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Experimenting with the Tab Sumo Bot — Parallax Forums

Experimenting with the Tab Sumo Bot

pbpb Posts: 6
edited 2005-11-06 21:26 in Robotics
Hello All,

I have a Tab Sumo Bot and want to try experimenting with it.·The documentation seems to end after a brief explanation about programming and·the preprogrammed "behaviors".(although they do include the PBasic·Manual). I was expecting·a chapter or two on additional activities or experiments. Since that didn't happen, I have a bunch of questions:

Can I do everything with its onboard BS2 chip that a normal BS2 will do?

Is there anything that I need to watch out for (you know, something that will blow it up or cook something on the board)?

Will·programs written for the BS2 run on the Tab Sumo Bot? (I assume that all I have to do is account for the pins that feed the PIC chip?) I'd like to try using a separate H Bridge and running two other motors with PWM, effectively bypassing the PIC.

Also, I was looking at the Board of Education experiments. I'd like to try to do these on my Tab Sumo Bot. Are there any that won't work or that will damage my board if I try?

Thanks,

pb

Comments

  • ForrestForrest Posts: 1,341
    edited 2005-02-07 18:26
    I've connected a few things to the Sumobot, including a 16 x 2 line parallel LCD and it works fine with the existing BS2 programs. The only things you'll need to watch for is P11-P16 of the BS2 are used to interface with the PIC processor, and Vdd (5V DC) isn't available on the Tab Sumobot. I connected a transformer switch diode to the Battery line - which gave me 5.3V DC and was good enough to run the LCD (5V +/- 10%). If you search the forums - there are other suggestions on how to get a stable 5V DC - but it's going to cost you a few bucks (up to $25) if you want stable, regulated 5V from the (4) AA batteries.
  • Russ FergusonRuss Ferguson Posts: 206
    edited 2005-02-08 01:31
    I have successfully used the TAB SUMOBOT to do all of the activities in the "What's a Microcontroller?" book. I also assisted a small group of 8 students in doing this.

    The pictures in the Parallax book will not match the layout of the TAB SUMOBOT so you will have to think very carefully about what you are doing.

    Here are some things to note:
    1. There is no practical way to use pins 11-15 for anything other than what the TAB design has dedicated them to do. So there are a few activities where you will have to use different pins.
    2. Unplug the motor connectors and you will be able to totally ignore the co-processor while you are doing the activities. It will not be necessary to include the "robot commands" section or send a "RobotStop" instruction to the coprocessor.
    3. The TAB SUMOBOT uses different labels for the power connections. VSS is "Gnd", VDD is "Vcc", and Vin is "Vbatt". Note: VDD is not 5 volts, it is 4.2 volts. Use "Vbatt" for the activities. This difference does not effect your ability to do the activities. (Activities with servos are also OK.)
    4. Rechargeable batteries can be used with the TAB SUMOBOT if you want. The 4.2 volt regulator make this possible.
    5. Parallax protects the pins by putting a current limiting resistors on their boards. The TAB SUMOBOT does not have the limiting resistor built in, and it is easy to burn a pin out if you are careless in wiring the activities.
    6. Put a piece of electrical tape over the two '4-40 counter sunk flat head screws' which hold the battery holders in place. It is relatively easy to have a sharp edge of a screw work its' way through the insulation on the side of a battery and cause a short circuit. We had the battery holders melt down on one of our SUMOBOTS. (Had to replace the battery holders to get it working again.)
    7. The plastic press-on worm gear/spur gear design is not durable and will not work well for any length of time. Expect to have to replace the entire drive train fairly soon.

    These are only my observations. Please communicate with the author and designer to verify that this is correct. I found them to be very helpful when we burned the battery holder on the one board.

    My WEB page documents a few of the mods the class made to the TAB SUMOBOT last year.
  • pbpb Posts: 6
    edited 2005-02-13 16:45
    Thanks, Russ. That was a big help. On my SumoBot i think the VDD is labeld +3V, because there is no Vcc. (or at least that is whar I've been using as I work through "What's a Microprocessor".)

    I also checked out your web page. Coincidentallly, I was just thinking about adding the Solarbotics gearmotors and a line sensor. Thanks for that info too.

    pb
  • ForrestForrest Posts: 1,341
    edited 2005-02-13 18:20
    The connection labeled +3V on the Tab SumoBot is a regulated and fairly stable at 3.9 to 4.0 Volts DC.
  • Russ FergusonRuss Ferguson Posts: 206
    edited 2005-02-14 14:58
    I see that I had the wrong numbers on the voltage out of the regulator. Forrest posted that the voltage regulator is 3.9volts, and he is correct.

    pb posted that the label was '+3' and not 'Vcc'. This is also correct.

    I appologise for the corrections. I should have checked my details before making the post.

