Shop OBEX P1 Docs P2 Docs Learn Events
Reading tachometer signal... — Parallax Forums

Reading tachometer signal...

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2004-01-05 01:28 in General Discussion
Hello,
I'm trying to find out what is the best route in reading a tachometer
signal from a motor. I will have to tap into the coil ignition side
wire. The wire shows 12+ volts with the key on ignition with the
engine off then shows ground every time the coil fires when the motor
is running. This will show a low AC signal and maybe higher than 5
volts at higher rpms. I think I'll have to read how many times the
wire will show ground per second. Is there a way to connect it to the
Stamp or will I need some sort of external chip.

Thanks,
Cozz
«1

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-21 15:30
    I don't think you will see a low level AC, but you will see 0 volts and 2
    volts. One challenge is going to be the circuit that will interface to the
    negative side of the ignition coil. Indeed, the signal is 12 volts and 0 volts,
    but
    for short periods of time just after the coil ground is "let go" the voltage
    will reach close to 300 volts.

    I have messed with this several times, and because of my stupidity, I have
    yet to design a good circuit that can supress the 300 volt spikes seen on an
    oscope as the coil ground is let go. Any ideas out there? Some LC circuit?

    In any event, once the interface circuit is done and you have a clean signal,
    an opto isolator is in order.

    To read the signal with your stamp, you could use the PULSIN command and
    measue the HIGH time of the pulse, which will give you the time between coil
    events. Another command is COUNT that will measure the number of pulses for a
    given
    period, but this is unlikely the command you want if you need to fire an
    injector or some other thing.

    Another note assuming this is a modern engine.......for any given rpm the
    time between pulses will change based on engine load.....because as the ignition

    timing changes, the time when to fire the coil changes.

    Have you considered taking the signal from the Crankshaft or Camshaft
    position sensor? The signal from these sensors is often a "clean" 0 to 5 volts
    DC
    and will be much easier to deal with than the negative side of the coil.

    Hello,
    I'm trying to find out what is the best route in reading a tachometer
    signal from a motor. I will have to tap into the coil ignition side
    wire. The wire shows 12+ volts with the key on ignition with the
    engine off then shows ground every time the coil fires when the motor
    is running. This will show a low AC signal and maybe higher than 5
    volts at higher rpms. I think I'll have to read how many times the
    wire will show ground per second. Is there a way to connect it to the
    Stamp or will I need some sort of external chip.

    Thanks,
    Cozz


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-21 15:38
    In a message dated 12/21/2003 7:31:59 AM Pacific Standard Time,
    smartdim@a... writes:
    I don't think you will see a low level AC, but you will see 0 volts and 2
    volts.
    I don't think you will see a low level AC, but you will see 0 volts and 12
    volts.

    0 and 12, not 0 and 2


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-21 15:47
    Isn't there some way to use a coil of wire wrapped around the high voltage
    output wire (that is going to the distributor) of the coil? If its a
    somewhat newer car you might want to piggy back off the crank angle sensor
    (CAS).

    -Rob


    Original Message
    From: <smartdim@a...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 10:30 AM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Reading tachometer signal...


    > I don't think you will see a low level AC, but you will see 0 volts and 2
    > volts. One challenge is going to be the circuit that will interface to the
    > negative side of the ignition coil. Indeed, the signal is 12 volts and 0
    volts, but
    > for short periods of time just after the coil ground is "let go" the
    voltage
    > will reach close to 300 volts.
    >
    > I have messed with this several times, and because of my stupidity, I have
    > yet to design a good circuit that can supress the 300 volt spikes seen on
    an
    > oscope as the coil ground is let go. Any ideas out there? Some LC
    circuit?
    >
    > In any event, once the interface circuit is done and you have a clean
    signal,
    > an opto isolator is in order.
    >
    > To read the signal with your stamp, you could use the PULSIN command and
    > measue the HIGH time of the pulse, which will give you the time between
    coil
    > events. Another command is COUNT that will measure the number of pulses
    for a given
    > period, but this is unlikely the command you want if you need to fire an
    > injector or some other thing.
    >
    > Another note assuming this is a modern engine.......for any given rpm the
    > time between pulses will change based on engine load.....because as the
    ignition
    > timing changes, the time when to fire the coil changes.
    >
    > Have you considered taking the signal from the Crankshaft or Camshaft
    > position sensor? The signal from these sensors is often a "clean" 0 to 5
    volts DC
    > and will be much easier to deal with than the negative side of the coil.
    >
    >
    > Hello,
    > I'm trying to find out what is the best route in reading a tachometer
    > signal from a motor. I will have to tap into the coil ignition side
    > wire. The wire shows 12+ volts with the key on ignition with the
    > engine off then shows ground every time the coil fires when the motor
    > is running. This will show a low AC signal and maybe higher than 5
    > volts at higher rpms. I think I'll have to read how many times the
    > wire will show ground per second. Is there a way to connect it to the
    > Stamp or will I need some sort of external chip.
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Cozz
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-22 03:08
    I honestly think it is AC because I read a full -12 volts when the
    coil is fired. In fact, I think that's how a coil fires in the first
    place. Charge it like a cap then ground the positve side. I just want
    to read the RPM's and nothing more. I don't need to control any
    injectors and what not. If this is the case then I really like the
    COUNT feature. Should I place anything inline from the coil lead to
    the stamp other than a resistor? I'm afraid of burning the Stamp out.

