I'm in the new house! yay! more importantly I finally have internet and a bigger and better place to build bots! I'm ready to get started with this project.
I was quite impressed with norris56 and his beacon based navigation system. I considered abandoning this project and using that method, I thought that beacon based navigation would be good enough for what I have in mind. but ultimately I think I want a mapping system. it has more features that I want to implement. so bottom line. lets get moving on this project!
I think we should take a head count and make sure that everyone is around, ready and wanting to get starting on this project. So PM or post a message if your still on board. I actually need a few days to finish getting things unpacked but for the most part I'm ready to go.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
Thsi is a little over my head, so i don't think that I am going into this, but I think that you might want want some IR beacons to help with navigation· (as a backup or as check points or something).· Just a thought.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
LOOKDOWN ThisThread, [noparse][[/noparse]Your_?, My_?, Cool_Thing], looknum
LOOKUP looknum, [noparse][[/noparse]1, 2, 3], subnum
ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
END
Dgswaner said...
I'm in the new house! yay! more importantly I finally have internet and a bigger and better place to build bots! I'm ready to get started with this project.
I think we should take a head count and make sure that everyone is around, ready and wanting to get starting on this project. So PM or post a message if your still on board.
Dgswaner,
I am in with ideas and whatever help I can give. I am not yet a propellor owner, so I can't help with spin/programming issues.
I really want to follow the thinking though. Picked up a book recently - Robotics Demystified by Edwin Wise. It has some basic mapping theory in Chapter 18 - Advanced Control. I will take another look at that.
Also read somewhere here about someone using a CMU cam, pan-tilt head and some targets on the ceiling to navigate by - pretty interesting idea. If I find it - I'll attach a thread link later.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
Whit, I don't have a prop yet either, but I've been doing some home work on the programing, I should be ordering one Friday.
I saw that Robot magazine had an article on Mapping I've ordered the issue but it hasn't arrived yet. I'd love to hear what that book says about it.
I saw that thread about the CMU cam and I've seen similar posts. I like the idea, but I still think that a self contained unit not requiring bright squares on the wall or even IR beacons would be best. but I think it would make the a more accurate system to have beacons. I was thinking that it might be good to start the mapping process by locating a beacon. setting a position and then start mapping. IDK.
I really want to get something like this to work, it will give me the ability to add purpose to robots and Purpose if what innovation.
thanks for the input.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
I did see that, I was referring to this article. 72 HOW TO TRACK YOUR ROBOT’S POSITION. it looks like they have added schematics and code now also. I'm familiar with the concept. you "listen" to the feedback from your motor and you can tell a lot about whats going on, load rpm etc. so they are using the EMF from the motors rather than encoders. well not having read the article that's what I'm assuming. so I Was hoping to at least look at the math behind the project and adapt it to ours. hoping to get the mag soon and I'll share my findings.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
of course I will join the project. Propeller order is underway.
I received some information from robot builders who are looking into the use of and IMU for position determination.
Expensive but there might be less expensive solution around.
Here some documentation:
a book that deals with the subject: http://www.knovel.com/knovel2/Toc.jsp?BookID=1241
Hey whit! from what I could see you luck on the give away was as good as mine.... nada! oh well there is always next year. I'll let you know how the autographing went!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
Well Skywalker! I got my Propeller starter kit today also. so today is a good day! guaranteed I'll be spending my night playing with it! I have a problem with my Manual tho.... I guess with all of the celebrating going on they forgot to autograph my manual as requested. [noparse]:([/noparse] I'll have to call them to set up an RMA.
as far as the project.. I guess the first step is to get familiar with the propeller and get some code to do some of the tasks we know we'll need.
I was thinking... rather than have my basic stamp2sx try and handle all of the sensor inputs and servos, my thought was to have it be in control of the the "current goal" and motor control (go to kitchen) and have the prop handle all of the sensors and calculations. I'll have to get further into the prop before I know for sure if this is the best way to go. so have fun "SPINNING" tonight!
oh man why didn't I think about that for the prop slogan contest! "sit and spin"! maybe that's just local color! Moderator, Feel free to edit that out.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
I know this probably doesn't help you now, but shouldn't you have got a protoboard rather than the starter kit.· The starter kit only has 8 IOs that could be used for sensors.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
LOOKDOWN ThisThread, [noparse][[/noparse]Your_?, My_?, Cool_Thing], looknum
LOOKUP looknum, [noparse][[/noparse]1, 2, 3], subnum
ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
END
Ya I noticed that! with the 10% off sale I made a quick decision, I also noticed that I don't have the Propstick for programming. But I really wanted a hard copy of the manual oh well it's only hard earned money. I'll have to invest in some additional hardware down the road.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
I would want a hard copy of the manual too.· I think that there should be a BOE for the prop.· The protoboard is nice, but I don't like to dedicate boards and stuff like that.· I like breadbords.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
LOOKDOWN ThisThread, [noparse][[/noparse]Your_?, My_?, Cool_Thing], looknum
LOOKUP looknum, [noparse][[/noparse]1, 2, 3], subnum
ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
END
I didn't look close enough I thought it was basically a proto board with the manual and some accessories for some of the projects. ah well I'm still happy with the purchase. I got my free Prop. tee shirt to so I'm good.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
here my plans.
