PINK help a la networking basics
Ryan Clarke
Posts: 738
With the release of the PINK I'd like to start a separate thread on networking basics to help out those not up to speed on all the networking buzz words, jargon, etc...
For our purposes I will simplify some things (so those of you network GURUs don't get upset if I dont' call out the details, this is to help get us all on the same page)-
The PINK module will need an IP address to communicate on a network. This address can be assigned one of two ways: directly, by the user assigning a valid IP address- or dynamically, using DHCP. A DHCP server must be active on your network for this to be an option. Many of the home router solutions out there have DHCP turned on by default. This facilitates the sharing of an internet connection across multiple computers.
To send UDP messages from PINK to PINK, you simply need to issue the command to send. (This is due to the fact that both will be automatically communicating on the same port, which currently is 10000.) If you are using a piece of software or other tool to send/receive UDP packets, such as the tools that Peter posted, you need to make sure that both are trying to use the same port.
To have the websites the PINK serves 'open' to the outside world, you will need to make sure that what ever routing solution you are using forwards port 80 traffic (TCP/UDP) to the internal IP of the PINK module. For example, say I have a PINK module in my network with IP address 192.168.0.21 (this is obviously an internal address, based on the range that was selected- for a list of ranges that are used internally only, Google is your friend)- and say I want to be able to goto a friend's house and get to the pink page from his internet connection. First I would need to know what my house's IP address was to the outside world. (By house I mean your network at home.) Most likely you have a dynamically assigned IP address, meaning it can change each time you turn on your computer or equipment. Generally even dynamically assigned IPs don't change that often (for those with broadband) - dial-up is a different story (we'll get to you later). If you have a Linksys, Dlink, etc., type of routing device for your broadband connection, you should be able to get to the status pages of the device and see what your IP is to the outside world. If you don't know how to do that, or can't find this information that way, try a Google search for "What is my IP", and pick one of the sites that shows up- it will give you your IP 'to the outside world'. After you have that information, you need to make sure that your port 80 traffic is internally routed to the PINK module. This will need to be set on your router/gateway device- you forward port 80 to the internal ip of your PINK (like the 192.168.0.21 in this example)- With this information, you can now goto your friend's house, and type in a browser your EXTERNAL IP address. This will return what ever is on your PINK.
Here is an example using numbers:
PINK internal IP: 192.168.0.21
MY external IP: 205.158.116.216
My router is set to take all port 80 traffic and forward it to 192.168.0.21
I goto my friend's house and on his computer open Firefox (or Internet Explorer). In the address bar I type:
http://205.158.116.216
The webpage from my PINK module will now show up.
It sounds more complicated than it is.
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
For our purposes I will simplify some things (so those of you network GURUs don't get upset if I dont' call out the details, this is to help get us all on the same page)-
The PINK module will need an IP address to communicate on a network. This address can be assigned one of two ways: directly, by the user assigning a valid IP address- or dynamically, using DHCP. A DHCP server must be active on your network for this to be an option. Many of the home router solutions out there have DHCP turned on by default. This facilitates the sharing of an internet connection across multiple computers.
To send UDP messages from PINK to PINK, you simply need to issue the command to send. (This is due to the fact that both will be automatically communicating on the same port, which currently is 10000.) If you are using a piece of software or other tool to send/receive UDP packets, such as the tools that Peter posted, you need to make sure that both are trying to use the same port.
To have the websites the PINK serves 'open' to the outside world, you will need to make sure that what ever routing solution you are using forwards port 80 traffic (TCP/UDP) to the internal IP of the PINK module. For example, say I have a PINK module in my network with IP address 192.168.0.21 (this is obviously an internal address, based on the range that was selected- for a list of ranges that are used internally only, Google is your friend)- and say I want to be able to goto a friend's house and get to the pink page from his internet connection. First I would need to know what my house's IP address was to the outside world. (By house I mean your network at home.) Most likely you have a dynamically assigned IP address, meaning it can change each time you turn on your computer or equipment. Generally even dynamically assigned IPs don't change that often (for those with broadband) - dial-up is a different story (we'll get to you later). If you have a Linksys, Dlink, etc., type of routing device for your broadband connection, you should be able to get to the status pages of the device and see what your IP is to the outside world. If you don't know how to do that, or can't find this information that way, try a Google search for "What is my IP", and pick one of the sites that shows up- it will give you your IP 'to the outside world'. After you have that information, you need to make sure that your port 80 traffic is internally routed to the PINK module. This will need to be set on your router/gateway device- you forward port 80 to the internal ip of your PINK (like the 192.168.0.21 in this example)- With this information, you can now goto your friend's house, and type in a browser your EXTERNAL IP address. This will return what ever is on your PINK.