    Thanks,
    Cozz

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > I don't think you will see a low level AC, but you will see 0 volts
    and 12
    > volts. One challenge is going to be the circuit that will interface
    to the
    > negative side of the ignition coil. Indeed, the signal is 12 volts
    and 0 volts, but
    > for short periods of time just after the coil ground is "let go"
    the voltage
    > will reach close to 300 volts.
    >
    > I have messed with this several times, and because of my stupidity,
    I have
    > yet to design a good circuit that can supress the 300 volt spikes
    seen on an
    > oscope as the coil ground is let go. Any ideas out there? Some LC
    circuit?
    >
    > In any event, once the interface circuit is done and you have a
    clean signal,
    > an opto isolator is in order.
    >
    > To read the signal with your stamp, you could use the PULSIN
    command and
    > measue the HIGH time of the pulse, which will give you the time
    between coil
    > events. Another command is COUNT that will measure the number of
    pulses for a given
    > period, but this is unlikely the command you want if you need to
    fire an
    > injector or some other thing.
    >
    > Another note assuming this is a modern engine.......for any given
    rpm the
    > time between pulses will change based on engine load.....because as
    the ignition
    > timing changes, the time when to fire the coil changes.
    >
    > Have you considered taking the signal from the Crankshaft or
    Camshaft
    > position sensor? The signal from these sensors is often a "clean"
    0 to 5 volts DC
    > and will be much easier to deal with than the negative side of the
    coil.

    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-22 03:55
    If you are talking about a "standard" automobile ignition coil, the negative
    side of the coil is a DC signal with respect to chassis ground.

    Again, assuming a standard vehicle ignition system, it works as follows:

    the coil is grounded to build up current in the coil primary windings, then
    the ground on the coil is QUICKLY released, which causes the high voltage that
    will jump the spark plug gap and of course, ignite the fuel air mixture in the
    combustion chamber.

    You ABSOLUTELY need some circuit to interface that negative side of the
    ignition coil to the Stamp or you WILL burn out the stamp. The Stamp input pins
    want a TTL level signal (basically 0 to 5 volts) and a 12 volt signal will
    damage
    the stamp.

    With regards to the voltage you are reading, you mentioned -12 volts.....are
    seeing minus 12 volts? What kind of engine is this?

    ken


    I honestly think it is AC because I read a full -12 volts when the
    coil is fired. In fact, I think that's how a coil fires in the first
    place. Charge it like a cap then ground the positve side. I just want
    to read the RPM's and nothing more. I don't need to control any
    injectors and what not. If this is the case then I really like the
    COUNT feature. Should I place anything inline from the coil lead to
    the stamp other than a resistor? I'm afraid of burning the Stamp out.

    Thanks,
    Cozz


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-24 03:53
    It's an old Ford. One side of the coil is always grounded. I'll
    double check the power on the coil. You're maybe right.

    What conversion is best to convert from 12 volts to TTL?

