This is a little long... and then I'm going to drop it because it has absolutely nothing to do with the Propeller.
Not to worry. I am deeply committed to freeing myself of all prejudices.
I'm not at all anti-European. I love complexity, and Europe is one of the most complex places on Earth. I also love education and (as a whole) Europe is almost fanatical about education.
On the negative side: I had an opportunity to see first hand what the shared ethos of the leadership in healthcare was all about... and I was deeply disturbed.
On the positive side, I also had the opportunity to look first hand at both dental care and orthopedic care in the Netherlands (because of a bad tooth and a broken arm.) The cost for services was incredibly fair and the quality of the care was superb. In fact, I had an orthopedic injury, which when treated by American standards frequently results in the partial loss function. The same injury treated by a different theory in the Netherlands resulted in nothing more than a few weeks of inconvenience.
So even though I generally despised what I saw in the leadership... at the human level, where it counts, I was more than impressed.
With regard to starting a business. In the United States, the failure rate for new businesses is very high. It is possible that the approach in the Netherlands leads to a much higher success rate.
In the U.S... we all know that prohibition of any kind leads to official corruption (and we suspect that corruption is the driving force of some kinds of prohibition). We have our prohibitions, and we tolerate the corruption because it is largely limited to the area of prohibition.
The VAT, since it is largely hidden, seems to me to be a fundamental structures, which risks wholesale corruption. Years ago I met several people, who had nothing in common except that they had international businesses. These were smaller type business, and the guys generally weren't the kinds of people that try to change the rules... whatever works and whatever is accepted in whatever country they are in... is what they do. Doing business in Europe was a little different that almost anywhere else. This is not intended as an insult. We have the same kinds of problems but in different places in our society. I wonder what structures like the VAT do in terms of presenting a corrupting influence.
When I was in college... there were organized gangs of cheats (calling themselves fraternal organizations). They cheated on everything. They tended to succeed. When we build structures that gives success to the cheaters... we aren't helping ourselves. We also went through in the 1920's. What people reported from that period was that the only people that they knew who ended up with anything tended to steel it from someone else. My family ended up with nothing. Periodically societies degenerate to such conditions. Corrupting influences play a part in such processes. The fact that the VAT is open to systematic corruption means that the VAT is a risk factor, which if I were European would lead me to think about other structures as quickly as possible.
> The VAT has to be the stupidest (stupid, stupider, stupidest) tax in history. Invented in France[noparse]:)[/noparse]
[noparse][[/noparse]snip]
> but what they vote on is who gets the right to cheat...no wonder our troops are still there.
I really don't know what a discussion about VAT and US-forces in foreign territories has to do with Propellers!
Do the people of the US of A *always* have to start a political discussion? Especially if they don't understand a cent about it?
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.: YADRO
Why can't Parallax offer USPS as a regular shipper?
(I know that in the past it has been possible to add a request for USPS in the comment field when finalizing an order... Even done it myself... )
It's slower, but much cheaper than Fed Ex and similar shippers, and a whole lot more convenient for us customers.
Whenever I receive a package throuh FedUP/UPS/DHL or any other of that ilk, I usually find a note on my door saying that the delivery truck was there, but I wasn't home, and to call a certain number to set up a new delivery.
(The first one to tape a message on my brand new front door is going to get an earful about damaging the paint)
As I don't want to take the day off to 'just get a package', I then have to convince the driver that it's possible to deliver it to me at the office, all he has to do is give me a call on my cell-phone a few minutes before arriving, and I'll be waiting at the entrance... (odds are that he has other deliveries there, anyhow)
With the USPS and other 'normal' mail carriers that cooperate directly with the Norwegian Snail-mail, I find a note in my mailbox saying that there's a parcel waiting for me at the postoffice. Then I can fix myself dinner, check my email and finally, putz down to the postoffice a few minutes before they close at 18:00...
Also, most 'priority' carriers won't deliver to po.box adresses...
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Don't visit my new website...
I used USPS First Class the last few times I ordered stuff on the old Parallax website. It worked great (although I think Parallax is loosing money with USPS since the quoted price is less than the printed label on the packages I get).
The new site also seems to have USPS, but it has some bug where it reports missing weight information.
Why North America only? I can use USPS at SparkFun.
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-) BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
rjo_ said...
