HYDRA Game Console Kit, Game Programming for the Propeller Powered HYDRA on Sal
AndreL
Posts: 1,004
A little over a year and everything is done and available for sale!!! Start here:
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=32360
and the book...
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=70360
Also, maybe next week I will put up a post about a contest of sorts with the HYDRA, but for now·enjoy. I am going to get some sleep finally....
Andre'
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=32360
and the book...
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=70360
Also, maybe next week I will put up a post about a contest of sorts with the HYDRA, but for now·enjoy. I am going to get some sleep finally....
Andre'
Comments
Graham
p.s. I asked for USPS airmail as I did with my demo board, I'm hoping that's OK Parallax [noparse]:)[/noparse]
You may want to update the list of computer games, though...
While NUSSE didn't have a big, shiny screen, it did play NIM back in 1954.
http://www.abo.fi/~atorn/History/Page14.html
Here's a picture:
http://www.norwayonline.no/images/div/nit_red/nit2-s13.jpg
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Don't visit my new website...
I can't wait to get it, but I don't know when I'll get to play with it.
It looks like alot of people are just getting the book, Parallax should make the kit available without the book too.
Bean.
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Cheap used 4-digit LED display with driver IC·www.hc4led.com
Low power SD Data Logger www.sddatalogger.com
SX-Video Display Modules www.sxvm.com
"People who are willing to trade their freedom for·security deserve neither and will lose both." Benjamin Franklin
Post Edited (Bean (Hitt Consulting)) : 11/18/2006 12:42:50 AM GMT
invested in prop stuff . Maybe after saving my pennies for a bit.
I'm curious how much of the Hydra software will run on a plain old demo board.
Clearly you lose the expansion slot, the game slots, and the networking. But
are the other slots wired the same way as on the demo board? Maybe I can
hack up a connector for a joystick and run the Hydra games on my demo board?
The expansion connector looks pretty cool. If I do get a Hydra I'm sure the
first thing I'll solder to it will be an SD card connector so I can put all 32,000
games available on the same memory card!
As far as an SD card reader, yup that's a must. If anyone does create any expansion cards, don't hesitate to contact me or parallax we might want to sell them on our sites as well.
Also, one thing to mention, anyone that does get the kit or the book, make sure to look on the CD, there are lots of things there like a complete copy of the "Black Art of 3D Game Programming", DOS based book which matches nicely to the propeller programming since obviously the prop has no windows, directx or gigs of memory like a DirectX/Windows game uses now. And of course math is math and 3D algorithms are still all the same and applicable from the book.
Andre'
Post Edited (AndreL) : 11/18/2006 2:26:05 AM GMT
Andre'
I can't speak for anyone else, but my reason for not ordering the Hydra itself is the accessories.
The wall-wart is useless here in Norway, and keyboard and mice I can get cheaply anywhere(or nick from the 'returned and too dirty to give to users' bin at the office).
All in all, they're just dead weight that I don't want to pay shipping for.
(Or even the cost of the items themselves)
As for the controller...
I have the NES, SNES, Sega Master(I & II), MegaDrive(I & II + 32x + MegaCD) and a whole lot of other consoles. (I think I should have a few controllers that works with the Hydra)
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Don't visit my new website...
Graham
Andre'
When I bought the Propstick I had to add additional circuitry for video / VGA, etc but the solderless breadboard looks a bit ugly as there is not much room on a single breadboard for everything. I should have spent the extra and gotten the "complete" solution by buying the Propellor standard board. It is the same when I started with a BOE-BOT for the BOE for BS2 projects. I rarely ever use it since I moved up to the "complete" solution of when I later bought a Professional Development Board. There is less headache and more capability.
I will most likely buy a HYDRA kit but haven't gotten past learning SPIN and certainly not assembly language. I read about a Tiny BASIC that comes with the Hydra too. This may make it a little more bearable to use for a newbie with only BASIC programing skills.
(BTW: When I hear the word Hydra "kit" it makes me think I need to solder it like I did on my Propstick. Perhaps a solderable Kit version would reduce the cost a little and draw more people in.)
Thanks...just my 2 cents worth.
Post Edited (T&E Engineer) : 11/18/2006 11:56:08 AM GMT
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Paul Baker
Propeller Applications Engineer
Parallax, Inc.
My wife ordered me the hydra for x-mas , so needless to say I have a month to wait . I have the heathkit/pittman tiny basic on a trainer ,is this going to be the same as the tiny basic on hydra ?
Thanks Brian
Additionally, the game cards is very slick in its design in as much as from the prop's point of view when you drop it in, the prop thinks its just talking to the same eeprom; one is enabled the other disabled, so there is no special programming to use the gamecard, thus games don't need to know about.
Last, but not least, we made sure that ALL demos work in the 32K which is the typical propeller setup. We have 128K to support multiple images, etc. So all and all, I did all I could to kill two birds with one stone and not only make the HYDRA book the definitive resource for the HYDRA, but to make it the definitive resource for general propeller graphics programming and media. HOWEVER, the HYDRA book is NOT a teach you programming book, it doens't not teach programming from the ground up, that would add another 500-1000 pages and I would get complaints up the ying yang about how people don't want to pay more to learn how to program, when they just want to know how to do graphics. Then people would ask "can you make another version of the book without the tutorial programming, since I am already a C programmer" etc. Point is, you can never make everyone happy [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Nonetheless, I still even tried to start off slow with the HYDRA book for those that want to learn programmnig for the first time with the book, it will be a cold shower and harsh, but I suppose someone really smart could pick up general programming as well. However, I doubt anyone on this board falls into the category of NOT knowing how to program, so its a moot point.