    Thanks,
    Cozz


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > If you are talking about a "standard" automobile ignition coil, the
    negative
    > side of the coil is a DC signal with respect to chassis ground.
    >
    > Again, assuming a standard vehicle ignition system, it works as
    follows:
    >
    > the coil is grounded to build up current in the coil primary
    windings, then
    > the ground on the coil is QUICKLY released, which causes the high
    voltage that
    > will jump the spark plug gap and of course, ignite the fuel air
    mixture in the
    > combustion chamber.
    > You ABSOLUTELY need some circuit to interface that negative side of
    the
    > ignition coil to the Stamp or you WILL burn out the stamp. The
    Stamp input pins
    > want a TTL level signal (basically 0 to 5 volts) and a 12 volt
    signal will damage
    > the stamp.
    > With regards to the voltage you are reading, you mentioned -12
    volts.....are
    > seeing minus 12 volts? What kind of engine is this?
    >
    > ken
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-24 05:40
    In a message dated 12/23/2003 7:55:30 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    cozz.home@v... writes:
    It's an old Ford. One side of the coil is always grounded. I'll
    double check the power on the coil. You're maybe right.

    What conversion is best to convert from 12 volts to TTL?

    Thanks,
    Cozz

    Cozz,

    There are a myrad of ways to convert the 0 to 12 volts to a TTL level signal,
    and here are two ways.

    METHOD ONE
    Safest way to protect your stamp........use a 4n35 opto isolator (this is a
    dip 8 package).

    Connect pin 1 to the 0 to 12 volts signal THROUGH a 1k ohm resistor.
    Connect pin 2 to the vehicle ground

    Connect pin 5 to the Stamp +5 volt supply THROUGH a 4.7k ohm resistor
    Also connect pin 5 to your Stamp input pin
    Connect pin 4 to the Stamp ground

    Optional.....connect pin 6 to the Stamp groung THROUGH a 1k ohm resistor.

    The "protection" for your stamp will come from the vehicle ground NOT
    connected to the stamp power supply ground.

    When the coil is not grouned, the Stamp input pin will receive a logic 0
    (close to zero volts)
    When the coil is ground, the Stamp input pin will receive a logic 1, 5 volts.

    METHOD TWO

    Get a 2n2222 or 2n3904 NPN transistor.

    Connect the emitter to ground
    Connect the collector to the Stamp +5 volts supply THROUGH 4.7k ohms
    Connect the collector to the Stamp input pin

    Connect the 0 to 12 volt signal to the base THROUGH 10k ohms.

    This will give you the same inversion......coil not grouned Stamp gets logic
    0 and visa versa.

    The stamp will not be harmed by this setup unless there is some failure with
    the transistor........and that is why the opto isolator mentioned first is a
    safe way in my opinion to interface the coil to the stamp


    ken


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-24 12:56
    Cozz,

    What about using a hall effect sensor or similar? You could also wrap a
    couple loops of wire around a spark plug wire or the + side of the ignition
    coil.

    There are also opto-isolators that can take 12V. This might be best. You
    want to be completely isolated in case of voltage spikes.

    Jonathan

    Original Message
    From: "cozz4ever" <cozz.home@v...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 7:53 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...


    > It's an old Ford. One side of the coil is always grounded. I'll
    > double check the power on the coil. You're maybe right.
    >
    > What conversion is best to convert from 12 volts to TTL?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Cozz
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > > If you are talking about a "standard" automobile ignition coil, the
    > negative
    > > side of the coil is a DC signal with respect to chassis ground.
    > >
    > > Again, assuming a standard vehicle ignition system, it works as
    > follows:
    > >
    > > the coil is grounded to build up current in the coil primary
    > windings, then
    > > the ground on the coil is QUICKLY released, which causes the high
    > voltage that
    > > will jump the spark plug gap and of course, ignite the fuel air
    > mixture in the
    > > combustion chamber.
    > > You ABSOLUTELY need some circuit to interface that negative side of
    > the
    > > ignition coil to the Stamp or you WILL burn out the stamp. The
    > Stamp input pins
    > > want a TTL level signal (basically 0 to 5 volts) and a 12 volt
    > signal will damage
    > > the stamp.
    > > With regards to the voltage you are reading, you mentioned -12
    > volts.....are
    > > seeing minus 12 volts? What kind of engine is this?
    > >
    > > ken
    > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-24 14:06
    I was told that the signal from the hall effect sensor was really
    heard to work with untill the TFI cleans it up. I would like to go to
    the coil and make it a universal setup of sorts.