The VAT, since it is largely hidden, seems to me to be a fundamental structures, which risks wholesale corruption.
The fact that the VAT is open to systematic corruption means that the VAT is a risk factor, which if I were European would lead me to think about other structures as quickly as possible.
I think this boils down to a misunderstanding of what VAT is and how it is applied in Europe. In reality it amounts to no more than a sales tax levied on everything sold ( some items, foodstuffs etc, are exempted ). Everyone is well aware of it and Europeans complain of it just as everyone everywhere complain of added tax. There's nothing hidden about it.
The thinking that there may be corruption because of VAT is I believe entirely unfounded, which I think wraps up this aside to the discussion.
Europe is having issues with the EPS system we use to ship via USPS to europe, it's is a known issue and is being worked on. So eventually the option will be availible to european customers as well.
So UK Prop'rs; if I were to set-up some kind of website where we can aggregate our orders; share the postage & VAT, and make an order to Parallax once every (say) three weeks, how many of you would be interested, and roughly what sort of items would you be looking to purchase?
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-) BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
Why not just buy them from Digikey then?
£6.45 each, free delivery via UPS (Not USPS) for orders over £100 then of couse VAT + Import Duty
On a recent £103 order I made the VAT and duty was £23.50 in total, takes two - three days to get here to the UK.
SO that was 16 Props at £6.45 and by the time VAT and duty is added they were costing me £7.92 each.
Unless you are buying thousands I don't think it will make much difference.....until the US Dollar makes a significant recovery against the Pound that is lol
Hey you guys, £1 = $0.476 - What's going on over there?????
I'm thinking of getting more than just the PChips. I'd like to be able to offer anything from Parallax, Sparkfun, and others.
Unfortunately my place of work blocks digikey for some reason, so I can't see what they stock until this evening, but thanks for the steer
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-) BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
Interesting ... every time I had an order sent to Ireland from Parallax (bar the first one) - It was stopped by customs - usually involved a phone call from Customs then Duty was applied to be paid to courier on delivery ... hate that. Interesting thing though I had ordered a propeller T-Shirt with a fairly substantial order and it was that which interested them most - wtf ?? (got a free T-Shirt on offer with the following order and the same ding dong ?)
EDIT:
Just had a look at - the Purple Parallax 'Packing Slips' from a few orders and one has 'Packing Slip' the others -'Commercial Packing Slip' as titles ... I wonder if this ...
Regards,
John
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ 'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 11/7/2007 10:49:32 AM GMT
If a company was set up ... and goods were 'transferred' as inter-company stock transfers
or
I like you - I decide to order some parts and send them as a 'gift' - you are so happy and you like me too beacause I am a nice guy and you liked your gift so much that you decide to send me a cheque or lodge some money in my paypal account.
·...... stop ....·stop ...
but there has to be a way to stop us being roasted ! Suggestions ?
John
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ 'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 11/7/2007 11:17:34 AM GMT
Only way that could work - legally (I think) - is if we ONLY exchanged 'gifts' - not money. I suspect it _may_ be a loophole, but I don't think I'd want the hassle of trying to get Her Majesty's jobs-worths to agree! LOL
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-) BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
It's the way UPS work, I know as my company has done a load of work with them and we know their systems inside out, we got a receipt for import duty and brokerage charges.
Obviously this is only for amounts up to £200, everything else needs a call to the brokerage operation, they send you an invoice, you pay it and you then get delivery of the goods.
Fed-ex work a little differently they just deliver the goods and invoice you for the duty and brokerage charges.
simonl said...
Only way that could work - legally (I think) - is if we ONLY exchanged 'gifts' - not money. I suspect it _may_ be a loophole, but I don't think I'd want the hassle of trying to get Her Majesty's jobs-worths to agree! LOL
If you are operating as a company then forget it as the revenue will be down on you like a ton of bricks!
All you need is a VAT audit and they will suss you out.
If you are a private individual however, how would they know? Just remember that the VAT will already have been paid by the person importing the goods.
If you are not registered for VAT then you cannot charge it.....or claim it back for that matter lol
My intention is to try and set-up this non-VAT company (as my turnover will be below the VAT limit of £63K) to serve, and encourage, the electronics hobbyist in the UK. I'm intending to set-up an on-line store, with Prop' related tutorials.