    The line sensors we used last year were based on the voltage divider design. Differences in room lighting were difficult to deal with when we sumo'd. It required alot of testing to get the reference resistor (a trim pot) set correctly. Some of the class members should have experimented with an RCtime design. A dedicated light source for the CDs sensors might also have helped. It is always good to see what others are doing to get reliable results.
  • Russ FergusonRuss Ferguson Posts: 206
    edited 2005-02-14 15:41
    We used the TAB Sumobot last school year. This year we are using the Parallax "Robotics" with the Boe-Bot. It is alot easier for everyone when they can go exactly by the book.

    The poor design of the TAB Sumobot drivetrain was very discouraging to most members of the class last year. I HIGHLY recommend installing Solarbotics gear motors in the TAB Sumobot platform. The GM8 is a little faster than a servo, and I think it also has a little more torgue.

    The next modification is to use external IR emitters driven directly from the BS2. The detectors from the Sumobot are wired directly to one of the BS2 pins, so it is not necessary to have external detectors. We found that we could not get good performance during a sumo match if we tried to use the co-processor to control the on board emitters.
  • LawrencLLawrencL Posts: 49
    edited 2005-02-15 20:05
    Hi Russ:

    What parts did you replace with the GM8 motor?

    Just the motor or did you replace the worm, gears,·axles·wheels and tank tread?

    Do you have picture of how your did this?

    This should probably be put up on the tabrobotkit Yahoo group.

    Thanks,

    Lawrence
  • Robert SchwartzRobert Schwartz Posts: 141
    edited 2005-02-16 05:18
    Russ said...

    The poor design of the TAB Sumobot drivetrain was very discouraging to most members of the class last year. I HIGHLY recommend installing Solarbotics gear motors in the TAB Sumobot platform. The GM8 is a little faster than a servo, and I think it also has a little more torgue.

    The gm8 does indeed have slightly more torque than a servo, at about 50 oz-in, compared to a servo's approx. 48oz-in. However, it runs a bit slower than a servo at 38 rpm. However, 38 rpm is fine for a sumo-bot where speed is less important (generally) than torque.

    EDIT: nevermind, thinking about the gm2/3

    Post Edited (Robert Schwartz) : 2/16/2005 4:44:44 PM GMT
  • Russ FergusonRuss Ferguson Posts: 206
    edited 2005-02-16 14:57
    Thank you for the encouragement to post it on the tabrobotkit Yahoo Page. That page was very helpful to me last year and you will find some posts about the mod over there. Guess that I will have to try to get a PDF of our page posted in there.

    The Gearmotor installation is documented on our page.
    http://www.robotics.decfamily.com/
    See "Gearmotor Installation" in the list on the left.


    Another note:
    The Solarbotics page gives these specs on the GM8:
    "This 143:1 gear motor spins at 70RPM at 5V, drawing 670mA at stall generating 43 in*oz torque (free running at 57.6mA)."

    GM2:
    "This motor offers 50 in*oz of torque, rotating 360 degrees every 1.6 seconds (38 rpm - just a hair slower than a servo), at 5V, drawing 600mA at stall (free running at 52mA)."

    We tried both the GM2 and the GM8 and had alot more fun with the GM8.
  • LawrencLLawrencL Posts: 49
    edited 2005-02-16 20:30
    Hi Russ:

    I say the bracket you made to mount the the GM8 motors to the TAB Sumo-bot on· your website.

    You should mass produce these and sell them for $10.00.

    Put me down for at least one!!

    Good Job!!

    Lawrence
  • aboticsabotics Posts: 6
    edited 2005-02-24 15:27
    Is the link http://www.robotics.decfamily.com/
    ·active? Just wanted to check out the GM8 motor mount.

    Thanks, Abe
  • Russ FergusonRuss Ferguson Posts: 206
    edited 2005-02-24 18:10
    I'm sorry, but the page is down. I have reported it but there hasn't been any response yet.

    The attached pdf file·contains the·information from the page.
    pdf
    pdf
    SolarboticsGM8.pdf
    740K
  • aboticsabotics Posts: 6
    edited 2005-02-24 18:31
    Thanks so much Russ. I just ordered a set of the GM8s and was curious as to how you mounted them. Very nice job. I'll be using the GM8s for something other than a TAB Robot. I'll be sure to share with everyone how I end up mounting them. I'll post it on my Build-It Yourself Page: http://www.abotics.com/buildit_yourself.htm

    Thanks again, Abe
  • gelfling6gelfling6 Posts: 60
    edited 2005-05-24 22:01
    Just a note, I had one of the track O-Rings break apart. Nothing stressed it, but it simply broke.. leaving with a poor Sumo,
    Hobbling along on one track, and jumping on the motor driven wheel of the other side.... I needed to find a replacement!