    Thanks,
    Cozz



    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan Peakall"
    <jpeakall@p...> wrote:
    > Cozz,
    >
    > What about using a hall effect sensor or similar? You could also
    wrap a
    > couple loops of wire around a spark plug wire or the + side of the
    ignition
    > coil.
    >
    > There are also opto-isolators that can take 12V. This might be
    best. You
    > want to be completely isolated in case of voltage spikes.
    >
    > Jonathan
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-24 15:24
    In a message dated 12/24/2003 6:08:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,
    cozz.home@v... writes:
    I was told that the signal from the hall effect sensor was really
    heard to work with untill the TFI cleans it up. I would like to go to
    the coil and make it a universal setup of sorts.

    Thanks,
    Cozz

    Strongly recommend the 4n35....but it is a DIP 6 and not a DIP 8 as I
    incorrectly stated in an earlier post.


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-24 16:15

    SNIP
    > There are also opto-isolators that can take 12V. This might be best. You
    > want to be completely isolated in case of voltage spikes.
    >
    > Jonathan

    Having worked with Ignition coil pick-up for a tach signal I can tell you for
    sure there will be plenty of spikes!
    I have had success using a 4n33 with a 100K resistor in series and a 5v zener
    across the LED, this limits the current and keeps the
    voltage down in both directions. You will also need a cap across the E-C of the
    output and a 100k pull-up to allow time to read the
    spike period.

    KF4HAZ - Lonnie
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-24 18:40
    Better yet.
    Instead of using Zener diodes to clamp transients, use a TRANSZORB.
    These devices are designed to clamp-off transients (very fast and
    high energy levels).
    They are better than Zeners or even MOVs.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-26 16:02
    Thanks for the advice. I do have a set of 4n33's as mentioned in
    another post. I'll give those a try. If anything I'll go to the
    4n35's.

    Thanks,
    Cozz

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    Strongly recommend the 4n35....but it is a DIP 6 and not a DIP 8 as I
    incorrectly stated in an earlier post.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-26 23:20
    This is great information. I'm attempting a similar thing, but....

    I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    quick. So..

    Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach signal
    from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard of
    this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes with
    the pulsin command.

    Thanks for any help.
    Craig
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-26 23:37
    Go to an auto parts store and buy a cheap timing light. IT has a clip on
    inductive pickup and is cheap, cheap, cheap. You should be able to find a
    trigger
    signal in the pc board. Just be careful as the flash unit has around 3kv on it.

    Alan Bradford
    Plasma Technologies

    In a message dated 12/26/2003 6:21:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
    n2oinjection@y... writes:
    This is great information. I'm attempting a similar thing, but....

    I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    quick. So..

    Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach signal
    from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard of
    this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes with
    the pulsin command.

    Thanks for any help.
    Craig


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 02:04
    Craig,

    The automotive industry has inductive clamp on pickups for spark plug wires.
    There are several out there. Here is a link to just one.

    Snap Vantage Mt2400 Power Graphing Meter


    In a message dated 12/26/2003 3:21:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    n2oinjection@y... writes:
    I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    quick. So..

    Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach signal
    from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard of
    this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes with
    the pulsin command.

    Thanks for any help.
    Craig


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 08:38
    Thanks for the quick response guys,

    I do have a clamp from a Sun timing light, but my problem has become
    a little more troublesome the hardware.

    I have a chassis dyno for motorcycles. Getting access to plug wires
    is easy on Harleys and import bikes (prior to 1986), but late model
    sport bikes have so much body work, it can take 30 minutes to get
    the tank, sidepanels and sometimes airbox removed. Then I sometimes
    discover the bikes have a coil in cap set up that only allows me a
    low voltage signal.

    I do have the ability to perform the above , but most customers are
    so cheap, they think that the $30 base dyno run shouldin clude the
    1/2 hour to disassemble their bike and the 1/2 hour to reassemble it
    as well.

    So, since I building my own BS2 based interface for the dyno (to
    include Wideband O2 data logging) I figured I might be able to pick
    up ignition signal with out removing body work. Sometimes I can see
    the plug wires with just a little body work removed, but thre is not
    enough room for the clamp to get in there. Hence the antenna idea.

