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Bad Basic Stamp 2 oem chip

2

Comments

  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-12 12:02
    Bruce Bates said...
    Matt -

    The overheated regulator and low voltage say to me that there is either a short on the output side (the +5 VDC regulated DC line), or there is an overload on it, or the regulator is wired incorrectly. First re-check the wiring of the regulator, and the part number to make sure it's what you expect it to be.

    If that is all okay, next set your voltmeter to semi-permanently connect to any one of the presently too low test points. Then, connection by connection, follow the regulated DC line from the regulator outbound, removing each of the connections to that line individually. At one point the voltage will JUMP back to +5 VDC and that's when you've identified ONE short or overload. Fix that, and if any of the test points STILL reads low, continue on until you've located ALL of the improper connections.

    Regards,

    Bruce Bates

    Bruce-

    I just realize that I was using the L78505CV instead of the LM2940-5. I just realize that the L78505CV was outputting 2a instead of 1a like the LM2940-5 and that could of been my problem from the beginning. Could I use the 78L05 with an output of 100ma or do I need to use the LM2940-5? If so then this project is on hold until I order some. Lets just hope I didn't do any real damage, but I most likely did.

    -Matt
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-01-12 13:12
    Well, you've answered all of my questions.

    The 78L05 should work just fine.· I would suggest that you wire it up and test it out all by itself before connecting anything (anything else) to it.

    I guess you're learning something, but probably·not what you'd expected.· I reckon you should take a few steps back, or start over, and go step-by-step.
  • Bruce BatesBruce Bates Posts: 3,045
    edited 2006-01-12 13:14
    Matt -

    You may have found your problem, but the ampacity (output amperage) is not the specific problem. The VOLTAGE is what you want to be reviewing. Since you probably have both data sheets handy, and I have neither, please do the following.

    Check the general wiring of each, and see if they're basically the same. I suspect they may be, but checking the data sheet is the only way to be sure. Now look in greater details for any REQUIRED capacitors or resistors that the user must supply. Some regulators require them, and others do not. Make sure that the capacitors or resistors which are supposed to be there (if required) are indeed the correct values for the specific regulator you're using.

    Once you're sure the wiring is as it should be, disconnect everything from the regulator, and check the regulated output voltage. It should be right on the money. If not, you MUST solve that problem first, before you go any further. Once that looks okay, go back to the steps in my prior message, and remove each load, individually, which is connected to that +5 VDC output line, until you find the culprit.

    As far as which regulator to use, you need to take an inventory of the various loads which will be placed on the regulator. Add them all up, and I usually double that amount, just to give myself plenty of "headroom" for possible expansion. Use that total connected load (plus the headroom) to determine which regulator to use, keeping in mind the appropriate voltage as well.

    Regards,

    Bruce Bates
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-12 15:55
    PJ Allen said...

    Well, you've answered all of my questions.

    The 78L05 should work just fine.· I would suggest that you wire it up and test it out all by itself before connecting anything (anything else) to it.

    I guess you're learning something, but probably·not what you'd expected.· I reckon you should take a few steps back, or start over, and go step-by-step.


    PJ Allen-
    What I am going to do is start from the beginning and use the 78L05 and each new connection I make I am going to test it with a meter and make sure it stays at +5V and if it drops to low, then I will redo the connection or switch out that componet with a different one.
    -Matt
    Bruce Bates said...
    Matt -

    You may have found your problem, but the ampacity (output amperage) is not the specific problem. The VOLTAGE is what you want to be reviewing. Since you probably have both data sheets handy, and I have neither, please do the following.

    Check the general wiring of each, and see if they're basically the same. I suspect they may be, but checking the data sheet is the only way to be sure. Now look in greater details for any REQUIRED capacitors or resistors that the user must supply. Some regulators require them, and others do not. Make sure that the capacitors or resistors which are supposed to be there (if required) are indeed the correct values for the specific regulator you're using.

    Once you're sure the wiring is as it should be, disconnect everything from the regulator, and check the regulated output voltage. It should be right on the money. If not, you MUST solve that problem first, before you go any further. Once that looks okay, go back to the steps in my prior message, and remove each load, individually, which is connected to that +5 VDC output line, until you find the culprit.

    As far as which regulator to use, you need to take an inventory of the various loads which will be placed on the regulator. Add them all up, and I usually double that amount, just to give myself plenty of "headroom" for possible expansion. Use that total connected load (plus the headroom) to determine which regulator to use, keeping in mind the appropriate voltage as well.