Finally, on the subject of just selling the HYDRA alone. Who knows, maybe in the future for the customer that wants the ultimate in spartan design and wants to do it all himself we will sell JUST the HYDRA PCB and customers can but the parts and make one themselves, then they can use old keyboards, mice, etc. with it and shipping cost would be nothing, since its like mailing a letter [noparse]:)[/noparse] But, of course the hydra has surface mount parts and many would end up destroying them during the soldering process, thus this option would be advanced hobbyists and for people to try at their own risk.
So give us some time on that and we might be able to make it happen in the near future. Also, it might be cool for customers tha buy a hydra, but want two for networking, they can build one themselves potentially. We will see.
For now, "kit" means you get everything you need to have fun. Just like my other products, the "game programming starter kit" series, kit means you just get all the things you need to make games on a PC, what you "assemble" are games. Same thing here, "kit" means tools to make games and media applications for the hydra.
But, you can still switch out the prop chip and xtal, and it uses a big fat 40-pin dip which has a lot of heatsinking so you can over clock it really well and cool it really well, plus the eeprom is socketed as well, so you can upgrade, switch that as well.
Andre'
We are working on a new basic, more commercial right now, no real time on it, but it will have built in graphics, sound, and gaming support, so you can get real work done with it to make games etc. but, that's not going to be out for a while. Thus, primarily for real coding you will use spin and asm as usual.
Andre'
Lord knows I've spent enough already on various Parallax products. But If I'm going to lay out $70 for a book, there's no way in the world I would turn around later and buy the "complete" system - I already have the keyboard, mouse, display, etc. from the Propeller accessories kit, I have game controllers, power supples, cabling, and so on. $250 would be a ridiculous price to pay when, in essence, all I need is the Hydra board itself.
If the board itself ( assembled or unassembled ) was made available as a separate SKU, I'd snap it up. Otherwise, well, it makes no economic sense whatsoever to duplicate all of the accessories I already have.
- Rich
For example, if we just sold the hydra board by itself pre-assembled, it would probably be $199, thus they hydra and the book would be $269 bought seperately! So you get the hydra, the 128K, the blank card, the book, and ALL the accesorries for $250, less than the cost we would sell JUST the hydra and just the book, so its a good deal no matter what.
Andre'
As far as the other elements go, the machine is plenty open. Gives people plenty of options. Personally, I'm into the prop for both software and hardware type stuff. Been a while since I tinkered with electronics. This is a good fit overall.
Those programs that do not depend on the larger eeprom memory, should run just fine on the demo board, sans the game controllers. No biggie. Can always add that circut, or just edit the code to take other input. Gonna have to tweak to change pin assignments anyway.
I'm assuming the CD is the same for both the book purchase and the complete system purchase.
BTW: Thanks Andre for releasing the sample chapter covering the Parallax reference drivers. I had gotten about half way through that process. That chapter ties things together nicely. Appreciated!
Just an FYI.
Andre'
Re 3D Racer: Yes, but the code is there correct? If so, no biggie. Either keyboard will fit or it won't.
Personally, I prefer the old Atari style controllers. Kind of pin hungry, but more enjoyable. Maybe modify the game for use with those.
Also, in a week or two, we will release the "HYDRA Asset Mananger" 0.1 version for free, its not part of the copyrighted book/CD materials. The HYDRA Asset manager is a tool used to create "images" on the eeprom, but using a graphical interface on the PC written in C# .net. Pretty sweet little toy, will work on any propeller chip connected to the eeprom in the standard way. When its done, we will put it up for free download on the HYDRA page. This way if you have a game or app that you write and you want to drag some .BMP or .TXT or whatever for storage on the eeprom, but with your app on the lower 32K, and then read the assets during run-time, you can use this little tool. First you have to flash the hydra/prop with the host comm program, then run our PC tool then do what you want. More or less, its just an eeprom programmer with a graphical interface, but uses the prop as the host to do the programming [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Ref Atari controllers; as you know I used atari controllers on the XGS system, but they are hard to find and need pins. But, at first the HYDRA was going to use them, did a round about deal with atari to get them, then you know atari, no JOYSTICKS!!! So, I decided to use NES controllers, found a SWEET source of SEXY black controllers which I will go to my grave before I give up [noparse]:)[/noparse], and decided to use them. They are so much better since they have the dpad, more buttons and of course a blinking GREEN LED, that was the clincher, so the HYDRA is better for using the NES controllers, PLUS its compatible with any NES controller or pad, so I would love to see someone make a DANCE DANCE FEVER game on the HYDRA [noparse]:)[/noparse]
Andre'
(That is, NES-compatible consoles, usually without Nintendo's blessings. for some strange reason, many of them looks like the PS or PSOne... Though some, like the GameAxe, takes it out of the ballpark entirely.)
Not that any of the Famicoms I own has so nice controllers...
Anyway, with the Nintendo Revolution(I refuse to use that... joke of a new name) starting to sell on Dec. 8 here in Norway, and expected to sell out fast, I was worried that I wouldn't have anything fun to do while being offline at my parents during xmas...
(I preordered the Revolution two months ago, but the company I ordered with now tells me that no one who ordered after 07.07.2006 will get one from the first shipment, and they haven't gotten any dates for the second or third shipment, yet)
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Don't visit my new website...
Andre'
Thanks.
-Dave
Should be plenty to run, after a tweak or two, on the demo board.
Andre'
Robin