    I like the idea of disassembling a timing light though. Sounds like
    I would at least get an isolated signal. I'll have to look into
    that if I can't find an antenna or quick 'wire-wrap' method.

    Thanks for the help and ideas.
    Craig


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > Craig,
    >
    > The automotive industry has inductive clamp on pickups for spark
    plug wires.
    > There are several out there. Here is a link to just one.
    >
    > Snap Vantage Mt2400 Power Graphing Meter
    >
    >
    >
    > In a message dated 12/26/2003 3:21:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    > n2oinjection@y... writes:
    > I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    > quick. So..
    >
    > Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach
    signal
    > from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard
    of
    > this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    > one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes
    with
    > the pulsin command.
    >
    > Thanks for any help.
    > Craig
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 10:35
    Craig
    My 2ct. A mike fitted on the exhaust?
    ECO

    Original Message
    From: "Craig" <n2oinjection@y...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:38 AM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...


    > Thanks for the quick response guys,
    >
    > I do have a clamp from a Sun timing light, but my problem has become
    > a little more troublesome the hardware.
    >
    > I have a chassis dyno for motorcycles. Getting access to plug wires
    > is easy on Harleys and import bikes (prior to 1986), but late model
    > sport bikes have so much body work, it can take 30 minutes to get
    > the tank, sidepanels and sometimes airbox removed. Then I sometimes
    > discover the bikes have a coil in cap set up that only allows me a
    > low voltage signal.
    >
    > I do have the ability to perform the above , but most customers are
    > so cheap, they think that the $30 base dyno run shouldin clude the
    > 1/2 hour to disassemble their bike and the 1/2 hour to reassemble it
    > as well.
    >
    > So, since I building my own BS2 based interface for the dyno (to
    > include Wideband O2 data logging) I figured I might be able to pick
    > up ignition signal with out removing body work. Sometimes I can see
    > the plug wires with just a little body work removed, but thre is not
    > enough room for the clamp to get in there. Hence the antenna idea.
    >
    > I like the idea of disassembling a timing light though. Sounds like
    > I would at least get an isolated signal. I'll have to look into
    > that if I can't find an antenna or quick 'wire-wrap' method.
    >
    > Thanks for the help and ideas.
    > Craig
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > > Craig,
    > >
    > > The automotive industry has inductive clamp on pickups for spark
    > plug wires.
    > > There are several out there. Here is a link to just one.
    > >
    > > Snap Vantage Mt2400 Power Graphing Meter
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > In a message dated 12/26/2003 3:21:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    > > n2oinjection@y... writes:
    > > I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    > > quick. So..
    > >
    > > Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach
    > signal
    > > from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard
    > of
    > > this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    > > one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes
    > with
    > > the pulsin command.
    > >
    > > Thanks for any help.
    > > Craig
    > >
    > >
    > > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 12:25
    Also, I remember seeing vibration analysis gear used on industrial air
    compressors. There was a contact mic bolted to the head, and we could see
    rpm, as well as various harmonically related vibrations that could indicate
    bad bearing, etc...

    Perhaps a simple contact "mic" would do the trick.

    Mike Sokol
    www.modernrecording.com
    mikes@m...


    " One should not increase, beyond what is necessary,
    the number of entities required to explain anything"...
    -William of Occam-


    Original Message
    From: "ECO" <ecourt@b...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 5:35 AM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...