I'll be doing this in my spare time (wife & two kids mean I can't ditch the day job just yet - boo hoo!), with a view to building it up over time.
I'm prepared to stock a small range of items, but it'd be good to know what people would like those to be.
At the moment I'm busy sorting the website. With any luck, and a following wind, I should have that sorted in the next 6-12 weeks. The more UK hobbyists who show support, the more likely it is to happen...
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-) BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
> My intention is to try and set-up this non-VAT company (as my turnover will be below the VAT limit of £63K)
> to serve, and encourage, the electronics hobbyist in the UK.
But then you'll still have to pay VAT on top of the imported goods. Plus customs (low, something like 3%).
As soon as goods cross the border to Euro-land, you have to pay VAT. Within the EU, no taxes apply. Only thing you could do is live in a EU-country with low VAT. Luxemburg with 15% for example.
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.: YADRO
Sorry, I just re-read my post and it doesn't say what I meant! What I meant to say was: I won't be VAT registered - so can't claim any VAT back - so the VAT I have to pay on imported goods would simply be passed on to my customers.
I guess the whole business model will depend on how much stock I can afford to keep; what size / value of orders I place; and the associated postage costs. Add to that any mark-up I'll need to add, and it'll really depend on any discounts I can negotiate - so it might never happen LOL
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-) BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
Although I prefer USPS, international destinations will suffer duty/broker fees!
I've made small orders from the US (to Canada) that the broker fee ended up being more than the item's value. So it certainly pays to make larger orders as this is a per shipment charge.
If you use FedEx or UPS they have their own broker which I'm pretty sure doesn't charge as much as a regular broker.
I don't mind paying the extra few bucks to be able to pick it up at my convenience.
cheers
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔ <FONT>Steve
What's the best thing to do in a lightning storm? "take a one iron out the bag and hold it straight up above your head, even God cant hit a one iron!"
Lee Travino after the second time being hit by lightning!
@ simonl : I looked at doing what you're planning and wish you luck ( honestly, not sarcasm ).
I've not got much business acumen and could not see how I could make it work commercially although that's not your prime intent. Once you add on duty, import VAT, import shipping costs, cost of re-packaging, local postage and take a cut to make the effort all worthwhile ( it takes time if you need to go to a Post Office to ship your orders ) the price can go up quite considerably, especially on low quantity, small value orders such as individual Propeller Chips and there's a danger of being no more competitive than the existing dealers.
The most profitable routes are large quantity orders to secure good discounts and high value orders to gain free shipping. If you cannot get either you don't have a lot of savings to pass on to customers.
Hopefully you're of a less pessimistic disposition than I am and can find a way to make it work. The other alternative I can see is in trying to convince an existing electronics supplier to the home / hobby / small business market in the UK who already imports to take on Propeller stock. There are quite a few smaller businesses which supply similar imported micro parts and systems in the UK.
Key to commercial success is making people aware of the Propeller to drive up demand and sales in the first place. I hadn't heard of the Propeller until well after its launch and I doubt I am alone. Promotion and marketing outside America is perhaps something which Parallax themselves could help with along with helping to find ways in reducing total purchase and shipping costs for overseas distributors ?
I used to run this little business: www.indoor.flyer.co.uk and I imported batteries from Korea and parts from Switzerland and Canada and it is possible to make it work but really it requires some real effort if you are doing it for more than alturistic reasons!
1. It's wise to advertise
2. It's a very good idea to have seperate bank accounts or you can end up spending the money needed for stock on toys!
3. It's probably worth getting VAT registered, just because you can buy things you need for your business and not pay VAT.
4. You need to keep on top of orders, a bad rep ruins the business, same goes for stock levels and even your prices (you must check exchange rates etc frequently)
5. Be careful that you tell the tax man about your profits otherwise you may get in trouble, consider if after tax the aditional money is worth the hastle.
6. Really think about why you want to do it, if it's not to make a business then probably forget it, doing it for the love of it should happen during the day not after work.
7. Make shipping costs fair but don't short change yourself either, time is money too.
Steve,
the brokerage is very similar where as the shipping cost is very different. USPS wins on cost nearly everytime. Plus you sometimes slip through the net with the post office but NEVER with UPS or FEDEX
Hey folks, many thanks for all your insights and advice.
