Pricing difference between old and new Parallax web sites (ww1.parallax.com is
Jo
Posts: 55
Has anybody noticed that there is a price differential between the old and new parallax websites?
For example, the propeller protoboard is $24.95 at http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=32212
but is only $19.95 at http://ww1.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/CategoryID/73/List/0/Level/a/ProductID/423/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName
[noparse][[/noparse]feeling a little stupid as I recently completed an order without having checked the new site first]
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
---
Jo
For example, the propeller protoboard is $24.95 at http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=32212
but is only $19.95 at http://ww1.parallax.com/Store/Microcontrollers/PropellerDevelopmentBoards/tabid/514/CategoryID/73/List/0/Level/a/ProductID/423/Default.aspx?SortField=ProductName,ProductName
[noparse][[/noparse]feeling a little stupid as I recently completed an order without having checked the new site first]
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
---
Jo
Comments
I order all my stuff from around the world, and parallax is the most expensive shipper that is on the market.
Normaly i would order more stuff from them ,
But if i have to pay for a order of 25 propeller chips 83 $ on top why order more chips, when the money you save is shipping again.
I hope parallx dont have to earn now there bucks on shipping.
But they would get more orders when they would have prices for USPS, what are real. like 25 $ to Canada and 35 to internatinal.
Since i know that, i ship to US for canada every day. And my customer only pay 24$ express shipping.
But anny way the prop is the nicest chip on earth.
Anubisbot
take all you see on the new website with a pinch of salt. I think it is still a work in progress.
Not only the weird pricing, but also some of the information is out of date with respect to the primary web site.
For example, the Propeller IDE version on ww1.parallax.com is the old 1.05.5, whereas the primary web site has the latest and greatest 1.05.8
For now I just plan to ignore the ww1.parallax.com site
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
---
Jo
I personally think Parallax should get their shipping done for free... How about a deal with FedEx:
FedEx gives Parallax free shipping anywhere in the world ... and in exchange they get to use THE LOGO in FedEx adds... something like: "FedEx is the preferred shipper for Parallax Products World wide."
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
"... one of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that, lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C programs." -
"If Python is executable pseudocode, then perl is executable line noise."
"The best accelerator available for a Mac is one that causes it to go at 9.81 m/s2."
"My software never has bugs. It just develops random features."
"Windows isn't a virus, viruses do something."
"Programmers are tools for converting caffeine into code."
"Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue."
And you have to admit... THAT LOGO would spruce up just about anyone's of commercial[noparse]:)[/noparse]
The UK distributer bumps up the prices and does not ship the full range anyway.
Low shipping costs can be a loss leader, it allows people to buy just the odd part when they need to (not very profitable for parallax) but overall they spend more (profitable for parallax). I don't think free would be an option but I don't see why everything must go through fedex.
Graham
Maybe overseas ( or UK at least ) should be normal shipping costs, as it starts to get rediculous [noparse]:([/noparse]
besides, I'm hooked on the prop as you can probably guess [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Baggers.
Cheers,
Graham
p.s. Worth a try, you can slip me that fiver later [noparse];)[/noparse]
Why don't you buy and support your local distributors in your own neck of the woods.
That does save you money on shipping for sure..
Try it.... Milford in the UK
Antratek in The Netherlands....
Sure there is a German distributor .. is it Elmicro or Electronic Laden..??
cheers
Ron Melbourne Australia
"The UK distributer bumps up the prices and does not ship the full range anyway."
In Germany, it is PTL-Elektronik. Elektronikladen is the distributor, but doesn't sell to privates.
<http://www.ptl-elektronik.de/>
The good thing about PTL is, that they are in Munich too. So I can get my Propellers the day I want them.
Need some SMD-Props next week.
Nick
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Never use force, just go for a bigger hammer!
The DIY Digital-Readout for mills, lathes etc.:
YADRO
I'm still trying to figure a way to do something, but postage & customs keep stimeying any options. I'd love to hear your thoughts...