    > Craig
    > My 2ct. A mike fitted on the exhaust?
    > ECO
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Craig" <n2oinjection@y...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 9:38 AM
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...
    >
    >
    > > Thanks for the quick response guys,
    > >
    > > I do have a clamp from a Sun timing light, but my problem has become
    > > a little more troublesome the hardware.
    > >
    > > I have a chassis dyno for motorcycles. Getting access to plug wires
    > > is easy on Harleys and import bikes (prior to 1986), but late model
    > > sport bikes have so much body work, it can take 30 minutes to get
    > > the tank, sidepanels and sometimes airbox removed. Then I sometimes
    > > discover the bikes have a coil in cap set up that only allows me a
    > > low voltage signal.
    > >
    > > I do have the ability to perform the above , but most customers are
    > > so cheap, they think that the $30 base dyno run shouldin clude the
    > > 1/2 hour to disassemble their bike and the 1/2 hour to reassemble it
    > > as well.
    > >
    > > So, since I building my own BS2 based interface for the dyno (to
    > > include Wideband O2 data logging) I figured I might be able to pick
    > > up ignition signal with out removing body work. Sometimes I can see
    > > the plug wires with just a little body work removed, but thre is not
    > > enough room for the clamp to get in there. Hence the antenna idea.
    > >
    > > I like the idea of disassembling a timing light though. Sounds like
    > > I would at least get an isolated signal. I'll have to look into
    > > that if I can't find an antenna or quick 'wire-wrap' method.
    > >
    > > Thanks for the help and ideas.
    > > Craig
    > >
    > >
    > > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > > > Craig,
    > > >
    > > > The automotive industry has inductive clamp on pickups for spark
    > > plug wires.
    > > > There are several out there. Here is a link to just one.
    > > >
    > > > Snap Vantage Mt2400 Power Graphing Meter
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > In a message dated 12/26/2003 3:21:19 PM Pacific Standard Time,
    > > > n2oinjection@y... writes:
    > > > I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    > > > quick. So..
    > > >
    > > > Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach
    > > signal
    > > > from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard
    > > of
    > > > this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    > > > one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes
    > > with
    > > > the pulsin command.
    > > >
    > > > Thanks for any help.
    > > > Craig
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 16:02
    Possibly somebody who knows about AM radios can help. A cheap AM radio seems
    to be pretty good at picking up ignition noise, and perhaps it can be hacked
    to suit your needs.


    In a message dated 12/27/2003 12:39:49 AM Pacific Standard Time,
    n2oinjection@y... writes:
    Thanks for the quick response guys,

    I do have a clamp from a Sun timing light, but my problem has become
    a little more troublesome the hardware.

    I have a chassis dyno for motorcycles. Getting access to plug wires
    is easy on Harleys and import bikes (prior to 1986), but late model
    sport bikes have so much body work, it can take 30 minutes to get
    the tank, sidepanels and sometimes airbox removed. Then I sometimes
    discover the bikes have a coil in cap set up that only allows me a
    low voltage signal.

    I do have the ability to perform the above , but most customers are
    so cheap, they think that the $30 base dyno run shouldin clude the
    1/2 hour to disassemble their bike and the 1/2 hour to reassemble it
    as well.

    So, since I building my own BS2 based interface for the dyno (to
    include Wideband O2 data logging) I figured I might be able to pick
    up ignition signal with out removing body work. Sometimes I can see
    the plug wires with just a little body work removed, but thre is not
    enough room for the clamp to get in there. Hence the antenna idea.

    I like the idea of disassembling a timing light though. Sounds like
    I would at least get an isolated signal. I'll have to look into
    that if I can't find an antenna or quick 'wire-wrap' method.

    Thanks for the help and ideas.
    Craig


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 17:31
    Craig,

    Seems to me that if you wrap an insulated wire around the plug wire, & tie
    one end to the motor the other will give you a signal that you can use, The
    more turns the more voltage, so you decide if turns or amplifiation with an op
    amp would suit your needs,

    regards,

    Leroy

    From: "Craig" <n2oinjection@y...>
    Date: 2003/12/26 Fri PM 06:20:20 EST
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...

    This is great information. I'm attempting a similar thing, but....

    I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    quick. So..

    Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach signal
    from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard of
    this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes with
    the pulsin command.

    Thanks for any help.
    Craig



    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/

    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 17:31
    Craig,

    Seems to me that if you wrap an insulated wire around the plug wire, & tie
    one end to the motor the other will give you a signal that you can use, The
    more turns the more voltage, so you decide if turns or amplifiation with an op
    amp would suit your needs,

    regards,

    Leroy

    From: "Craig" <n2oinjection@y...>
    Date: 2003/12/26 Fri PM 06:20:20 EST
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...

    This is great information. I'm attempting a similar thing, but....

    I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    quick. So..

    Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach signal
    from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard of
    this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes with
    the pulsin command.

    Thanks for any help.
    Craig



    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/

    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 17:33
    Craig,

    Seems to me that if you wrap an insulated wire around the plug wire, & tie
    one end to the motor the other will give you a signal that you can use, The
    more turns the more voltage, so you decide if turns or amplifiation with an op
    amp would suit your needs,

    regards,

    Leroy

    From: "Craig" <n2oinjection@y...>
    Date: 2003/12/26 Fri PM 06:20:20 EST
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...