@hippy - yeah, all that's been going through my head, and I'm starting to feel that you're probably right - but, I'm a stubborn sort and that voice in my head's saying "yeah, but you can still do it"! So i'll mull it over a while longer I think. I got the electronics 'bug' when I first realised I _could_ program a PIC using ProtonBASIC, and then I found the Propeller - WHOA! No interrupts, yay! I'd really like to get others in the UK enthused about this stuff too, and that's my drive - but then economics drags me back to reality :-(
@Graham - It's really great to get good advice from someone who's "been there; done that" - much appreciated.
Now, I'll have to work out a way to get Parallax to give me good discount and lower the postage I guess - wish me luck!
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-) BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
Comments
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
This is a little long... and then I'm going to drop it because it has absolutely nothing to do with the Propeller.
Not to worry. I am deeply committed to freeing myself of all prejudices.
I'm not at all anti-European. I love complexity, and Europe is one of the most complex places on Earth. I also love education and (as a whole) Europe is almost fanatical about education.
On the negative side: I had an opportunity to see first hand what the shared ethos of the leadership in healthcare was all about... and I was deeply disturbed.
On the positive side, I also had the opportunity to look first hand at both dental care and orthopedic care in the Netherlands (because of a bad tooth and a broken arm.) The cost for services was incredibly fair and the quality of the care was superb. In fact, I had an orthopedic injury, which when treated by American standards frequently results in the partial loss function. The same injury treated by a different theory in the Netherlands resulted in nothing more than a few weeks of inconvenience.
So even though I generally despised what I saw in the leadership... at the human level, where it counts, I was more than impressed.
With regard to starting a business. In the United States, the failure rate for new businesses is very high. It is possible that the approach in the Netherlands leads to a much higher success rate.
In the U.S... we all know that prohibition of any kind leads to official corruption (and we suspect that corruption is the driving force of some kinds of prohibition). We have our prohibitions, and we tolerate the corruption because it is largely limited to the area of prohibition.
The VAT, since it is largely hidden, seems to me to be a fundamental structures, which risks wholesale corruption. Years ago I met several people, who had nothing in common except that they had international businesses. These were smaller type business, and the guys generally weren't the kinds of people that try to change the rules... whatever works and whatever is accepted in whatever country they are in... is what they do. Doing business in Europe was a little different that almost anywhere else. This is not intended as an insult. We have the same kinds of problems but in different places in our society. I wonder what structures like the VAT do in terms of presenting a corrupting influence.
When I was in college... there were organized gangs of cheats (calling themselves fraternal organizations). They cheated on everything. They tended to succeed. When we build structures that gives success to the cheaters... we aren't helping ourselves. We also went through in the 1920's. What people reported from that period was that the only people that they knew who ended up with anything tended to steel it from someone else. My family ended up with nothing. Periodically societies degenerate to such conditions. Corrupting influences play a part in such processes. The fact that the VAT is open to systematic corruption means that the VAT is a risk factor, which if I were European would lead me to think about other structures as quickly as possible.
[noparse][[/noparse]snip]
> but what they vote on is who gets the right to cheat...no wonder our troops are still there.
I really don't know what a discussion about VAT and US-forces in foreign territories has to do with Propellers!
Do the people of the US of A *always* have to start a political discussion? Especially if they don't understand a cent about it?
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
(I know that in the past it has been possible to add a request for USPS in the comment field when finalizing an order... Even done it myself... )
It's slower, but much cheaper than Fed Ex and similar shippers, and a whole lot more convenient for us customers.
Whenever I receive a package throuh FedUP/UPS/DHL or any other of that ilk, I usually find a note on my door saying that the delivery truck was there, but I wasn't home, and to call a certain number to set up a new delivery.
(The first one to tape a message on my brand new front door is going to get an earful about damaging the paint)
As I don't want to take the day off to 'just get a package', I then have to convince the driver that it's possible to deliver it to me at the office, all he has to do is give me a call on my cell-phone a few minutes before arriving, and I'll be waiting at the entrance... (odds are that he has other deliveries there, anyhow)
With the USPS and other 'normal' mail carriers that cooperate directly with the Norwegian Snail-mail, I find a note in my mailbox saying that there's a parcel waiting for me at the postoffice. Then I can fix myself dinner, check my email and finally, putz down to the postoffice a few minutes before they close at 18:00...
