C Compiler for the SX: Parallax has a solution!
Ken Gracey
Posts: 7,401
Dear SXers:
After considering several options available, we are pleased to announce that we are forming a partnership with CCS to provide a $99 C compiler exclusively for the SX. We have assembled a team for making the integration with the SX-Key IDE for debugging, reviewing and improving the documentation, and porting code examples from several popular Parallax accessories to C.
We're·not ready to discuss features yet, but will post early documentation on these forums as it becomes available in the next two weeks. Once we post some information we'll be looking to our forum users for guidance on compiler and documentation improvements.
We expect that the compiler will be ready to ship by the end of December.
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
After considering several options available, we are pleased to announce that we are forming a partnership with CCS to provide a $99 C compiler exclusively for the SX. We have assembled a team for making the integration with the SX-Key IDE for debugging, reviewing and improving the documentation, and porting code examples from several popular Parallax accessories to C.
We're·not ready to discuss features yet, but will post early documentation on these forums as it becomes available in the next two weeks. Once we post some information we'll be looking to our forum users for guidance on compiler and documentation improvements.
We expect that the compiler will be ready to ship by the end of December.
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Comments
Having been severely disappointed with previous CCS efforts, I'm looking forward to a new and plausible offering. The previous stuff was utterly useless, although admittedly they were selling it as a "Beta" poduct including a one year support. Warranty/support calls were largely ineffective. Hopefully with the Parallax push, they will pull up their socks.
Eventhough my support (and desire to use it) have expired, I would appreciate another go at it if Parallax could convince CCS to offer a no-charge upgrade to this new, presumably working product to previous purchasers for their troubles. Seems to me we paid about $250 for garbage.
Good luck on this.
Cheers,
Peter
Through our research and evaluation we've experienced similar concerns. We have a reasonably strong internal connection with CCS for making improvements to the compiler and documentation. This isn't something we're tacking on to our IDE - source level debug is part of the plan, along with support from Parallax and complete money-back guarantee.
If your purchase was for a prior version of an SX compiler from CCS, I will obtain a refund for you. Please verify with me and I'll follow through. Please verify - you needn't be in that position. I won't be tolerant of any of our suppliers putting our customers in that situation.
Thanks,
Ken Gracey
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
Again I'm impressed with your sensitivity to customer needs.....one couldn't ask for more!
I'll dig out the version details of my previous purchase, and I thank you very kindly for your offer and assistance.
Perhaps now I'll have cause to learn to be a C programmer, though I hope not to lose my assembler skills.
Cheers,
Peter (pjv)
If you want to keep your ASM skills up, SX/B is going strong [noparse];)[/noparse]
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
Anyone who wants more history than you can read on the CCS compilers (for PICs) can check the piclist archive at
http://www.piclist.com/techref/postbot.asp?by=thread&id=%+ccs%
There have been complaints, but there have also been a lot of kudos.
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James Newton, Host of SXList.com
james at sxlist,com 1-619-652-0593 fax:1-208-279-8767
SX FAQ / Code / Tutorials / Documentation:
http://www.sxlist.com Pick faster!
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Jon Williams
Applications Engineer, Parallax
Much of the information you provided is about the CCS compiler for the PIC, whereas we're interested in the SX. Our primary interest is not seeing a ported PIC compiler being used for the SX, but one which targeted to the SX architecture. We will not have any PIC-specific leftovers in the SX version such as examples or debuggers in the CCS SX compiler. While I realize the extent of '5X compatibility necessitates much overlap, the CCS SX version will have specific features for the SX.
If you have some information on their SX compiler I'd be interested in seeing that since this product has been on the market in the past.
Thanks,
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
P.S. to PJV: Your refund from CCS is forthcoming. They will be in contact with you shortly.
WOW, you guys REALLY perform.
I'm exited about your new SX specific product; please put me down for your first copy.
Will it deal with both the 28 and 48 series ?
Thanks ever so much Ken, I'm really impressed,
Cheers,
Peter (pjv)
We're not worthy! We're not worthy!
Seriously: you guys rock.
As long as there is support for the 48/52(if it comes back),·count me in for at least one copy maybe two.·(One for my Day job, and one for my Contract work!)
Can't wait to see some examples.