Here is an example using numbers:
PINK internal IP: 192.168.0.21
MY external IP: 205.158.116.216
My router is set to take all port 80 traffic and forward it to 192.168.0.21
I goto my friend's house and on his computer open Firefox (or Internet Explorer). In the address bar I type:
http://205.158.116.216
The webpage from my PINK module will now show up.
It sounds more complicated than it is.
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
Comments
It is much easier with DHCP, with PINK right out of the box plugged via the blue cable into the router. Then find its assigned IP address (from the router status page), and open its web page and click on the links to the configuration pages. That can be done on any computer on the network, such as my Macintoshe. Or run IPSetup on a Windows PC and it will find PINK on the network no matter what its IP address happens to be set at.
Thanks the info about passthrough from port 80 to PINK on a dynamic address. I suppose there are utilities that will monitor the dynamic IP address? So for example I could have a link on a static, hosted web page back to the current address of PINK on my dynamic IP. And if the dynamic address changes, the link on the static page could in short order, automatically be updated. Do such utilities exist?
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
You bring up a good point: Why the two cables? One red, one blue. The Blue cable is a straight through, what you'd use to connet the PINK directly to a HUB or router or switch. The red cable is a cross over cable, used to connect a PC directly to the PINK module.
I plan on getting more info up here soon.
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
Check out http://www.dyndns.com/ for one source.
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John R.
8 + 8 = 10
You can also try " www.no-ip.com " they are pretty good .
I have been using them for a while now...
Bob N9LVU
Under the "advanced" tab, one option is the DMZ (demilitarized zone), "used to allow a single computer on the LAN to be exposed to the internet" with a blank to fill in its IP address on the LAN. I guess that is what I need, but there is no further configuration (i.e. no mention of port 80 or tcp/ip). There is also a firewall configuration screen with lots and lots of options.
Under the "tools" tab, there is a DDNS option that, amazingly, takes care of exactly what I was wondering. On a pulldown menu it lists the services you guys have suggested, namely no-ip.com, easydns.com and dyndns.org, and has fields to fill in some account information. I think that once that is done, the router itself will inform the forwarder every time the dynamic IP address changes, and the forwarding service will update a static pointer to dynamic address. Cool!
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
I did find the Virtual Server option, and attached a view of the configuration page. I'm not sure how to fill in the blanks.
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
I never did understand the ports hierarchy....but how would the router know that I'd want to use port 80 by just typing in http://205.158.116.216??
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Steve
"Inside each and every one of us is our one, true authentic swing. Something we was born with. Something that's ours and ours alone. Something that can't be learned... something that's got to be remembered."
You would give the device a name, like PINK,
the private IP would be the IP of the PINK inside the network (the internal address),
the type should let you set 'both' for TCP and UDP- if not you can create two entries,
the private port would be 80,
the public port would be 80 also UNLESS you already have a webserver set up- then you could specify a different external port, such as 8080- HOWEVER, if you do that, when you type the address from outside your network, you would have to specify the port number like this: (say the address of your HOME NETWORK, the OUTSIDE IP, was 214.215.34.56)
http:214.215.34.56:8080
The colon number is the port number. If you set up this way, you can have the public think they are accessing port 8080, but that traffic is routed internally to your pink, on port 80-
The schedule would be 'always'-
Then you should be good!
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
80 is the DEFAULT http port, so if you don't indicate a port, it goes to 80 automatically. Other 'common' ports to use for web traffic are 8080 (just 80 doubled!) or other 'higher numbers'- If you are using a non-standard port, it is probably good practice to Google for that port, to see if it is a 'standard' for other things (like 21, 23, etc)...
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
I have set my router settings as in the attachements.