Also, most 'priority' carriers won't deliver to po.box adresses...
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Don't visit my new website...
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
The new site also seems to have USPS, but it has some bug where it reports missing weight information.
Harrison
Why North America only? I can use USPS at SparkFun.
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)
BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
I think this boils down to a misunderstanding of what VAT is and how it is applied in Europe. In reality it amounts to no more than a sales tax levied on everything sold ( some items, foodstuffs etc, are exempted ). Everyone is well aware of it and Europeans complain of it just as everyone everywhere complain of added tax. There's nothing hidden about it.
The thinking that there may be corruption because of VAT is I believe entirely unfounded, which I think wraps up this aside to the discussion.
Post Edited (hippy) : 11/6/2007 11:26:05 PM GMT
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
EPS is electronic point of sale?
Graham
So UK Prop'rs; if I were to set-up some kind of website where we can aggregate our orders; share the postage & VAT, and make an order to Parallax once every (say) three weeks, how many of you would be interested, and roughly what sort of items would you be looking to purchase?
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)
BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
Why not just buy them from Digikey then?
£6.45 each, free delivery via UPS (Not USPS) for orders over £100 then of couse VAT + Import Duty
On a recent £103 order I made the VAT and duty was £23.50 in total, takes two - three days to get here to the UK.
SO that was 16 Props at £6.45 and by the time VAT and duty is added they were costing me £7.92 each.
Unless you are buying thousands I don't think it will make much difference.....until the US Dollar makes a significant recovery against the Pound that is lol
Hey you guys, £1 = $0.476 - What's going on over there?????
Regards,
Coley
I'm thinking of getting more than just the PChips. I'd like to be able to offer anything from Parallax, Sparkfun, and others.
Unfortunately my place of work blocks digikey for some reason, so I can't see what they stock until this evening, but thanks for the steer
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)
BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
Well if you are gonna do it anyway and you can keep the price withing Digikey's range then I would buy off you.
Regards,
Coley
EDIT:
Just had a look at - the Purple Parallax 'Packing Slips' from a few orders and one has 'Packing Slip' the others -'Commercial Packing Slip' as titles ... I wonder if this ...
Regards,
John
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'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 11/7/2007 10:49:32 AM GMT
I had to pay UPS (the courier) the tax and duty on delivery, no great shakes other than they wanted cash....
Regards,
Coley
That sounds a bit sus - They would have paid the tax and duty via cheque to the revenue and you paid them in cash - I smell a fiddle !
John !
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'Necessity is the mother of invention'
or
I like you - I decide to order some parts and send them as a 'gift' - you are so happy and you like me too beacause I am a nice guy and you liked your gift so much that you decide to send me a cheque or lodge some money in my paypal account.
·...... stop ....·stop ...
but there has to be a way to stop us being roasted ! Suggestions ?
John
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'Necessity is the mother of invention'
Post Edited (QuattroRS4) : 11/7/2007 11:17:34 AM GMT
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)
BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
It's the way UPS work, I know as my company has done a load of work with them and we know their systems inside out, we got a receipt for import duty and brokerage charges.
Obviously this is only for amounts up to £200, everything else needs a call to the brokerage operation, they send you an invoice, you pay it and you then get delivery of the goods.
Fed-ex work a little differently they just deliver the goods and invoice you for the duty and brokerage charges.
All legit and above board I can assure you. lol
Regards,
Coley
If you are operating as a company then forget it as the revenue will be down on you like a ton of bricks!
All you need is a VAT audit and they will suss you out.
If you are a private individual however, how would they know? Just remember that the VAT will already have been paid by the person importing the goods.
If you are not registered for VAT then you cannot charge it.....or claim it back for that matter lol
Just my twopence worth....
Coley
My intention is to try and set-up this non-VAT company (as my turnover will be below the VAT limit of £63K) to serve, and encourage, the electronics hobbyist in the UK. I'm intending to set-up an on-line store, with Prop' related tutorials.
I'll be doing this in my spare time (wife & two kids mean I can't ditch the day job just yet - boo hoo!), with a view to building it up over time.
I'm prepared to stock a small range of items, but it'd be good to know what people would like those to be.
At the moment I'm busy sorting the website. With any luck, and a following wind, I should have that sorted in the next 6-12 weeks. The more UK hobbyists who show support, the more likely it is to happen...
