Jan,
Your program works fine on our setups- including the "Propeller Starter Kit", and the "Propeller Protoboard". I'm assuming you got the tutorials working? Ie, use the "Load" button to load a pre-compiled binary file? If yes, then please open the corresponding spin files in the Parallax Propeller Tool, load to eeprom, then connect with Viewport. Your data shows me that the Propeller is sending some type of data back to Viewport. The data should be sent at 2mbps- that's why it looks so garbled when viewing at 115kpbs. When did you first download Viewport? If you're using an old version (more than a week old) there's a chance you're using an older ViewportConduit- a reinstall of Viewport would solve this.
I'm assuming a PropStick is similar to the StarterKit/Protoboard ie:
- Serial TX, RX on pins 30, 31
- 5Mhz crystal connected to Xin
Hanno
I've been testing Viewport quite a bit over the last couple of days.. and I've noticed a couple of small anomalies.
Mainly I have been running it inside a VM on my linux machine (lives alongside the proptool). I've noticed a couple of things and did an install on a native windows installation just to be fair to the software (the VM can be a challenging environment to run under some times).
When Viewport is running, connected or not, it uses at least 70% cpu on my laptop (raw win2k on the metal - 800Mhz PIII). It uses in excess of 90% in my VM. It makes no difference if the prop is connected or any settings I tweak in Viewport.
When Viewport is not completely minimised to the taskbar, it interferes with the communication between the proptool and the hardware. If I minimise it to the taskbar that goes away. The exact symptom is the tool can find the propeller, it loads (or appears to) it's ram, and then it never gets the verify back from the prop (can see the blue light on the demo board flashing furiously as it loads the ram, then blinking lazily while waiting for a response back). Click the minimise icon on the Viewport window and next try works perfectly. Again, this happens in both environments. The only common things between the two environments are Viewport and the proptool (and associated FTDI drivers). Everything else is completely different.
Viewport does not play nicely with other devices if you have it on a USB1.1 bus. (Not a complaint, more an observation).
My environments are :
Virtualbox running Win XP on a 1.8Ghz dual core Mac Mini with 2GB ram
Win2k on a PIII-M 800 with 1GB ram.
Both have the latest .NET 2.0 runtime and all patches installed
On another note, I've been having a lot of problems with triggering at high speed when running in the VM, this is marginally better when on the laptop, so I'm assuming its something to do with communications latency or similar..
I don't really have any fast machines with windows on the bare metal that I could help test with (the install on the laptop is just a 4GB partition I keep around for situations like this).
BradC,
Thanks for your testing. I'm amazed Viewport runs on a Mac, inside a virtual machine and on Windows 2K. We had only tested on WinXP and on relatively modern hardware.
We have several users who are successfully using Viewport for their everyday work on 500Mhz machines- this is probably the slowest setup we would recommend.
Viewport continually refreshes the screen with the latest measurements- even when not connected. When connected, it continually processes the incoming data- efficient for the prop, but not on Windows with its multiple levels of buffers. This can not be optimized much more- and since it's running on 500Mhz machines not a high priority for us. With the future features of virtual channels and advanced triggers the CPU demands will increase slightly when using those features.
By default, Viewport "disconnects" when it's no longer the active window- for example it's minimized. This allows the PropTool to communicate with the Propeller. Again, by default, it will reconnect when it becomes the active window again. This should allow you to efficiently switch between using Viewport for diagnostics and PropTool for development. These settings can be changed under Edit/Preferences. Of course, you can hit the "connect" button to manually connect/disconnect. All this is to get around the limitation that only 1 program can use a Com port at a time.
I don't know why Viewport wouldn't play nicely with USB v1.1 devices- could be that the USB bus has troubles keeping up with the continuous fast datarate.
On another note we seem to have found a bug related to using applets 2 and 3: If you have trouble using them when Viewport first starts, try starting with another applet and THEN load the 20/80Mhz LSA.
Hi Hanno,
I fear it is·a dead end. I have uploaded fresh version of Viewport last night - for the first time - did not worked as already reported.
After reading other posts in the thread I suspect, the reason·it does not work is due to separate USB <--> Rs232 plug I'm using - photo attached.
Could it be because of that·my prop can't comunicate fast enough w/ PC & Viewport?
You have mention earlier fast fedback is essential for some digi-scope functions.
I was hooping to use Viewport to debug my serial transmission problems at 9600 baud·to·some other device·for which ~50kHz transmission from prop --> PC should be sufficient.
Is there any chance you cold reliese a degaraded version of Viewport working at lower connection rate, perhaps with lower max sampling frequency?
In any case it would help if Vieport upon failure to connect would at least try to read prop signal at lower rates and display what was the actual (potential) connection rate , even if at the end it aborts.
I wish I could use your Viewport, but at the moment can't invest in the new prop with build in usb port.
Unless you can advice me how to make my setup to work.
Thanks
Jan
Hi Jan,
I fear you are right- I can't quite make out what USB-Serial chip you are using, but it doesn't look like the one on the Parallax PropPlug. Viewport relies on a 2mbps connection to transmit data quickly to the PC. Parallax sells a great "PropPlug"- it's even on sale right now- $26! www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=32201
This, or a similar solution is required at this point to run Viewport.
I really would prefer to add new additional features to Viewport rather than forcing it to work in edge cases. Especially in this case- $26 buys you something you can use for other projects and it gets you Viewport at full speed. That having been said- we are always available for "consulting" - but that'll cost much more than $26!