    Regards,

    Bruce Bates
    Bruce-

    I didn't know it was hot until I was messing around with·a ground wire next to it and I barely touched it and it felt like i got zapped and then when I search around for what caused it I touched the heatsink on the L78505CV and·I was like ouch.· So it might be bad or sorting out.· I am going to look over the datasheets and see if i missed any caps which I think I did.· I will post my findings once I get home, thanks again guys.· Do you think the caps would keep it from getting hot or do you think thats an internal problem of the regulator?
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-01-12 19:23
    The capacitors would make it run hot if they were placed in circuit backward (i.e. their polarity was not observed) and given enough reverse voltage they might even go bang!
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-12 20:39
    PJ Allen-

    Well, I used a couple of different caps on this schematic which are all NP. I don't know if that also can be part of the problem. So what I am going to do is make sure I have all the right components needed down to the polarization and test to make sure that they all are working the way they should before I put this circuit together and that might help with the problem.

    -Matt
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-15 02:36
    Here is what I found on the 78L05:

    LM78L05_app.jpg

    Unfortunately, I do not have the .33 uf or the 0.01 uf on hand. What do you guys recommend as the best substitute for them for this circuit? Also who recommends using the MAX232 over the resistor - transistor setup they have between the DB9 and the BASIC 2 Stamp?

    Thanks guys and have a good day.
    -Matt
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-01-15 02:56
    M.B.,

    · What do you have on hand?· I figure anything up to 4.7uF would be OK.· Put the parts in, turn it on, measure your input and your output.· Turn it off.· Place a 1K resistor across the output (output to ground), turn it back on and measure it again.

    · When you·place your PIC, connect all the GNDs first.· Step by step by step.
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-15 03:02
    P.J-

    The smallest I have are some 1uf NP and some 10uf NP.

    When you said "When you place your PIC, connect all the GNDs first. Step by step by step." Do you mean test the volt output on each ground terminal?

    -Matt
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-01-15 03:27
    The 1uF should be OK.· Place them, check it; then place the load resistor on the output and check it again.· Give it a whirl.

    I was think the PIC had more than one Ground/Vss PIN, but it doesn't, from looking at that schematic on Page 1·(when components/ICs have more than one Ground pin, and it's not unusual, it's important that they all get there.)
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-15 03:36
    Okay, here are the steps I am going to take:
    a) Connect the 78L05 to a wall adapter and test its output.
    b) Connect (i guess 2) 1uf CAPS and test the output.
    c) Connect a load resistor from the output to the ground and test the output (I don't know what this does).
    d) Connect the 78L05 to the PIC and connect the gnd terminal and test the output.

    Then I will post the results here in 10 mins or so.
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-01-15 03:38
    No, man -- it has to have the CAPs to work, so place them first/beforehand., combine your "a" & "b" steps.· Placing the load resistor proves that you can pull some current (with 1K, it's 5mA.)· This is more fun than a barrel full of people.

    Post Edited (PJ Allen) : 1/15/2006 3:47:08 AM GMT
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-15 03:56
    One thing about the load resistor, does it go before the CAPs or after the CAPS?
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-01-15 04:01
    Oh, Mike... see attached.
    593 x 269 - 29K
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-15 04:05
    LOL thanks PJ for the schematic but I figure out where the 1k should go using common sense(Need to use more of that haha).

    Here are the results:

    The LM78L05 with the 2 1uf Caps show an output between 5.06 and 5.07.
    The LM78L05 with the 2 1uf Caps +1k load resistor shows an output of the same thing
    Connecting the LM78L05 with 2 1uf Caps +1k load resistor to the PIC, the PIC is showing an output of the same thing. I don't know if this is correct or if I am testing it correctly.

    -Matt
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-01-15 04:10
    It's Matt, not Mike -- sorry.

    It sounds to me that you have a good start, now, Matt.· Just keep going, you have abaseline to procede from.· Turn it off, place a component, and see if it goes bad.· If you have an LED, place it in series with that resistor, and if you do something that's not right, you'll know because the little red light won't be on.
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-15 04:22
    PJ

    Thanks for your help so far. One more thing and that is the MAX232. I think that would be easier to setup, its just needs the right CAPS right? I am going to have to take a look at its data sheet and see which ones it needs. I will post an update in a hour or so.

    -Matt
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-01-15 04:25
    Most MAX232s use 1uF Caps, too.· The ST232 uses 0.1uF (kinda cool, it.)· Just play it step by step, build up your confidence.· I'm going to be snoozing here shortly, so I'll get back to you tomorrow.· The MAX232 will result, if successful, in having two more voltages to measure -- +10V (Pin 2) and -10V (Pin 6).
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-15 04:29
    PJ Allen said...
    Most MAX232s use 1uF Caps, too. The ST232 uses 0.1uF (kinda cool, it.) Just play it step by step, build up your confidence. I'm going to be snoozing here shortly, so I'll get back to you tomorrow. The MAX232 will result, if successful, in having two more voltages to measure -- +10V (Pin 2) and -10V (Pin 6).