    This is great information. I'm attempting a similar thing, but....

    I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    quick. So..

    Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach signal
    from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard of
    this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes with
    the pulsin command.

    Thanks for any help.
    Craig



    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.


    Yahoo! Groups Links

    To visit your group on the web, go to:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/

    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 19:55
    Mind You,

    HALF a turn around the ignition wire is enough to ignite a small Neon
    bulb.

    If you have a screwdriver with a Neon light in it to detect the live
    wire of 220 Volts is will light as soon as it is placed close to an
    ignition wire.
    It is a nice and cheap tool to find out which sparkplugs in your
    engine are working OK :-).

    Be carefull, this could easily blow up your OpAmp!!

    Regards,

    Klaus


    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, <leroy@f...> wrote:
    > Craig,
    >
    > Seems to me that if you wrap an insulated wire around the plug
    wire, & tie
    > one end to the motor the other will give you a signal that you can
    use, The more turns the more voltage, so you decide if turns or
    amplifiation with an op amp would suit your needs,
    >
    > regards,
    >
    > Leroy
    >
    > From: "Craig" <n2oinjection@y...>
    > Date: 2003/12/26 Fri PM 06:20:20 EST
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...
    >
    > This is great information. I'm attempting a similar thing, but....
    >
    > I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    > quick. So..
    >
    > Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach
    signal
    > from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard
    of
    > this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    > one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes with
    > the pulsin command.
    >
    > Thanks for any help.
    > Craig
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 19:58
    Hmmmm.....

    How about using this neon bulb to trigger a photo-transistor. That would
    seem to bullet-proof, and completely isolated to boot... Stick both in a
    little piece of black PVC and cover the ends with e-tape.

    Mike Sokol
    www.modernrecording.com
    mikes@m...


    " One should not increase, beyond what is necessary,
    the number of entities required to explain anything"...
    -William of Occam-


    Original Message
    From: "klausdejong" <klausdejong@x...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 2:55 PM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...


    > Mind You,
    >
    > HALF a turn around the ignition wire is enough to ignite a small Neon
    > bulb.
    >
    > If you have a screwdriver with a Neon light in it to detect the live
    > wire of 220 Volts is will light as soon as it is placed close to an
    > ignition wire.
    > It is a nice and cheap tool to find out which sparkplugs in your
    > engine are working OK :-).
    >
    > Be carefull, this could easily blow up your OpAmp!!
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Klaus
    >
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, <leroy@f...> wrote:
    > > Craig,
    > >
    > > Seems to me that if you wrap an insulated wire around the plug
    > wire, & tie
    > > one end to the motor the other will give you a signal that you can
    > use, The more turns the more voltage, so you decide if turns or
    > amplifiation with an op amp would suit your needs,
    > >
    > > regards,
    > >
    > > Leroy
    > >
    > > From: "Craig" <n2oinjection@y...>
    > > Date: 2003/12/26 Fri PM 06:20:20 EST
    > > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...
    > >
    > > This is great information. I'm attempting a similar thing, but....
    > >
    > > I need to be able to jump from test engine to test engine really
    > > quick. So..
    > >
    > > Does anyone know where I could find info for getting the tach
    > signal
    > > from an antenna or wire wrapped around the plug wire? I've heard
    > of
    > > this before but have never seen an actual unit in operation or had
    > > one to copy. I figure I'll just count the time between spikes with
    > > the pulsin command.
    > >
    > > Thanks for any help.
    > > Craig
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 20:09
    Why not use the neon bulb and a phototransistor?


    > HALF a turn around the ignition wire is enough to ignite a small Neon
    > bulb.
    >
    > If you have a screwdriver with a Neon light in it to detect the live
    > wire of 220 Volts is will light as soon as it is placed close to an
    > ignition wire.
    > It is a nice and cheap tool to find out which sparkplugs in your
    > engine are working OK :-).
    >
    > Be carefull, this could easily blow up your OpAmp!!
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 20:20
    Dang, you beat me to it.

    The only problem may be that the neon can't flash fast enough -- but you
    may be able to use a photo-resitive cell and measure the relative
    brightness of the neon to get an approximate speed.