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Cheers,
Simon
www.norfolkhelicopterclub.co.uk
You'll always have as many take-offs as landings, the trick is to be sure you can take-off again ;-)
BTW: I type as I'm thinking, so please don't take any offense at my writing style
A very good distrubutor is www.zerko.ch; but as Swizzerland is neither part of the EU nor of Euroland, there are other disadvantages....
Most other distributers offer a small part of Parallax's range of products only.
Prices can be exobitant: 16 Euro (incl. VAT) for a Chip = $ 23 is common.
When friends visit the US they bring some "souvenirs" - it's the only way to do it.....
It really depends on what you are trying to do; provide cheap propeller kit on an ad hoc basis for hobbyists or run a business as a Propeller kit dealer / redistributer.
I have to agree that the mark-up in the UK is high and inconsistent across the entire (limited) range available here. The proto boards are the best value for money IMHO which is what I went for ...
UK equiv USD USA USD Price Markup Propeller Chip $19 $13 38% Propeller Proto Board $33 $25 32% Prop Clip / Prop Plug $40 $30 33% PropStick (RS232) $130 (asm) $80 (kit) 60% Propeller Accessory Kit $150 $100 50% Propeller Demo Board $158 $130 20% Propeller Starter Kit $190 $150 26% Hydra Development Kit $330 $200 65%Price markups are offset by reduced shipping ( $19 for 2 x Proto boards ) compared to buying from the US but it's a real shame the Proto Board Accessory Kit ( VGA + PS/2 sockets ) is not available in the UK.
I don't think people in the US always appreciate how much it costs to buy US produced components in the UK or the impact that high shipping costs and import duty has. Some US companies manage a flat $10 shipping charge but most often than not it is far higher.
Milford Instruments does not come over as the most professional outfit in the world ( no online ordering, hardly 'cutting edge' web design ), but I've found them pleasant enough to deal with without problems. Perhaps the best course for UK customers seeking to use the Propeller is to talk to them, encourage them to stock a wider range, and see if they can negotiate better discounts with Parallax.
I don't personally believe the Propeller will win hearts and minds in the UK as much as it could until prices can be lowered here. For commercial use it's not so much a problem, but for hobbyist and home users the costs are quite prohibitive.
I don't understand the exact situation in Europe... is the EU a free trade zone or not? I know that it costs more to take a train from Paris to the Haag than it does to take a train from the Haag to Paris. Same train, same crew... different prices[noparse]:)[/noparse]
1 Can you get rid of your various import duties by using a trans-shipment point ... such as Italy. The Italians seem to know how to do these things.
2) One way to keep costs down is by keeping costs down:
I'm sure that Parallax would prefer to put together a few orders a month for the UK rather than a few dozen... an intermediate step toward a full distribution agreement would be forming a buyer's club, where each guy would plan to spend at least a certain amount on Parallax Products each month or quarter... and then you could go to Parallax and try to get a price break based on the argument that your approach would lower Parallax's costs.
and
C: I would look for exemptions to the various duties... there must be dozens of them. Then configure yourself as an organization, which meets the exemption.... that would give you added help in forming either a buyer's club or leg up in the distribution business.
In the U.S. if I buy a part... with the intention of putting that part into a product for sale... then most if not all taxes get waived. I can file with a State as a business using a single form and the cost is less than $50/year. AND I can pick the cheapest State in which to file. I haven't done this for a while... so I really don't know the current state of the law. It used to be that a Federal Tax ID number spared us of all consumer related taxes... I would guess that this is a pretty general type of exemption in most countries... but I don't know the situation in Europe. If this happens to be the case then you would need to have a business structure (which could be a for profit company or a non-profit foundation of some sort), which could also serve your buying club or distribution company.
Do local governments and schools sometimes get exempted from these taxes? If so, then you might be able to go to your locals and tell them that you have plans that will lead to future jobs in the area, but right now you need some help... what can you do together?