My router's security log shows accessing the pink using http, ftp, telnet or sending
udp messages are treated as LAND attacks. How can I prevent this?
security log:
·11/11/2005· 01:08:56 192.168.2.112 login success
11/11/2005· 01:08:47 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 56500->> 62.166.28.248, 10000
11/11/2005· 01:08:08 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55013->> 62.166.28.248, 23
11/11/2005· 01:08:02 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55013->> 62.166.28.248, 23
11/11/2005· 01:07:59 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55013->> 62.166.28.248, 23
11/11/2005· 01:07:22 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55012->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:07:16 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55012->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:07:13 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55012->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:07:00 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55011->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:06:54 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55011->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:06:51 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55011->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:06:39 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55010->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:06:37 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55009->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:06:33 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55010->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:06:31 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55010->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:06:29 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55009->> 62.166.28.248, 21
11/11/2005· 01:06:08 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55008->> 62.166.28.248, 80
11/11/2005· 01:06:02 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55008->> 62.166.28.248, 80
11/11/2005· 01:05:59 **LAND** 62.166.28.248, 55008->> 62.166.28.248, 80
Access to the pink from any pc on my lan is working.
regards peter
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
71.131.214.94/rhtx.html
It isn't much, but very satifying. It is a dynamic URL and will change sooner or later, and I haven't yet subscribed to any of the DNS services that folks suggeste
For today I have unplugged everything else on my LAN so that I won't encourage a security breech. But I think the above virtual server only opens that one port to PINK, right? A I don't understand the security issues that Peter mentioned just above. What other security concerns should I have?
Ryan, I followed your instructions and set up the virtual server, and the PINK was added as an option at the bottom of the screen I posted as a screen-shot. One question I had about that form, where I entered the "private IP", it was the IP address dynamically assigned by the router. The dilemma as I see it is that the value I enter into the "private IP" field might as some later time no longer point to PINK, if the router is assigning addresses. I can assign a higher fixed address within the range assigned to the router, but I think there might be a down side to doing that.
BTW, telnet worked fine. There is a typo in the instructions, where it says to type telnet xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx. The format has to include
The first time I tried to send variables from the Stamp to the web page, something got locked up, and there was no telnet and no variable updating. But it came back to life when I cycled the power on the PINK. I don't know what happened. Are the netburner signal pins isolated with resistors or anything like that?
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
Also, somewhere else it was stated that only one of the serial ports is active in the current firmware. Is it a correct assumption that that is TX1/RX1 on Pins-3/4? Are RTS1/CTS1 active?
I was curious about the power connector Pin-1 is labelled "VCC" and Pin-3 is "Vcc". Is there a distinction here or is it a quirk of whomever wrote the docs?
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cheers ... brian riley, n1bq, underhill center, vermont
It's not a typo, from a DOS box the format does not use the
Congrats on getting it up and running! Very cool.
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
Congrats indeed. Can you also ftp, telnet and send udp messages across the internet?
For that you should enable the virtual server for ftp, telnet and udp. That would forward
ports 21, 23 and 10000 just as port 80 is for http.
Ryan,
I played with my router firewall settings. The first time I disabled SPI and DoS setting.
Then I tried to access the pink using http. I immediately lost my internet connection
(security log shows: Line 0 logged out Tunnel succesfully destroyed. 10.0.0.138)
10.0.0.138 is my adsl modem. So the router disconnected. I don't know why.
Other settings were not succesful either. The only thing that works for me is DMZ.
I assume the pink only serves requests on ports 80 (http), 21 (ftp), 23 (telnet) and 10000 (udp)
which must be forwarded anyway to enable these servers for the internet. So how insecure
would·DMZ really be if used for the pink?
regards peter
I've not tried UDP yet. I've used ftp and telnet successfully from within the office LAN.
I just tried it from home, but I havea Macintosh (spelled out!) here, and it does not have the drag and drop ftp: interface that is nice on IE for the PC. That is where the password is verified I think. Anyway, my ftp: client on the Macintosh (Fetch) times out when I attempt the ftp connection, even though I gave it my username and pw.
On the Macintosh, telnet jumps right into the Unix terminal mode, and that too times out. I don't know how it would handle the password. Actually, I don't recall if telnet on the LAN asked for the password, but I assume it should.
I can access the http: setup pages on PINK from home, after entering the uid & pw.
Oops, I just noticed that the dew point numbers are wrong. typo? I was watching the numbers fly, not the numbers themselves!
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
If you don't have the virtual servers for ftp and telnet enabled, you would get timeouts
trying to access the pink from internet using ftp or telnet.