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)
BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
> to serve, and encourage, the electronics hobbyist in the UK.
But then you'll still have to pay VAT on top of the imported goods. Plus customs (low, something like 3%).
As soon as goods cross the border to Euro-land, you have to pay VAT. Within the EU, no taxes apply. Only thing you could do is live in a EU-country with low VAT. Luxemburg with 15% for example.
Nick
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Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
Sorry, I just re-read my post and it doesn't say what I meant! What I meant to say was: I won't be VAT registered - so can't claim any VAT back - so the VAT I have to pay on imported goods would simply be passed on to my customers.
I guess the whole business model will depend on how much stock I can afford to keep; what size / value of orders I place; and the associated postage costs. Add to that any mark-up I'll need to add, and it'll really depend on any discounts I can negotiate - so it might never happen LOL
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)
BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
I've made small orders from the US (to Canada) that the broker fee ended up being more than the item's value. So it certainly pays to make larger orders as this is a per shipment charge.
If you use FedEx or UPS they have their own broker which I'm pretty sure doesn't charge as much as a regular broker.
I don't mind paying the extra few bucks to be able to pick it up at my convenience.
cheers
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<FONT>Steve
What's the best thing to do in a lightning storm? "take a one iron out the bag and hold it straight up above your head, even God cant hit a one iron!"
Lee Travino after the second time being hit by lightning!
I've not got much business acumen and could not see how I could make it work commercially although that's not your prime intent. Once you add on duty, import VAT, import shipping costs, cost of re-packaging, local postage and take a cut to make the effort all worthwhile ( it takes time if you need to go to a Post Office to ship your orders ) the price can go up quite considerably, especially on low quantity, small value orders such as individual Propeller Chips and there's a danger of being no more competitive than the existing dealers.
The most profitable routes are large quantity orders to secure good discounts and high value orders to gain free shipping. If you cannot get either you don't have a lot of savings to pass on to customers.
Hopefully you're of a less pessimistic disposition than I am and can find a way to make it work. The other alternative I can see is in trying to convince an existing electronics supplier to the home / hobby / small business market in the UK who already imports to take on Propeller stock. There are quite a few smaller businesses which supply similar imported micro parts and systems in the UK.
Key to commercial success is making people aware of the Propeller to drive up demand and sales in the first place. I hadn't heard of the Propeller until well after its launch and I doubt I am alone. Promotion and marketing outside America is perhaps something which Parallax themselves could help with along with helping to find ways in reducing total purchase and shipping costs for overseas distributors ?
I used to run this little business: www.indoor.flyer.co.uk and I imported batteries from Korea and parts from Switzerland and Canada and it is possible to make it work but really it requires some real effort if you are doing it for more than alturistic reasons!
1. It's wise to advertise
2. It's a very good idea to have seperate bank accounts or you can end up spending the money needed for stock on toys!
3. It's probably worth getting VAT registered, just because you can buy things you need for your business and not pay VAT.
4. You need to keep on top of orders, a bad rep ruins the business, same goes for stock levels and even your prices (you must check exchange rates etc frequently)
5. Be careful that you tell the tax man about your profits otherwise you may get in trouble, consider if after tax the aditional money is worth the hastle.
6. Really think about why you want to do it, if it's not to make a business then probably forget it, doing it for the love of it should happen during the day not after work.
7. Make shipping costs fair but don't short change yourself either, time is money too.
Steve,
the brokerage is very similar where as the shipping cost is very different. USPS wins on cost nearly everytime. Plus you sometimes slip through the net with the post office but NEVER with UPS or FEDEX
Graham
@hippy - yeah, all that's been going through my head, and I'm starting to feel that you're probably right - but, I'm a stubborn sort and that voice in my head's saying "yeah, but you can still do it"! So i'll mull it over a while longer I think. I got the electronics 'bug' when I first realised I _could_ program a PIC using ProtonBASIC, and then I found the Propeller - WHOA! No interrupts, yay! I'd really like to get others in the UK enthused about this stuff too, and that's my drive - but then economics drags me back to reality :-(
@Graham - It's really great to get good advice from someone who's "been there; done that" - much appreciated.
Now, I'll have to work out a way to get Parallax to give me good discount and lower the postage I guess - wish me luck!
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Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)
BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style