Again, anything you achieve can be made to serve your other goals and bring you to the attention of people that are looking for investment opportunities.
Try RadioShack... for $5k a month you might be able to buy a frachise... again you would want partners and you want them to find you ... not the other way around.
4. Develop a Propeller based inventory control system... you are going to need one and you want it to be cheap and completely under your control. Then when your new partners find you... you will be ready for them.
Rich
Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing.
Cheers
I THINK, there is just no market in - say - Germany at the moment; I judge from the forums....
No distributor imports 1,000 pcs, it would take him years sell them
Vicious cycle: high price -> little demand -> high price
I couldn't agree more!
deSilva has it correct, at the moment in the UK I can find two suppliers of the Prop.
P8X32A-D40
Milford Instruments ( £9 or $18 each + TAX and Shipping)...not too bad considering....
Farnell ( £14 or $28 each + TAX and Shipping ) .....OUCH....
So what do I do?
Import them from Digikey in the states at £6.45 each and I get free shipping if I buy £100 worth of goods..still have to pay TAX though
It's hard enough to get a new chip off and running without this added pressure.
Just my two pence worth lol
Coley
As usual, I can't really disagree with you. Just to elaborate... and please correct me if I am wrong.
England is more a part of the United States (or visa versa) than it is a part of Europe. AND I am correct about the Italians.
For a company like Parallax... it really doesn't pay them to try to understand Europe... leave that to the Europeans. If I were to give advice to Parallax about Europe I would tell them that they are up against fairly rigid thinking and anything they can do to help the early adopters, they should do. Treat Europe as a special case.
I've spent a little time in Europe... and I was amazed at how much attention is given to figuring out just how much an individual should be paid and what he or she can or cannot do... there really isn't a free market when it gets down to the individual... except for marriage. That seems to be a free and open market.
In the Netherlands (for example) you can't just start a business... you have to engage in a year long process, which involves mandatory classes.
England is a little different... England still teaches egalitarean logic and England still wants to build a more egalitarean society. The basic social constructs are very similar to the U.S... but not so far from the European that they cannot relate in a civil manner.
I am still interested in the questions that I asked... if anyoine knows.
Rich
The situation is much stricter in Germany: You have to do serious business before you get suspension from paying VAT.
Of course it's diffficult to check, and no one will notice most likely, but nevertheless you have to quarterly report and fill in lots of forms.
Buying things as chips and soldering them together is considered a "hobby", and there are no tax reductions ESPECIALLY for hobbies
As VAT is 20% (which is not even the highest in Europe) this is annoying.
Other tax reductions can be granted if you can prove this "hobby" will improve your professional skills.
An attestation from your employer will help in most cases..
Again this is annoying.
It could drive you to play with PICs
Post Edited (deSilva) : 11/6/2007 3:21:06 PM GMT
Due to markup inconsistencies, having to source components from multiple sources, I calculated I could not manufacture a Propeller on PCB with similar functionality as the Proto Board at the same cost a Proto Board can already be purchased for in the UK. The most cost effective application is perhaps in providing peripheral video capability, and it needs to deliver high quality PAL output for that. I still haven't managed to achieve that.
The falling dollar should notionally help UK purchasers, but reality is that resellers simply make a bigger profit.
High prices are I'm afraid going to keep the Propeller from becoming ubiquitous in the UK ( and elsewhere ). The PICAXE stepped in as a low-cost BS1 alternative and has consequently captured a large education and hobby market in the UK as well as overseas. I don't see any alternatives to the Propeller in the near to medium future. Unfortunately that means everyone loses.
Much as I love the Propeller, I do wonder if it is doomed to become a niche product in the UK and that I would be better off expending my energies in some other direction.
The package weighed 0.5KG inc packaging.
Yet others I know have recently purchased parts from the USA (Engine Parts). The package weighed in 5kg and was 1.2 metres long. The freight cost was the same $US65.00. The delivery time was the same, 8 Days.