    I used this method to build a ringer interface on a telephone about 25
    years ago, long before they had these phone flashers and stuff for the
    hearing impaired.

    > How about using this neon bulb to trigger a photo-transistor. That would
    > seem to bullet-proof, and completely isolated to boot... Stick both in a
    > little piece of black PVC and cover the ends with e-tape.
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-27 20:23
    I thought about the neon trigger speed issue, but seem to remember really
    cheap automotive timing lights that were just a big neon bulb. It would be a
    simple enough test to rig. An o-scope would be the definitive test, but
    certainly a B-stamp could catch the pulses until they ran together from too
    many RPMs. Just keep upping the revs until your counter went stupid and said
    zero RPM.

    Mike Sokol
    www.modernrecording.com
    mikes@m...
    301-739-6842 (Office)
    301-964-5682 (Mobile)

    " One should not increase, beyond what is necessary,
    the number of entities required to explain anything"...
    -William of Occam-


    Original Message
    From: "Bill Boyer" <daweasel@s...>
    To: "Basic Stamp List" <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 3:20 PM
    Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...


    > Dang, you beat me to it.
    >
    > The only problem may be that the neon can't flash fast enough -- but you
    > may be able to use a photo-resitive cell and measure the relative
    > brightness of the neon to get an approximate speed.
    >
    >
    > I used this method to build a ringer interface on a telephone about 25
    > years ago, long before they had these phone flashers and stuff for the
    > hearing impaired.
    >
    > > How about using this neon bulb to trigger a photo-transistor. That would
    > > seem to bullet-proof, and completely isolated to boot... Stick both in a
    > > little piece of black PVC and cover the ends with e-tape.
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Yahoo! Groups Links
    >
    > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    >
    > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-28 00:46
    You might look at this guys products;
    http://www.statorgator.com/
    The r/c heli version outputs a 5V level signal.

    > I do have a clamp from a Sun timing light, but my problem has become a
    > little more troublesome the hardware.
    >
    > I have a chassis dyno for motorcycles. Getting access to plug wires is
    > easy on Harleys and import bikes (prior to 1986), but late model sport
    > bikes have so much body work, it can take 30 minutes to get the tank,
    > sidepanels and sometimes airbox removed. Then I sometimes discover the
    > bikes have a coil in cap set up that only allows me a low voltage
    > signal.
    >



    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-12-28 00:55
    Wow!

    Thanks for all the input guys. Looks like I have few experiments to
    try. Thanks for the help. I'll kep you all posted on my progress.
    I'm sure I'll be back with other BS2 questions when I get further
    along.

    Craig.



    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Sokol" <mike.sokol@m...>
    wrote:
    > I thought about the neon trigger speed issue, but seem to remember
    really
    > cheap automotive timing lights that were just a big neon bulb. It
    would be a
    > simple enough test to rig. An o-scope would be the definitive
    test, but
    > certainly a B-stamp could catch the pulses until they ran together
    from too
    > many RPMs. Just keep upping the revs until your counter went
    stupid and said
    > zero RPM.
    >
    > Mike Sokol
    > www.modernrecording.com
    > mikes@m...
    > 301-739-6842 (Office)
    > 301-964-5682 (Mobile)
    >
    > " One should not increase, beyond what is necessary,
    > the number of entities required to explain anything"...
    > -William of Occam-
    >
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Bill Boyer" <daweasel@s...>
    > To: "Basic Stamp List" <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 3:20 PM
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Reading tachometer signal...
    >
    >
    > > Dang, you beat me to it.
    > >
    > > The only problem may be that the neon can't flash fast enough --
    but you
    > > may be able to use a photo-resitive cell and measure the relative
    > > brightness of the neon to get an approximate speed.
    > >
    > >
    > > I used this method to build a ringer interface on a telephone
    about 25
    > > years ago, long before they had these phone flashers and stuff
    for the
    > > hearing impaired.
    > >
    > > > How about using this neon bulb to trigger a photo-transistor.
    That would
    > > > seem to bullet-proof, and completely isolated to boot... Stick
    both in a
    > > > little piece of black PVC and cover the ends with e-tape.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    Subject and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
    > >
    > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
    > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/basicstamps/
    > >
    > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
Sign In or Register to comment.