    Nevermind using the MAX232 becuase I can't get a clean 10v source, I am working with a 9v adapter. I guess I will be using resistors and transistors for this.

    -Matt
  • ForrestForrest Posts: 1,341
    edited 2006-01-15 06:23
    I think you misunderstood the last comment. The MAX232 chip takes the +5V supply voltage and generates +10V and -10V
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-15 13:11
    I don't think I can use the MAX232 anyways becuase the datasheet is showing polar 1uf Caps and all have is NP 1uf Caps.

    -Matt
  • Steve JoblinSteve Joblin Posts: 784
    edited 2006-01-15 14:04
    I'm working with the MAX232 as well... I have the same poblem (no 1 uF polarized electrolytics on hand). In my post, I got back a response from PJ ALLEN saying that you can substitute 1uF non-polarized Tantalum capacitors... do you have any of those? FYI... here is the thread.... http://forums.parallax.com/forums/default.aspx?f=5&m=104911
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-01-15 14:54
    WOW, Page 3.

    Matt -- Go ahead, use the 1uF caps, they're fine.· It just needs the capacitance, the type isn't such a big deal here.
    Only thing is, don't connect it to the PIC till it's fully ready, connecting it to the PIC should be the last thing to do in this project.· Like Forrest wrote, it generates, if you will, the +10V and -10V that I mentioned.

    Steve Joblin -- Did you make that circuit up yet or what?· It just needs the capacitance, the type isn't such a big deal here.

    Two guys, Matt and Steve,·with nothing but 1uF Caps, and non-polarized.· They must be big.· Are they on sale some place?
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-15 15:26
    PJ Allen said...
    WOW, Page 3.


    Matt -- Go ahead, use the 1uF caps, they're fine. It just needs the capacitance, the type isn't such a big deal here.

    Only thing is, don't connect it to the PIC till it's fully ready, connecting it to the PIC should be the last thing to do in this project. Like Forrest wrote, it generates, if you will, the +10V and -10V that I mentioned.



    Steve Joblin -- Did you make that circuit up yet or what? It just needs the capacitance, the type isn't such a big deal here.



    Two guys, Matt and Steve, with nothing but 1uF Caps, and non-polarized. They must be big. Are they on sale some place?

    PJ Allen-

    Okay, thanks for the warning. In about 10 mins I am going to work on this circuit for a bit. I wanted it to be done last night but I had the question about the NP and Polar Caps. Hopefully I can see where I went wrong and get this thing working today.

    -Matt
  • PJAllenPJAllen Banned Posts: 5,065
    edited 2006-01-15 15:57
    What's the rush?· Hurrying gets you no-where fast.· Slow, steady progress.· Step by step by step, ever forward.· smile.gif
  • Steve JoblinSteve Joblin Posts: 784
    edited 2006-01-15 16:08
    PJ... thanks again for your help!· Looking to get some "me time" today to work on my project...

    Post Edited (Steve Joblin) : 1/15/2006 4:11:14 PM GMT
    960 x 720 - 33K
    960 x 720 - 14K
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-15 16:39
    Quick update:

    11:35am
    I connect the MAX232 to the LM78L05 and pin 6 is showing an output of -8.81V and pin 2 is showing an output of 9.25V.

    Steve- Your 1st image is a great help but your second image is a little confusing. Thanks though.

    12:41pm
    I have everything connect and doubled check to make sure every connection is correct and I plug it in and ran the basic stamp editor and its still a no go. I am going to change how I have pin 28 on the BS2 connected and try it again later.

    Post Edited (Matt Battle) : 1/15/2006 5:44:13 PM GMT
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-17 23:58
    I bought the BOE "Full kit" from Parallax. I gave up on trying to get it to work but I hope all this info in this thread helps somebody down the road.
  • Chris SavageChris Savage Parallax Engineering Posts: 14,406
    edited 2006-01-18 02:01
    Matt,

    ·· What was the problem with your BOE Full Kit?· I looked back through the thread and you never mentioned anything about it that I can find.

    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    Chris Savage
    Parallax Tech Support
    csavage@parallax.com
  • Matt BattleMatt Battle Posts: 172
    edited 2006-01-18 02:06
    Missed some info in my last post haha. I decided to buy the BOE "full kit" becuase I could never get my basic stamp OEM to work.
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