Argh! No TV-OUT with the propeller proto board?
Jason Hickner
Posts: 21
I just came an inch from accidentally purchasing a 5-pack of proto-boards and accessory kits before I noticed they don't include TV-OUT! It didn't even occur to me that feature might be left out, I just noticed it by accident. Anyone know why it isn't included? And is there a different board available anywhere with a similar price ($25) that gets you up and running with a prop and tv out?
Thanks!
- Jason
Thanks!
- Jason
Comments
That's the beauty of the Protoboard. Uncluttered, nothing used up. Everything available for you.
Adding NTSC or PAL is simple. Just add a few resistors and download a TV-driver.
The Protoboard is amazing value for money. I didn't believe my eyes when I saw the price. Buy ten - you will not regret it!
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If you're not sure of the resistor values, look at the Demo Board schematic or the schematic for Bean's Prop Dongle:
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=653637.
Bean's version is about twice as expensive as the Protoboard, but includes the USB to serial adapter and runs the Prop off the USB power supply. It includes the TV output and a 128K byte boot EEPROM, but drops about 12 of the I/O pins in the interest of space.
Post Edited (Mike Green) : 7/1/2007 5:29:18 AM GMT
There are interfaces for Mouse, Keyboard, and VGA on board - just not complete unless you buy a 2nd kit.
Yes, you can avoid the 2nd kit and have use of all 32 I/O pins. It looks to me that you could even trim the board to a smaller foot print with a hacksaw[noparse][[/noparse]but I wouuld buy the Propeller Stamp instead].
BTW, I have managed to use generic parts for VGA, Keyboard, and Mouse and avoid buying the kit. It is a bit funky [noparse][[/noparse]because the VGA has to be crammed in at a slant], but it makes the Proto Board the most affordable if you have a serial interface for it. Use 1/8 watt resistors if you can.
I bought the 5 pack and really am pleased
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"Everything in the world is purchased by labour; and our passions are the only causes of labor." -- David·Hume (1711-76)········
Color video is (was?) the single biggest hurdle for me. Its vital for what I wanted to do but generating getting video with small microcontrollers is typically horribly expensive AND slow. Even with the protoboard is just a matter of a connector and a few resistors. That beats the hell out of an off-chip QFP controller, multiple power supplies, external crystals, etc, etc.
So go ahead, the only work involved is a connector and resistors - easy!
My point is that you don't have to. And that all I/O are totally free. At least the 30 first. I love that.
Besides, the resistors I had in my scrap box weren't exactly the values recommended for the TV output, but it works very well with values being up to 20 % off. So it is not a big problem creating the TV output.
There were no 5-packs available in Sweden. So, I bought ten boards and got a good discount. Use them for lots of little things that needs to be done. A very nice multi-channel encoder to analogue converter for recording speed deviations in paper machines is on its way. The counters are just great for that. And a special measuring device for bearing EDM. You can say I am hooked on the Propeller. Great stuff. And, being of a certain age, I find the educational material awesome. I even feel smart as I go along learning more and more each day.
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If seems like a good plug in module for DIY printed circuit board projects. Of course, you also have to deal with the programing interface.
Additionally, you would still have a 5.0v and 3.3v supply as a separate board. Quite handy if you want a Propeller in an R/C aircraft.
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"Everything in the world is purchased by labour; and our passions are the only causes of labor." -- David·Hume (1711-76)········
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Definetly a E3 (Electronics Engineer Extrodinare!)
"I laugh in the face of imposible,... not because i know it all, ... but because I don't know well enough!"
Yes, it would have been convenient if space for a TV out connector had been provided.
My approach was to use one of several 'RCA-type' connectors salvaged from an old game unit, 'mounted' on two clear adhesive backed 'feet' to raise it about 0.2" above the pc board and tied down with some heavy wire. With a bit of care while attaching/removing the cable, this has worked out very well.
I first installed the resistors; makes access during soldering easier. Just below the yellow body you can see the arc of the clear 'foot'. And, yes, that is a second DIP Prop on this board. This prototype has since been replaced with a full pcb design of about a 6 x 6" size. The prototype was invaluable for beginning of that project.
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Harley Shanko
h.a.s. designn
Graham
Harley - I'm curious, what's the second prop for?
(cuts like butter)·I·hadn't·added the propplug header yet in this pic, but it did the trick.
A·fully functional prop with a small footprint that I didn't have to build from scratch.
fish
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". . . the fog is rising"~ Emily Dickinson
Post Edited (fish) : 7/1/2007 8:42:54 PM GMT
I have found the Propeller Education Kit invaluable. It takes some time to work through the material. But it is definitely worth it. See http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=25&m=156644
There is also Graham Stabler's assembler step by step course and if you have a specific problem, there are many guys (and girls) willing to help you out. Mike Green is one of them that is like a deep well with high-quality water in it. And many others. The Hydra manual is also very good. Andr
Almost seems a shame to cut up a Prop ProtoBoard. But for a one-off project, can be justified for its relatively low cost.