    Now, 1st place tried: Loews Home Improvement, Plumbing section: Nothing bigger than a 1.25" ID.. No Help!
    2nd place tried, Home Depot.. Again, nothing close match, but noticed several water filter systems, which used a
    similar ring for sealing the chambers. 3rd place tried: AutoZone (a fairly large auto-parts retailer, Like ACME Auto, and
    Pep-Boys.) Nothing even close, Even looking at seals for Diesel engine themostats, or Sub-compact engine water pumps.

    shakehead.gif

    Giving up hope, and leaving Autozone, I spotted a pool supply store.. No.. It couldn't be that easy, could it? idea.gif

    Can't remember the exact manufacturer's name, but 2 brand new 2" ID O-Rings, Originally designed to seal the bypass
    valves for a pool filter. Perfect fit! Sumo-1 is back up & roaming! Bought total of 4, and replaced them on Sumo-1
    as well (yes, Sumo-1 & Sumo-2.. I bought 2 at CompUSA last year.)


    Still freaked-out by the $70.00 USD difference between the $29.95 special, and seeing the same kits at a
    Barnes & Nobel, for $99.95. freaked.gif

    Total price: $3.49 USD each O-Ring, so $13+ has both bots rolling along with no problems! burger.gif

    Stephen yeah.gif

    Post Edited (gelfling6) : 5/24/2005 10:07:09 PM GMT
  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2005-05-25 00:37
    Well done. The original package cost $99. Then it didn't sell well, so B&N dropped the price to $70. Even then there were a lot more left, so CompUSA got them to sell for $29.00.

    But thanks for the source of the O-rings, that's excellent!
  • gelfling6gelfling6 Posts: 60
    edited 2005-05-25 21:37
    Anytime! Here're the I.D> off the label:

    O-Ring Hayward S200-Z3 0-43 66250

    Barcode ID: 601402150432

    came from a place called Leslie's Swimingpool Supply, in Southington, Ct. (USA) (which is the local store to me)

    their website is http://www.lesliespool.com ..

    can't quite find the part form their website, but should be able to track-down a local store, and have them
    get it from their parts department. I think it's either a filter or bypass valve O-Ring.
  • gelfling6gelfling6 Posts: 60
    edited 2005-10-27 23:31
    Ressurecting an old topic here..

    Alas, both of my TAB Sumo's are in sorry shape... smhair.gif

    I lost 2 wheel assemblies from Sumo-2, and all 8 gears on the axles of both, are
    cracked, and won't grab the axle. Anyone know where I can pick-up the gears?

    Thinking of replacing the base of one, with the remains of a RC tank, which I rescued,
    without the remote.

    Back working on my schoolbus, and entertaining a new group of kindergarteners
    with 'Boe'.. (BOE-Bot).. Planning on making a simple IR range experiment, with
    an LED display output (range the IR pulse to 9 settings, and have the LED
    display 0 (no echo) to 9 (farthest away).


    Stephen
  • allanlane5allanlane5 Posts: 3,815
    edited 2005-10-28 20:28
    You can use super-glue to bond the gears to the axle (if you don't mind making them permanent).

    BOE-Bot is more robust, actually. I'll always have a fond place in my heart for the TAB SumoBot, though, that was my introduction to Parallax processors.
  • gelfling6gelfling6 Posts: 60
    edited 2005-10-28 23:19
    allanlane5 said...
    You can use super-glue to bond the gears to the axle (if you don't mind making them permanent).

    BOE-Bot is more robust, actually. I'll always have a fond place in my heart for the TAB SumoBot, though, that was my introduction to Parallax processors.


    Same here! Though, I'm afraid super/crazy glue won't quite cut it.. The gears are split,
    all the way from the shaft, out to the teeth.. If I were to glue them, and re-insert the shaft,
    they'd split again, right at the glue.. to say nothing of the jumping/jamming of the worm
    gear against the spread teeth area. nono.gif

    Guessing my only option, would be trying to find a hobby shop, that has gears for
    RC cars, and see if anything near-matches them..

    Thanks Allan!

    Stephen
  • ForrestForrest Posts: 1,341
    edited 2005-10-28 23:49
    Check out the links Russ left above. He bought 2 servo motors with wheels and fabricated an aluminum bracket for about $20 total cost.
  • Kenny GardnerKenny Gardner Posts: 169
    edited 2005-10-29 19:51
    Acroname sells replacement parts for the TAB Sumo.

    Look under the Kits Section.

    http://www.acroname.com/

    The O'Rings can be purchased at any ACE or True Value hardware store. I have to replace mine every 2 months because they crack. Must be the Ocean weather.

    Kenny



    ▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔
    --

    Kenny Gardner
    GAP Development Company
    http://www.gapdev.com/
    ·
  • gelfling6gelfling6 Posts: 60
    edited 2005-11-06 21:26
    Kenny Gardner said...
    Acroname sells replacement parts for the TAB Sumo.

    Look under the Kits Section.

    http://www.acroname.com/

    The O'Rings can be purchased at any ACE or True Value hardware store. I have to replace mine every 2 months because they crack. Must be the Ocean weather.

    Kenny

    I mentioned before, the O-Rings can be bought at a Pool & Spa supply place as well (Leslie's Pool Supply, I bought 4 new
    rings, perfect fit!) The catalog for Acroname is downloading now. (22MB, OUCH!*, Even at 56Mbit! freaked.gif)

    Stephen
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