Across the LAN you have direct access to the pink, so that works.
I use DMZ (no alternative for me) and I noticed telnet does not require to enter
username and password. But with telnet you only see the communication between
stamp and pink. I don't think you can send anything using telnet (that I know off anyway).
Also sending udp messages does not require username and password. Now that could
be worrying if you want to use udp to instruct the stamp remotely.
regards peter
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what are Finder and Go-Connect to Server?
regards peter
Forrest is talking about Mac tools. (So in reality, is he talking about BSD tools? Kidding. Sort of.)
As far as the DMZ for the PINK only, I don't see a problem for that. I wonder why you can't just port route for 21, 80, 10000, etc...
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
I checked the router manufacturer for a firmware update.
It appears my model (1999) cannot be updated·and the builtin firewall cannot
be disabled apart from the SPI and DoS module. I think it is a bug
in the firmware. I consider a new router.
regards peter
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The Finder, on the Macintosh is kind of like Windows Explorer on the PC. When looking at the Macintosh desktop, the menu bar across the top is the "Finder" menu, and there is a "Go" menu, and an item there is "connect to server...". Thanks for bringing it up, Forrest. I didn't realize that I could use that for an ftp connection. Cool. It displays a window with the contents of the remote server. I can't use it yet for the PINK, because I think I need to do what Peter suggested and set up try to set up virtual servers on my router for ftp and for telnet. I wonder if I then could use that for drag and drop updates of PINK on the Macintosh, instead of having to go to IE on the PC?
Remote telnet will be useful. It looks like the variables on my little demo page have stopped updating from the Stamp.
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
I still have not gotten the ftp drag and drop window using Forest's suggestion with "finder/go/connect". PINK accepts the user name and password fine, but then I get an error message, "The Finder cannot complete the operation because some data in "ftp://192.168.0.104" could not be read or written. (Error code -36)".
Ryan, could you ask your buddies at netburner if they have suggestions about ftp from the Macintosh?
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
You do have the port for FTP open, correct? (20,21 - both UDP and TCP)-
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
In the meantime, I corrected the error in Stamp dew point calculation and found why the communication with PINK got stuck, and added display of local time. The IP address has not changed yet,
71.131.214.94/rhtx.html
I attached another image from the virtual server page of the d-link router. I want to set up for WAN ftp and for WAN telnet. In the image I have selected and highlighted the ftp line toward the bottom, and the port is now 21 for private and public. To open up the WAN to PINK, I think I now have to enter its LAN address, currently 192.168.0.104 in the "private IP" field, right? The protocol options are "ftp", "udp" or "both". When I select the line "virtual server telnet" at the bottom instead of "virtual server ftp", everything stays the same except the ports change to 23. I am still concerned about the possibility of the LAN address for PINK changing at some point in time as the router automatically assgns LAN IP addresses. Huh?
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
Another fun thing you can do is make a reference to the IP in your hosts file (on a Windoze PC)- so that you can just type the 'host name' locally; like just type PINK into the address window....
Tracy, try changing the type to BOTH (instead of just TCP)- you can use their Virtual server setting, no problem- Set the private IP to the internal address of your PINK, and enable the connection...that should work...
Ryan
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Ryan Clarke
Parallax Tech Support
RClarke@Parallax.com
Or perhaps I misinterpreting...
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Truly Understand the Fundamentals and the Path will be so much easier...
Still no joy with the FINDER/GO/CONNECT TO SERVER drag and drop window.
I see the "gateway, DNS and subnet" catagories in relation to the static IP within the LAN, but I' really have no idea what those terms mean functionally. As the man said, "Truly Understand the Fundamentals and the Path will be so much easier...". I understand that setting the static address within the LAN is an entirely different from DNS forwarding I will need to deal with to make a static pointer to my dynamic IP on the WAN side.
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Tracy Allen
www.emesystems.com
You need to assign·the pink ip address·static because when the
DHCP'd address lease expires, the pink will be assigned another address
but your private ip settings in your virtual servers are not.
Easiest way is to go to the nb_factory.htm page on the pink.
Go to the configuration page.
Select IP mode static settings
DHCP assigned settings and static settings should be identical.(current setting)
Click on submit new settings.
From now on your pink will have private ip 192.168.0.104 (I believe it was)
permanently.
Now you only have to deal with your dynamic public ip address.
regards peter
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