The new controller mentioned in Nuts & Volts

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Comments

  • Jeff MartinJeff Martin Posts: 602
    edited 2006-02-20 - 21:45:24
    Electronegativity said...
    Also, are we going to keep this forum as one long thread?
    Please don't.· [noparse]:)[/noparse]· Now is the time to split further conversations into additional topics within the Propeller forum.

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    --Jeff Martin

    · Sr. Software Engineer
    · Parallax, Inc.
    Jeff Martin
    Parallax Inc.
    (916) 624-8333 x3002
    jmartin@parallax.com
    http://www.parallax.com
  • Jeff MartinJeff Martin Posts: 602
    edited 2006-02-20 - 21:46:41
    Electronegativity said...
    Is there an implementation in SPIN for one Propeller to talk to another?
    Nothing built-in for that purpose specifically, but of course, we expect that people will create objects for such things.

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    --Jeff Martin

    · Sr. Software Engineer
    · Parallax, Inc.
    Jeff Martin
    Parallax Inc.
    (916) 624-8333 x3002
    jmartin@parallax.com
    http://www.parallax.com
  • Kaos KiddKaos Kidd Posts: 614
    edited 2006-02-21 - 18:18:37
    WOW...
    Ok, one thing unstated...
    Have there been any provisions for MASS STORAGE / RAM been included?
    Maybe not a complete system, but maybe a way of using a cog fo "pump" data into the hub for other cogs?

    just... wow... I cant express it any other way... wow...
    Ok, I need a fix...
    3 Milkybars will hold me for a few days...
    [noparse]:)[/noparse]

    ADDED:...

    I do Hope and pray you make enough chips and dev boards so everyone can have one when the come out...



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    Just tossing my two bits worth into the bit bucket
    KK


    Post Edited (Kaos Kidd) : 2/21/2006 6:21:31 PM GMT
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2006-02-21 - 18:46:56
    Think about it... the Propeller is a 3.3v device, SD cards are 3.3v devices that communicate via SPI... hmmm.· I'm learning what I need to know to incorporate SD cards into a couple project ideas.


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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax

    Post Edited (Jon Williams (Parallax)) : 2/21/2006 7:11:51 PM GMT
  • ElectronegativityElectronegativity Posts: 311
    edited 2006-02-21 - 19:03:39
    I was about to ask the exact same question about extra memory.

    A gigabyte of digital camera memory is pretty cheap these days, and 32 bits are sufficient to address a little over 4 gig of ram.

    There has been a lot of talk on these boards about te I2C protocol.
    Seems like it's something I should learn.

    Any advice for how to get started with I2C?
    I was lucky enough to get one of the free SX UART kits, but I know absolutely nothing about I2C.

    Thanks,
    -Alexander

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    I wonder if this wire is hot...
  • Jon WilliamsJon Williams Posts: 6,491
    edited 2006-02-21 - 19:14:06
    I was wrong about the SD/MMC card interface -- it's SPI.· Still that's easy to implement as is I2C.· I've written a couple articles for Nuts & Volts on I2C, it's an easy place to start.· For details, though, you'll want to consult the Philips spec.

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    Jon Williams
    Applications Engineer, Parallax
  • ElectronegativityElectronegativity Posts: 311
    edited 2006-02-21 - 19:33:33
    Thanks, I think I can deal with SPI.

    The only major impediment I see to using large SDRAMs with the propeller is the time to transfer data.

    at 80 MHz it would take about 100 seconds to transfer a gigabyte over one line. (8 billion bits / 80 million bits per second)

    The old 30 pin SIMM card from back in the 66MHz Pentium days would provide a faster transfer rate, but only leave you with 2 configurable I/O pins...

    Something in a 20 or 24 pin package would probably be ideal.