Sure, the mechanical Parts cost over $US1000, but should that make a difference ?
Ron
I have some contacts at British Airways... I could probably get you free shipping to Nairobi[noparse]:)[/noparse] Why don't you use a little charm and see if you can set up something counter to counter a little closer to home. Nobody will give you any grief... promise.
Rich
Probably a minimum charge... that's why volume purchases and shipments make sense.
et al
The VAT has to be the stupidest (stupid, stupider, stupidest) tax in history. Invented in France[noparse]:)[/noparse]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_added_tax
It does appear that the VAT may is recoverable if in fact the VAT was paid for an intermediate product or service, which led to the final sale or delivery of a final product or service... So a chip should be VAT free... because it has no direct use. And a board should be VAT free if you intend to do anything to it before using it.
In summary, don't worry about the VAT, it is just like money in the bank[noparse]:)[/noparse]
Although the article doesn't seem to mention it... the VAT also serves as an effective TARIFF and encourage large scales of operation, since the internal production of parts and services cannot be rationally taxed... only trade items between companies our countries is subject to the VAT.
One of the original intentions was also to hide the tax from the consumers view... that doesn't seem to have worked.
In theory you should only have to pay a VAT when you get your product home... if you take it to your place of business, it should be exempt. Then could loan it to yourself and take it home.
Maybe Parallax could create a VAT loophole by registering developers... so when your lawyer pleads the case in court he can say: "My client is a registered developer for Parallax Propeller development... look at my client, see that solar power propeller on his hat? That propeller means he is VAT exempt."
AND in theory... at each exchange of intermediate products along the way to a final product the VAT is applied but only to the incremental change in value...
That means that your Government is stupid enough to believe that it can follow every nut until it ends up in a crankshaft on the showroom floor.
There must be massive cheating going on in Europe. Which must be one reason why European politics is so screwy. The people get to vote... but what they vote on is who gets the right to cheat...no wonder our troops are still there.
Although it's not Sales Tax it is effectively the same, applicable to services as well as to physical product. Basically, if someone is paying you for something the government wants a cut, and this is one way to achieve it.
It's more complicated than that, at least in the UK. A company can be set up so that (1) it can reclaim any VAT it pays on purchases but has to charge VAT on all it sells, or (2) it is not allowed to reclaim VAT on any purchases but then does not need to add VAT on what it sells. At a certain turnover ( or some point anyway ) the company has no option of (2) and has to do (1).
Companies working under (1) do therefore hold their purchases "free of VAT". If as a company they loan something to an individual, then that individual may end up caught by having to pay income tax on 'benefits in kind'. As everywhere, the tax man is well aware of all the tricks which can be used to try and avoid paying VAT or income tax and they make it their job to prevent that.
In the UK I very much doubt it.
Apart from VAT exempt items, an individual will be paying VAT to the person they are buying from or it will have already been paid by someone else further up the supply chain. Where the chain from creation of item to end-user sale goes through type (2) companies only, items may escape VAT, but by the nature of type (2) companies there wouldn't be much in the way of very profitable business in that chain.
In fact it is simplicity itself:
- You buy things
- You sell things
Asuming the same VAT rate - say - 20%, you pay this tax: 20% * (Sold-Bought)
This has to be payed each quarter ofthe year IN ADVANCE.
In very few cases you can reclaim tax, but only to equalize between quartals. It does not work to buy only, and sell nothing
The main advantage - and what makes VAT more just than older systems - is that the total tax is limited to 20% of the end (netto) price, independend of the number of processing steps in between.
The chances to successfully cheat with VAT are much lower that the chances to cheat with your balance.
The potential for fraud is in excess reclaiming of VAT on items not purchased or in under payment of VAT due on claimed sales lower than they actually were. Opportunities to cheat are no greater than under any other system of tax collection.
Careful; you're starting to sound even more anti-European and that could open up a whole can of worms which this forum could do without.