-Dan
·
Thank you, TDP, molon labe, montani semper liberi, & para fides paternae patria
SX18AC
SX20AC
SX28AC
SX48BD
SX52BD
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
So has this been in work for a while?·Just thinking it being November now, October then,·and the product ready to ship in December.
Not trying to be (too) nosy, just curious that its so quick!
Where do I sign!!
James
regards peter
Yes, CCS and the SX-Key IDE engineer (Peter M.) have resolved some basic interface issues. And CCS has agreed to provide Parallax with 10 copies we can distribute to our beta users for feature feedback. For now, the chips lie with Peter as he verifies the COD file format is working correctly. Then, we'll do some basic functional tests within Parallax before distributing 10 copies to customers on this discussion forum.
Thanks,
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
grin!
-Dan
·
I'll give a copy to the biggest critics this list can produce. As I've mentioned before, this is the "customer's compiler" because unlike other products we manufacture, we're only in a management position with this one and I'm relying on users to make it complete. We'll be facilitating a nice product from CCS. If you can bang on it, find weaknesses, and make critical requests (suggestions for improvements) then you'll get one of the free copies. Just remind me when we start to seek such testers.
Parallax would have a more active role in this compiler if we had the engineering time, but I think you'd rather see us spend our time on something else under development. More on that later.
Ken Gracey
Parallax, Inc.
Like how much later? [noparse];)[/noparse] weeks, months... You can't say something like that without expecting people to be curious.
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www.speechchips.com
Speech & Video IC's for BasicStamps
It's posts like the above that has all but completely shut-down ANY anouncement of ANY product until the last minute.
Please don't take this the wrong way, I'n not picking on your post, just trying to make a comment in general.
Parallax has been beating-up many times for announcing a "future" product, then people start bashing them for not having it available.
I don't speak for Parallax, but I've seen it happen, and I've seen the announcments come to a very abrupt end.
Bean.
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"SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012
"SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015
Product web site: www.sxvm.com
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there."
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I guess it's a "sign of the times". People have been burnt with vaporware [noparse][[/noparse] like the goonwave [noparse]:([/noparse] ] so they think that is what everyone does. But it doesn't take much to delay a product release.
Bean.
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"SX-Video·Module" Now available from Parallax for only $28.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30012
"SX-Video OSD module" Now available from Parallax for only·$49.95
http://www.parallax.com/detail.asp?product_id=30015
Product web site: www.sxvm.com
"Ability may get you to the top, but it takes character to keep you there."
Post Edited (Bean (Hitt Consulting)) : 2/10/2006 1:56:09 PM GMT
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·· Don't forget on the video game side (which I no longer play) the Duke Nukem Game...How many years has that been in development?
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com
Obviously, CCS is a blessing to learners who already know it. Hopefully a little positive encouragement will bring it along.
I am waiting for delivery of a copy of Kernighan & Richies, C Programing Language,·2nd Edition to get up to speed.
These days it seems that several resources provide examples in PSEUDO CODE [noparse][[/noparse]like the Seattle Robotics site], which is really a generalized C.
So having some knowledge of it will help pull in more ideas from other places.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan
Post Edited (Kramer) : 2/12/2006 10:56:12 AM GMT
Duke Nukem! Oh, man. I just read an announcement the other day on digg.com.
I can't believe the Nukem legend/vaporware thing won't fizzle out.
On topic:
I have over a decade in C/C++. I would love to beta test your new C compiler.
I will stay tuned for your request for beta testers, when that comes.
I'm very excited about a C compiler for the SX.
Take your time and make it the quality app Parallax in known for.
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- - - PLJack - - -
Perfection in design is not achieved when there is nothing left to add.
It is achieved when there is nothing left to take away.
Just wanted to provide a quick update on the C compiler support status. First of all, you should understand that this involves work back and forth between two companies - CCS and Parallax. Second, when I say "Parallax", I really mean "me". Third, when I say... "me", I mean the me who is not an employee of Parallax, but just a sub-contractor working for Parallax on the SX-Key IDE. Fourth, when I say... well, let me just add that I took on a full time job a few months ago that shipped me to Hong Kong, and there is a 16 hour time difference between myself and Parallax or CCS.
Okay, now that you have a tiny bit of history on who is working on this and the status of the players, let me explain a little further. Anytime you have two companies working back and forth via email to write software that has to work together, it just takes longer than you think it will. Add in Christmas holidays and me being thousands of miles away, and it just gets a little slower yet.