Although I have a Propeller Proto Board (actually 2 !!) on my desk I must complete a couple of other things before I will power to PPB.
1. Install the Wheel Encoder kit on my Boebot and get it up and running.
I believe that having wheel encoders is very important since my experience with the BoeBot is that making the bot run straight is almost impossible.
Charateristics of two servo's are different and changing over time. (due to .. battery voltage? temperature? I don't know).
I plan to get this working and more important, get the math ready so that it can be used for the Mapping project.
Philip C. Pilgrim (PhiPi) wrote a document regarding the use of encoders. It is on the Parallax website under Wheel Encoder hardware. Very interesting.
2. Install the PING on the BoeBot since that will be the primary source to indentify objects in front of the Robot.
Again, this is important for the Mapping project too.
3. Install the Proto Board onto the Boebot. I want to keep the Bot equiped with the two "engines" e.g. the BOE (BS2) and on top (physically) the Propeller Proto Board.
I have to figure out how I can easily switch from one "engine" to the other.
Maybe a relay with a lot of contacts so that sensors and motors can be swapped easily.
4. Now it is time to power the Propeller board and get familiar with the Prop.
No idea how much it will take me to come to this point but I propose that
I focus on topic No 1 and keep you informed.
Take a look at this: http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=668894
It has my idea for a SSR with PhiPi's modification. I planned on hooking many optoisolators up to the outputs of the posted setup to create the effect "a lot of contacts" And its solid state. Hope this helps.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
LOOKDOWN ThisThread, [noparse][[/noparse]Your_?, My_?, Cool_Thing], looknum
LOOKUP looknum, [noparse][[/noparse]1, 2, 3], subnum
ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
END
I wonder, what about the voltage drop across the transistors while in conduting mode? It is not zero.
How do you deal with that or do I make a mistake?
Your right.· I have not implemented this idea yet it is still a theory to me. I assumed that there wouldn't be much of a drop but that depends on the opto you use, right. It might make a difference because you are using 3.3V signals to communicate to a 5V device (the servo). I didn't think of that. Doesn't a relay have a drop too though?
I don't think you could find a relay with that many contacts. What if you just run all of the wires to both processors and have a switch disconnect power from one or the other.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
LOOKDOWN ThisThread, [noparse][[/noparse]Your_?, My_?, Cool_Thing], looknum
LOOKUP looknum, [noparse][[/noparse]1, 2, 3], subnum
ON subnum GOTO Hope_this_helps, Thanks!, WOW!!
END
The advantage of a relay is that he has NO loss at all. Of course there are also disadvantages .. speed, noise ( :<)) )
So, I'm not sure if the proposed scheme as in http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=209575 can be used to switch servo's·and sensors.
Comments
I saw this thread. http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?p=646050
This could certainly be applied to floodhound's·problem (night watch)·and might add something to our discussion.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
I was quite impressed with norris56 and his beacon based navigation system. I considered abandoning this project and using that method, I thought that beacon based navigation would be good enough for what I have in mind. but ultimately I think I want a mapping system. it has more features that I want to implement. so bottom line. lets get moving on this project!
I think we should take a head count and make sure that everyone is around, ready and wanting to get starting on this project. So PM or post a message if your still on board. I actually need a few days to finish getting things unpacked but for the most part I'm ready to go.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
I am in with ideas and whatever help I can give. I am not yet a propellor owner, so I can't help with spin/programming issues.
I really want to follow the thinking though. Picked up a book recently - Robotics Demystified by Edwin Wise. It has some basic mapping theory in Chapter 18 - Advanced Control. I will take another look at that.
Also read somewhere here about someone using a CMU cam, pan-tilt head and some targets on the ceiling to navigate by - pretty interesting idea. If I find it - I'll attach a thread link later.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
I saw that Robot magazine had an article on Mapping I've ordered the issue but it hasn't arrived yet. I'd love to hear what that book says about it.
I saw that thread about the CMU cam and I've seen similar posts. I like the idea, but I still think that a self contained unit not requiring bright squares on the wall or even IR beacons would be best. but I think it would make the a more accurate system to have beacons. I was thinking that it might be good to start the mapping process by locating a beacon. setting a position and then start mapping. IDK.
