime dose limit of 20 krad for COTS devices such as a PIC or a 80386.··A few mm of aluminum shielding can help with lifetime dose.
  • stevenmess2004stevenmess2004 Posts: 1,102
    edited 2008-02-13 12:00
    Before you decide on what processor you are going to use you should figure out what computational power you will need. Are navigation instructions going to be calculated on the ground or on the space craft? How much video compression is going to be needed? etc... The navigation should not be a lot of processing power but finding you current position may be. Video compression is going to need a lot more power than a prop will give you. To help keep the sheilding weight down you could use some tubular structural members and make circuit boards that fit inside.

    As for the pressure, you may well have problems with cameras and radios that are not specifically space/low preassure rated. Just a sugestion if you want to get the launch weight down some and the space craft is sealed you could replace the air with helium. This will save you about 1 kg / cubic meter.
  • BeanBean Posts: 8,129
    edited 2008-02-13 15:50
    bubblehead said...
    Brian Beckius said...
    Bubblehead,
    They are about $150,000 a piece , we need 3 of them. I won't lie to you , I love the Prop (and I'm cheap)and have been trying as hard as I can to shield it for the van allen. Nasa has a ton of documents on making normal electronics make it in space .

    Brian

    The FPGA's are $150K? Ouch.

    Are you thinking of using redundant Props, or·redundant cogs on one prop, or a combination of the two?
    Look at the Actel RTAX250S chips. They are about $5K each.

    http://nepp.nasa.gov/docuploads/3C8F70A3-2452-4336-B70CDF1C1B08F805/JPL%20Rad-Tolerant%20FPGAs%20for%20Space%20Applications.pdf

    Bean


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    Post Edited (Bean (Hitt Consulting)) : 2/13/2008 3:58:47 PM GMT
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-02-14 01:35
    Bean,
    Thats a cool article, here is the pricing I received from Actel.

    RTAX250S/SL - Either 208: $4,380-11,000

    RTAX250S/SL - 352 CQFP: $5,010-12,570
    RTAX1000S/SL - 352 CQFP: $8,780-22,660
    RTAX2000S/SL - 352 CQFP: $10,980-34-860
    RTAX4000S - 352 CQFP: $57,100-159,840

    RTSX32SU - 256 CQFP: $3,800-7,400
    RTSX72SU - 256 CQFP: $5,400-10,400



    RT1280A - Only comes in 172 pin CQFP: $2,100-4,000
    RT1425A - Only comes in 132 pin CQFP: $1,390-2,700
    RT14100A - Only comes in 256 pin CQFP: $2,850-5,000

    Our Electronics Engineer thinks we can get away with one RTAX4000S for Trans lunar vehicle and use none rad hard on the rover . I'm vacume testing a propeller tomarrow to see if it blows up :-)

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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website
  • bubbleheadbubblehead Posts: 36
    edited 2008-02-14 07:22
    Bean (Hitt Consulting) said...
    Look at the Actel RTAX250S chips. They are about $5K each.


    http://nepp.nasa.gov/docuploads/3C8F70A3-2452-4336-B70CDF1C1B08F805/JPL%20Rad-Tolerant%20FPGAs%20for%20Space%20Applications.pdf

    Bean
    ·
    The Xilinx parts in the article continually run a CRC check of the configuration bits in the background.· This lets them detect a SEU and reload from the configuration ROM.

    The Alctel parts use anti-fuse technology, so they are not in-circuit programmable.
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-02-15 04:14
    Come see our Rover and Lander in person at the Embedded Systems Conference in April . We will be located in the entry way. If you think you know what the rover looks like , you might be surprised smile.gif

    http://www.cmp-egevents.com/web/esv/exposition/opportunities


    edit: Booth #3042




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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    http://www.diycalculator.com/subroutines.shtml· My favorite website


    Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 3/1/2008 10:57:57 PM GMT
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-03-01 22:57
    Here is·our new logo:


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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com




    Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 3/1/2008 11:05:20 PM GMT
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  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-03-02 02:58
    Here is a sneak peek at the ESC rover :-)



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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com
    640 x 427 - 135K
  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2008-03-03 03:02
    Brian,

    Cool logo - Super cool rover. The wheels alone are a masterpiece!

    attachment.php?attachmentid=52498

    "To the moon Beckius!"