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Harley Shanko
h.a.s. designn
Sort of. I am wondering these days why parallel lcd·programs don't seem to treat the chip enable line as a system clock and feed a ctra/ctrb squarewave.· Or if I can minimize a parallel lcd's data lines with a serial to parallel ic (74hc595).
I love my PE Kit, bought a 2nd one, and a third for a friend. For a raw start, ie no equipment, no experience,·and no spare parts,·the PE Kit can't be·beat. Plus all that I/O is mine to play with. The Proto board is cheaper·so I have five of them too.
It's the hardware, specifically on the Proto boards -- there's stuff on them that's smaller than a mouse turd and way harder to see -- that's·where I was asking for help. Me and solder would have a hard time with stuff that small without expert advice.
Fred
For some of us, working with today's ICs and parts, reading glasses isn't sufficient. For me, a 'head mounted magnifier' allows one to continue seeing all the small details. I've yet to solder a QFP part. But suppose one of these days or years I may. Have read up on what's involved; means a temperature controlled soldering iron probably, flux and solder wick will have to be purchased. Sigh!! Don't you just love the progress?
If one cut out the Prop ProtoBoard Prop area + header pads, it all is on a 1.5" square pcb...the reset switch, Prop, crystal and 64KB of EEPROM.
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Harley Shanko
h.a.s. designn
cheers
fish
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". . . the fog is rising"~ Emily Dickinson
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Definetly a E3 (Electronics Engineer Extrodinare!)
"I laugh in the face of imposible,... not because i know it all, ... but because I don't know well enough!"
Looks good.
Were you able to salvage the power supply? You can make that even smaller [noparse][[/noparse]a square] if you don't need the extra space for screw holes or misc. items.
Dremel tool is a good choice. A mill bastard file will make the sides perfectly straight and works well on the fiberglass board. I would round the corners a bit.
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"Everything in the world is purchased by labour; and our passions are the only causes of labor." -- David·Hume (1711-76)········
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_mount
May be some help. Don't be scared by surface mount, its just like normal stuff with the legs cut off and the resistors even have the values written on them!
Ditto on a magnifier and before that good light.
Graham
I would love to see a demo board PCB extended with an SD socket.
For my personal project, I'm probably going to give Eagle a go; I want keyboard, mouse, VGA, TV out,
line-level sound out, 6-9V in (so two regulators), SD card, prop clip, and that's it. Board level connectors
all. Using the QFP package (going to have to learn to solder SMT). (This is for the retro microcomputer
replacement project; imagine a Coco-level machine with 2GB SD and the processing power of the Prop.)
Now I think they rule. Especially with the little swivel-in high-magnification loupe on it; you can really go
detailed on the thing.
Soldering without one is like soldering blindfolded.
rokiki, fish, Graham and a few others have all of the skill required to build a little Prop machine for one-off SMT placement and soldering.
I have a great set of loups... and I'm still a lousy solderer...As proof, I now have a proto board which does VGA text... but not VGA graphics... go figure. (My potentiometer mod for the video circuit works just fine[noparse]:)[/noparse]
My advice... if you want to do SMT... build a robot to do it.
Rich
Graham
I suck at soldering and yet I still do smt chips, resistors, and caps. You have to be careful to choose the larger formats of caps and resistors (1206 is much easier than the 08?? ones). It ain't pretty when I do it, but it works.
I find it easiest if I plate a corner pad with solder then heat the leg of the chip enough to melt the solder and position the chip. Once its lined up, solder from the opposite corner.
For the resistors and caps, cut apart a coat hanger, screw one end to your desk then put a bend in the rest so that it naturally sits against your table. Position the board so that the end sits where the pads are, put the item on the pads and use the coat hanger to keep it there. Then solder away.
I've even done QFP chips, though I avoid if at all possible. 8 pin or 14 pin ain't so bad, but when looking for bridges on a 100 pin... arg!
·
I actually enjoy the process... except that I sometimes create statuary rather than working electronics[noparse]:)[/noparse]
"What's that?"... "oh... that's a statue... I call it 'protobust.'
Rich
Conductive superglue is probably a bad idea... people would glue their eye's shut... I've seen that.
Rich
Is there a disadvantage to having ones eyes glued together conductively?
Graham
Which got me to thinking: using my digital camera on a tripod and its macro view to feed a tv set. Voila: 2/3rds of the proto board is now 27 inch diagonal. And if I use a pc with a tv input, I can even magnify the view...
Of course, there's this: smt to board, "uh oh, here comes that fat iron with Parkinson's disease"
thx
fish
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". . . the fog is rising"~ Emily Dickinson