I really want to get something like this to work, it will give me the ability to add purpose to robots and Purpose if what innovation.
thanks for the input.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
Don't know if you saw it, but the source code and a schematic from the Robot article are available online here - http://www.botmag.com/issue8/WatchBotSource.zip
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
of course I will join the project. Propeller order is underway.
I received some information from robot builders who are looking into the use of and IMU for position determination.
Expensive but there might be less expensive solution around.
Here some documentation:
a book that deals with the subject: http://www.knovel.com/knovel2/Toc.jsp?BookID=1241
you can read parts of the book: http://books.google.nl/booksid=NN95yh2cVwYC&dq=Strapdown+Inertial+Navigation+Technology+&pg=PP1&ots=igxsJtsCiU&sig=hGuVuMdHl_ki-zJxzxTuFiMbDdY&prev=http://www.google.nl/search%3Fhl%3Dnl%26q%3DStrapdown%2BInertial%2BNavigation%2BTechnology%2B%26btnG%3DGoogle%2Bzoeken%26meta%3D&sa=X&oi=print&ct=title#PPA263,M1
the following belong to Andrew P. Anderson
here the site of an interesting robot builder: http://www.geology.smu.edu/~dpa-www/robo/jbot/
here a paper regarding Odometry and IMU usage: http://geology.heroy.smu.edu/~dpa-www/robo/Encoder/imu_odo/
Ed
we already made it to the Wikipedia :<)))
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simultaneous_localization_and_mapping
Ed
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
I had a quick look and see NO reason (value added) to go any further.
Do you?
thx, Ed
Post Edited (Skywalker49) : 9/3/2007 8:32:10 AM GMT
Do you mean, "see no reason to go any further. I'm not sure what you mean.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
proto board, PING, encoder, compass ordered and it has been confirmed that all the stuff is in stock
and will be delivered in a couple of days :<))
Ed
order is placed and I'm expecting my prop this week. I'm anxious to see if they autographed the manuals like I requested in the special instructions!
.......eagerly awaiting the Hands on part of this project!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
hardware has been delivered. Finally hands on.
Ed
as far as the project.. I guess the first step is to get familiar with the propeller and get some code to do some of the tasks we know we'll need.
I was thinking... rather than have my basic stamp2sx try and handle all of the sensor inputs and servos, my thought was to have it be in control of the the "current goal" and motor control (go to kitchen) and have the prop handle all of the sensors and calculations. I'll have to get further into the prop before I know for sure if this is the best way to go. so have fun "SPINNING" tonight!
oh man why didn't I think about that for the prop slogan contest! "sit and spin"! maybe that's just local color! Moderator, Feel free to edit that out.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
A complex design is the sign of an inferior designer. - Jamie Hyneman, Myth Buster
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Glad you guys got your stuff - sounds great. I guess you might check out the object library for useful bits! Have fun!
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Whit+
"We keep moving forward, opening new doors, and doing new things, because we're curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths." - Walt Disney
here my plans.
Although I have a Propeller Proto Board (actually 2 !!) on my desk I must complete a couple of other things before I will power to PPB.
1. Install the Wheel Encoder kit on my Boebot and get it up and running.
I believe that having wheel encoders is very important since my experience with the BoeBot is that making the bot run straight is almost impossible.
Charateristics of two servo's are different and changing over time. (due to .. battery voltage? temperature? I don't know).
I plan to get this working and more important, get the math ready so that it can be used for the Mapping project.
Philip C. Pilgrim (PhiPi) wrote a document regarding the use of encoders. It is on the Parallax website under Wheel Encoder hardware. Very interesting.
2. Install the PING on the BoeBot since that will be the primary source to indentify objects in front of the Robot.
Again, this is important for the Mapping project too.
3. Install the Proto Board onto the Boebot. I want to keep the Bot equiped with the two "engines" e.g. the BOE (BS2) and on top (physically) the Propeller Proto Board.
I have to figure out how I can easily switch from one "engine" to the other.
Maybe a relay with a lot of contacts so that sensors and motors can be swapped easily.
4. Now it is time to power the Propeller board and get familiar with the Prop.
No idea how much it will take me to come to this point but I propose that
I focus on topic No 1 and keep you informed.
Ed
It has my idea for a SSR with PhiPi's modification. I planned on hooking many optoisolators up to the outputs of the posted setup to create the effect "a lot of contacts" And its solid state. Hope this helps.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
I wonder, what about the voltage drop across the transistors while in conduting mode? It is not zero.
How do you deal with that or do I make a mistake?
Ed
I don't think you could find a relay with that many contacts.
▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
Post Edited (D Faust) : 9/8/2007 11:02:45 PM GMT
So, I'm not sure if the proposed scheme as in http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=15&m=209575 can be used to switch servo's·and sensors.
Ed