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    Whit+


    "We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney

    Post Edited (Whit) : 3/3/2008 3:07:14 AM GMT
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  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-03-13 01:56
    new web page is up now :- )

    www.propelx.com


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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com
  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2008-03-13 11:42
    Nice work Brian and team.

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    Whit+


    "We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
  • WhelzornWhelzorn Posts: 256
    edited 2008-03-15 05:22
    Wow, it's been a while since I checked up on this, school's consumed my life. It looks like some progress has been made though! at least on the rover design. If I might make a suggestion, the website could probably be more "attention grabbing" if you included some pictures of the current rover, just so people know it's for real. Have you decided on an FPGA as the central brain aboard the rover?
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-03-17 02:00
    Whelzorn,
    ·The rover for the ESC looks like a Parallax catalog , even Bean's overlay board found it's way in there. We are most certainly going with rad hard FPGA's for space (sorry).·The rover is "TOP SECERT" untill the ESC , opps.

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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com




    Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 3/17/2008 2:11:49 AM GMT
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  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-03-22 06:00
    New rover video , batteries are not the right ones.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1GOGdNdQNc


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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-03-23 03:41
    Bet NASA don't test their rovers like this smile.gif

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0PcwZucVs0


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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-03-25 03:04
    new rover photo.





    Edit: snowmobile pic is for Jay Leno : -)




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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com




    Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 3/28/2008 4:15:05 AM GMT
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  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2008-03-25 20:57
    LOL at the testing video! The rover sure is looking great Brian and team.

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    Whit+


    "We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-03-25 22:00
    Whit,
    Costly rover test session ,rover suffered 4 gear box failures .New motors arrived today ,very,very stout but weigh less than first ones.

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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com




    Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 3/26/2008 4:14:22 AM GMT
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-04-10 00:57
    ESC lunar lander

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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com
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  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2008-04-10 13:04
    Looking great Brian! What will the rover and lander weigh? The rover looks very light and I know that weight is a big issue.

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    Whit+


    "We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
  • william chanwilliam chan Posts: 1,326
    edited 2008-04-10 14:42
    What does ESC stand for?

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  • Max WoodenMax Wooden Posts: 112
    edited 2008-04-10 18:50
    It's the Embedded Systems Conference held in San Jose, CA. [noparse][[/noparse]html]http://www.cmp-egevents.com/web/esv/home?cid=escpp[noparse][[/noparse]/html]

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    Max Wooden
    Reedley, California
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-04-12 06:18
    Whit,

    ·We do have a weight budget . I can not really talk about it.



    ·Ps , CA will never be the same :- )





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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com
    800 x 533 - 248K
  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2008-04-14 13:21
    Brian,

    I understand. Great early video of the Rover on the ESC website!
    Hope the next couple of days go well for the team.

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    Whit+


    "We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-04-21 02:32
    Hi,
    New rover video :- )

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4u00B38Ngk

    SV-NBC video , click on play botton on mechanical giraff.

    http://www.nbc11.com/news/15893752/detail.html#



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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com




    Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/21/2008 2:54:57 AM GMT
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-04-24 03:42
    Test Results:
    2 Propeller’s under 26 lbs of vacuum for 6 hours, NO failures :- )

    Edit: 26 in hg

    edit: Ping sensor did not fair so well.

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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com




    Post Edited (Brian Beckius) : 4/25/2008 3:18:08 AM GMT
  • SeariderSearider Posts: 290
    edited 2008-04-25 22:24
    Very cool project. Question: What value will a Ping Sensor be in a vacum or near vacum (assuming it did not fail)?

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    Searider
  • Brian_BBrian_B Posts: 842
    edited 2008-04-28 03:27
    Searider,
    sorry for taking so long to answer this, the ping sensor will not be making a space trip. I just was seening what I could wreck, The ping sensor did not totally fail .It just change it's measuring ability, I think the vacuum change the cones in the sensor.

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    Thank's Brian



    ·"Imagination is more important than knowledge..." ·· Albert Einstein

    www.PropelX.com
  • Ken GraceyKen Gracey Posts: 7,400
    edited 2008-04-28 05:01
    Brian,

    Additionally, the Ping))) doesn't have temperature compensation so I imagine it would become very unreliable in space.

    Ken Gracey
  • stevenmess2004stevenmess2004 Posts: 1,102
    edited 2008-04-28 05:31
    The Ping))) won't work in space because there is nothing to transmit the sound waves. Also, there may be air trapped in different parts of the Ping))) which may be causing problems.
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