Comments
one more detail: prop is sending sth back to PC. I let the LED code run, and look at Rx line using
basicStapm debug window. I see:
[code]
Your program works fine on our setups- including the "Propeller Starter Kit", and the "Propeller Protoboard". I'm assuming you got the tutorials working? Ie, use the "Load" button to load a pre-compiled binary file? If yes, then please open the corresponding spin files in the Parallax Propeller Tool, load to eeprom, then connect with Viewport. Your data shows me that the Propeller is sending some type of data back to Viewport. The data should be sent at 2mbps- that's why it looks so garbled when viewing at 115kpbs. When did you first download Viewport? If you're using an old version (more than a week old) there's a chance you're using an older ViewportConduit- a reinstall of Viewport would solve this.
I'm assuming a PropStick is similar to the StarterKit/Protoboard ie:
- Serial TX, RX on pins 30, 31
- 5Mhz crystal connected to Xin
Hanno
Mainly I have been running it inside a VM on my linux machine (lives alongside the proptool). I've noticed a couple of things and did an install on a native windows installation just to be fair to the software (the VM can be a challenging environment to run under some times).
When Viewport is running, connected or not, it uses at least 70% cpu on my laptop (raw win2k on the metal - 800Mhz PIII). It uses in excess of 90% in my VM. It makes no difference if the prop is connected or any settings I tweak in Viewport.
When Viewport is not completely minimised to the taskbar, it interferes with the communication between the proptool and the hardware. If I minimise it to the taskbar that goes away. The exact symptom is the tool can find the propeller, it loads (or appears to) it's ram, and then it never gets the verify back from the prop (can see the blue light on the demo board flashing furiously as it loads the ram, then blinking lazily while waiting for a response back). Click the minimise icon on the Viewport window and next try works perfectly. Again, this happens in both environments. The only common things between the two environments are Viewport and the proptool (and associated FTDI drivers). Everything else is completely different.
Viewport does not play nicely with other devices if you have it on a USB1.1 bus. (Not a complaint, more an observation).
My environments are :
Virtualbox running Win XP on a 1.8Ghz dual core Mac Mini with 2GB ram
Win2k on a PIII-M 800 with 1GB ram.
Both have the latest .NET 2.0 runtime and all patches installed
On another note, I've been having a lot of problems with triggering at high speed when running in the VM, this is marginally better when on the laptop, so I'm assuming its something to do with communications latency or similar..
I don't really have any fast machines with windows on the bare metal that I could help test with (the install on the laptop is just a 4GB partition I keep around for situations like this).
Thanks for your testing. I'm amazed Viewport runs on a Mac, inside a virtual machine and on Windows 2K. We had only tested on WinXP and on relatively modern hardware.
We have several users who are successfully using Viewport for their everyday work on 500Mhz machines- this is probably the slowest setup we would recommend.
Viewport continually refreshes the screen with the latest measurements- even when not connected. When connected, it continually processes the incoming data- efficient for the prop, but not on Windows with its multiple levels of buffers. This can not be optimized much more- and since it's running on 500Mhz machines not a high priority for us. With the future features of virtual channels and advanced triggers the CPU demands will increase slightly when using those features.
By default, Viewport "disconnects" when it's no longer the active window- for example it's minimized. This allows the PropTool to communicate with the Propeller. Again, by default, it will reconnect when it becomes the active window again. This should allow you to efficiently switch between using Viewport for diagnostics and PropTool for development. These settings can be changed under Edit/Preferences. Of course, you can hit the "connect" button to manually connect/disconnect. All this is to get around the limitation that only 1 program can use a Com port at a time.
I don't know why Viewport wouldn't play nicely with USB v1.1 devices- could be that the USB bus has troubles keeping up with the continuous fast datarate.
On another note we seem to have found a bug related to using applets 2 and 3: If you have trouble using them when Viewport first starts, try starting with another applet and THEN load the 20/80Mhz LSA.
I fear it is·a dead end. I have uploaded fresh version of Viewport last night - for the first time - did not worked as already reported.
After reading other posts in the thread I suspect, the reason·it does not work is due to separate USB <--> Rs232 plug I'm using - photo attached.
Could it be because of that·my prop can't comunicate fast enough w/ PC & Viewport?
You have mention earlier fast fedback is essential for some digi-scope functions.
I was hooping to use Viewport to debug my serial transmission problems at 9600 baud·to·some other device·for which ~50kHz transmission from prop --> PC should be sufficient.
Is there any chance you cold reliese a degaraded version of Viewport working at lower connection rate, perhaps with lower max sampling frequency?
In any case it would help if Vieport upon failure to connect would at least try to read prop signal at lower rates and display what was the actual (potential) connection rate , even if at the end it aborts.
I wish I could use your Viewport, but at the moment can't invest in the new prop with build in usb port.
Unless you can advice me how to make my setup to work.
Thanks
Jan
I fear you are right- I can't quite make out what USB-Serial chip you are using, but it doesn't look like the one on the Parallax PropPlug. Viewport relies on a 2mbps connection to transmit data quickly to the PC. Parallax sells a great "PropPlug"- it's even on sale right now- $26!
www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=32201
This, or a similar solution is required at this point to run Viewport.
I really would prefer to add new additional features to Viewport rather than forcing it to work in edge cases. Especially in this case- $26 buys you something you can use for other projects and it gets you Viewport at full speed. That having been said- we are always available for "consulting" - but that'll cost much more than $26!