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    I wonder if this wire is hot...
  • SteveWSteveW Posts: 246
    edited 2006-02-21 - 19:46:03
    Depends what you want to do with all this data, surely...
    If you want to log stuff, then serial is likely to be fine. The care and feeding of SDRAM is hard - unless you really want to do it, static RAMs are much easier. (SDRAM generally needs a continuous clock, unless you're going to expend effort dropping it into and out of power saving modes)
    SPI is really easy to write code for, certainly to be a master. Orders of magnitude easier than bit-banging SDRAM. PCB layout will be easier, too.

    Steve
  • ElectronegativityElectronegativity Posts: 311
    edited 2006-02-21 - 20:04:36
    I'm thinking of building a massively parallel vector processor out of an array of propellers.

    Moving things in and out of memory is likely to be the rate limiting step.

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    I wonder if this wire is hot...
  • GadgetmanGadgetman Posts: 2,436
    edited 2006-02-21 - 20:16:11
    The only problem with accessing SD-RAM, or any other FLASH-card for that, is the file-system driver.

    you can bypass it and just dump data sequentially through it, but then you won't be able to read it out on a PC, at least not without writing a driver that overrules the default 'removeable disk' driver in Windows(or any other OS you prefer to run)

    Browsing a directory-tree to find a file, or even reading through the FAT table to find empty sectors to allocate to a file is a 'non-trivial' task.
    I hope that whoever first manages to write a program to do this is kind enough to upload it for everyone to use...

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    Don't visit my new website...
  • SteveWSteveW Posts: 246
    edited 2006-02-21 - 20:22:16
    >I'm thinking of building a massively parallel vector processor out of an array of propellers.

    I see much pain and woe in your imminent future.
    Propeller's looking very nice, but it wouldn't be my first choice for such a project. I'd have to recommend wringing all the available performance out of just the one, before complicating things like this. Trust me, there's plenty of fun to be had with a mere 8 32-bit cores...
    (and if you really _must_ build a massively parallel system, sitting a bunch of propellers round a common SDRAM strikes me as hard, hard work. SDRAM is stateful, its bus is fussy, it's bursty. Aargh, so wrong...)
    How about sitting your propellers round a switching fabric built from FPGAs, if you must? (Or, of course, message passing, occam-style through SPI links)

    Steve

    Steve
  • ElectronegativityElectronegativity Posts: 311
    edited 2006-02-21 - 20:34:18
    Hi Steve, you are right on all accounts.

    I will certainly start with one chip, but what intrigues me is that every 16 of these could provide up to 10Ghz of processing power as long as the problem lends itself to parallelization, which many interesting physics problems do.

    I have only begun to think about this, and I'm sure your knowlege is greater than mine.
    What's an FPGA?

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    I wonder if this wire is hot...
  • Kaos KiddKaos Kidd Posts: 614
    edited 2006-02-21 - 20:37:52
    ·
    · Lots of·things could happen, depend on what was needed for a give project.· With things working together, as in true multiprocessors, this could work very rapidly.· 2K of private code, 512 long ints is a lot of space for some things.· Add the ability to modify code on the fly, load or 'map' in other code, and you can see where this can go.· With 32 pins for IO (ok, less the 2 + 2 = 28 pins)· This by it's self is a true mini computer.· With more "bandwidth" and power then the first generation AT's.··Even at a mear 10 MIPS level, it out preformes, as a whole, the Pentium 66.· Just for "**its and giggles", this device could more then likely handle that new super 6 million LED display being build.


    attachment.php?attachmentid=73663

    The above is just an IDEA on how one might "arrange" the code and tasks.

    I'm just conserned with PRECIOUS RAM... data storage and retrival...
    DOn't misunderstand me, I'm already sold and ready to order...
    Almost not worried about the pricing for this, the dev board and some of the "goodies" that they may provide for / with..


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    Just tossing my two bits worth into the bit bucket
    KK
    ·
    609 x 264 - 4K
  • DimyDimy Posts: 1
    edited 2006-02-27 - 10:24:37
    Hi I have used the SX52 extensively since its apparition into the market. I prefer it for the extra pins it provides but now that it has been removed from the market I am interested to try the new propeller. My only which, is that it will be comparable in price. So here is my guess $9.45
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