Now, having said all of that, I think we may have overcome the last of the nagging problems. I have just sent a beta copy of the SX-Key IDE to CCS for them to test. Now, before you get too excited, bear in mind that they may write back in a few days (or more... or less) and tell me that there is some major problem I missed or created. This could send me back to working on the code some more, followed by sending a copy to CCS, etc, etc.
So, in the interest of helping everyone on the forum who is interested about the C compiler support, I put together the FAQ below based on some hypothetical questions that I believe people want answered.
Thanks, PeterM
The CCS compiler support FAQ:
Please understand that I AM NOT SPEAKING FOR PARALLAX, THE VIEWS AND OPINIONS EXPRESSED BELOW ARE STRICTLY MY OWN:
1 - Is any work actually happening on adding support for the CCS compiler to the SX-Key IDE?
You bet work is actually happening. It just takes a lot longer to write software that will be used and abused by a huge number of people than it does to write a program that is only going to be used by yourself. Even simple changes need to be tested to prevent thousands of users from angrily calling Parallax complaining about a problem in the new software release. I also try to make the whole IDE backward compatible so that you don't have to do a lot of work to get started with the new version of the IDE.
2 - Are you guys lazy bums, or just people who like to tease about release dates?
Personally, I don't think of myself as lazy, and as for being a tease? Well, that's not something I've ever really been accused of in the past, so I assume I'm not. Say, you are kind of cute. Don't touch me.
3 - Duke Nukem... <cough> <cough> Duke Nukem...
Are you completely high? When we hit our first decade of development (or however long it's has been with Duke) without a release, feel free to burn me in public effigy. Until then? Relax. It's coming. Would I lie to you?
4- When it will be done and ready for public download?
I don't know. I'm not ignorant and I'm not dodging the question. CCS modifies their code, and they send it to me. I modify my code, and I send it to them. Lather, rinse, repeat. The day we stop sending stuff back and forth is the day it's done and you'll be among the very first to know.
5 - Am I going to be dazzled and amazed with the new compiler support? Will it be everything I hope for?
I seriously doubt it. It's software. It's a matter of personal taste.
6 - Will it work exactly like I expect it to?
See the answer to question 5.
7 - If I'm not thrilled, will it ever be changed until I am?
As long as the changes are reasonable and would benefit the majority of the user base, it's quite likely. Work on the the IDE is almost never completely dormant. At the very least, I do bug fixes on my own as I discover them while working with the SX-Key. Yes, I'm a user as well as the current software developer on the SX-Key IDE, and I use it just like you do to make projects with the SX-Key.
8 - Will I be aware of big changes the moment I start the IDE?
I doubt it. As a rule of thumb, I try to make things as seamless and invisible as possible. Most of the changes are subtler and more internal. It's not like Quicken where every new version has a completely new interface you have to learn. The Sx-Key tends to look and feel the same from release to release, only it has some new features and/or bug fixes.
9 - This is taking so long, I could write it faster than you bozos. Why don't you open source it so the community can take a crack at it? Then you'll see how fast things get changed!
Funny you should mention open source. A few years back, there was a great hue and cry to open source the IDE since Parallax hadn't done any work on it in a long time. Parallax listened and Parallax heard, and they released the IDE at the time as an open source project. So, after the download stampede was over, how many people ever modified or improved the code and released it back to the public? Exactly one - Me. Not exactly a shining example of the power of the open source community to rush in and solve the problem. But hey, at least I did my part.
10 - I hate you! You suck!
I'm sorry, I can't hear you very well. It sounded like you asked me to slow down and take as long as I need, but that would be silly, right?
11 - I look forward to the new version.
Me too.
12 - Hey, stop wasting time writing FAQs and get back to writing code.
Good point. This FAQ is now officially concluded.
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Chris Savage
Parallax Tech Support
csavage@parallax.com
No, I just thought the "Duke Nukem" thing was funny enough to mention in my "FAQ". I think I mainly wanted to write, "Are you completley high?" as part of the answer in a FAQ. I don't know why, but using that as a reply just made me chuckle.
Thanks, PeterM
You and I are in the same time zone. I hope you like noodles.
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"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much.' - Walter Lippmann (1889-1974)
······································································ Warm regards,····· G. Herzog [noparse][[/noparse]·黃鶴 ]·in Taiwan