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Personalized PCB boards — Parallax Forums

Personalized PCB boards

ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
edited 2003-04-27 18:16 in General Discussion
Hi all,
I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB boards.
I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good soldering
skills I was just confused about what to get and maybe yall would share
some tips if you have 'em.

Thanx
-Mike


[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
«1

Comments

  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-13 23:23
    How complex is your project? Is it worth spending $34 (including shipping)
    to have a professionally made board? Doubles sided, plated-through holes,
    solder mask, silk screen component designation?

    I recently had a board made for a project that had a 16F877, plus 6 other
    ICs, voltage regulator, a half dozen transistors and a bunch or resistors
    and capacitors. I had the board made by Olimex in Bulgaria. It's a nice
    piece of work.

    If you want to make your own, there are a bunch of different ways - a
    GOOGLE search will turn up bunch of sites with a lot of good information.

    Larry

    At 06:02 PM 4/13/2003 -0400, you wrote:
    >Hi all,
    >I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB boards.
    >I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good soldering
    >skills I was just confused about what to get and maybe yall would share
    >some tips if you have 'em.
    >
    >Thanx
    >-Mike
    >
    >
    >[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    >Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

    Larry Bradley
    Orleans (Ottawa), Ontario, CANADA
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-13 23:24
    In a message dated 4/13/2003 3:01:16 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
    laxboy687@e... writes:

    >
    > Hi all,
    > I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB boards.
    > I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good soldering
    > skills I was just confused about what to get and maybe yall would share
    > some tips if you have 'em.
    >
    > Thanx
    > -Mike
    >

    Mike,

    Try <A HREF="www.expresspcb.com">www.expresspcb.com</A>
    You download their easy to use free software, layout a two sided board. There
    are several options on board sizes and cost. They have a standard service,
    three 2.5 by 3.5 double sided board for $65.

    If your board size is bigger, once you finish your layout, you can select an
    option that will calculate board cost. Once you are satisfied, hit a "send"
    button and depending on what service you choose, you will have your boards in
    two to three days.

    I have used this service many times and am happy with the results.......

    Ken


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-13 23:26
    In a message dated 4/13/2003 3:24:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
    lhbradley@i... writes:

    > How complex is your project? Is it worth spending $34 (including shipping)
    > to have a professionally made board? Doubles sided, plated-through holes,
    > solder mask, silk screen component designation?
    >
    > I recently had a board made for a project that had a 16F877, plus 6 other
    > ICs, voltage regulator, a half dozen transistors and a bunch or resistors
    > and capacitors. I had the board made by Olimex in Bulgaria. It's a nice
    > piece of work.
    >
    > If you want to make your own, there are a bunch of different ways - a
    > GOOGLE search will turn up bunch of sites with a lot of good information.
    >
    > Larry

    Larry,

    $34???? Really? sounds too good to be true... I have been using
    expresspcb. Looks like I might need to look into this company....

    Ken


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 01:15
    Yup. Check www.olimex.com


    $21 for single sided board, $26 for double sided, plus $8 shipping.

    Good quality. Reasonable turnaround times.


    At 06:26 PM 4/13/2003 -0400, you wrote:

    >Larry,
    >
    >$34???? Really? sounds too good to be true... I have been using
    >expresspcb. Looks like I might need to look into this company....
    >
    >Ken
    >
    >
    >[noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    >To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    >from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    >Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

    Larry Bradley
    Orleans (Ottawa), Ontario, CANADA
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 01:17
    The difference is that your gerber files must be complete and correct.

    PCB Express doens't care as they use their own software.

    I find it's easier to use PCBExpress for simplicity then to use Eagle
    for it's strenghts. problem is that there are no simple and low cost
    programs that output gerber files.

    Another difference is shipping PCB express has them to you in a few
    days. from Bulgaria, it takes a little longer or the shipping is a
    little more.

    Dave

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > In a message dated 4/13/2003 3:24:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
    > lhbradley@i... writes:
    >
    > > How complex is your project? Is it worth spending $34 (including
    shipping)
    > > to have a professionally made board? Doubles sided, plated-
    through holes,
    > > solder mask, silk screen component designation?
    > >
    > > I recently had a board made for a project that had a 16F877, plus
    6 other
    > > ICs, voltage regulator, a half dozen transistors and a bunch or
    resistors
    > > and capacitors. I had the board made by Olimex in Bulgaria. It's
    a nice
    > > piece of work.
    > >
    > > If you want to make your own, there are a bunch of different
    ways - a
    > > GOOGLE search will turn up bunch of sites with a lot of good
    information.
    > >
    > > Larry
    >
    > Larry,
    >
    > $34???? Really? sounds too good to be true... I have been using
    > expresspcb. Looks like I might need to look into this company....
    >
    > Ken
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 01:52
    Hey thanks all,
    I was actually looking for something I could do at home. I saw some sort
    of kit at radio shack where you layed out the circuit with some stickers
    and then you pour some sort of solvent over the board and you get a PCB.
    Ill look into it a bit more. But ill try this company if it really isn't
    worth getting that kit.
    Thanks again everyone!
    -Mike

    Original Message
    From: Mike Dillon [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=jq_yC28gfFuxK0yA5tuo22pk6e1mvkhLreRyGr1kstJ7CsIt1uHZFg0pOfdCE0ItBztlzWZf9HmmzbBX5Q]laxboy687@e...[/url
    Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 6:03 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards

    Hi all,
    I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB boards.
    I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good soldering
    skills I was just confused about what to get and maybe yall would share
    some tips if you have 'em.

    Thanx
    -Mike


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 02:42
    In a message dated 4/13/2003 5:50:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
    laxboy687@e... writes:

    > Hey thanks all,
    > I was actually looking for something I could do at home. I saw some sort
    > of kit at radio shack where you layed out the circuit with some stickers
    > and then you pour some sort of solvent over the board and you get a PCB.
    > Ill look into it a bit more. But ill try this company if it really isn't
    > worth getting that kit.
    > Thanks again everyone!
    > -Mike
    >

    The "home kit"radio shack thing works for very simple boards and even not so
    simple boards, however, the quality is not that of boards you would get from
    the sources previously posted..

    Ken


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 03:18
    I use this Toner Transfer System with great success:
    http://www.dynaart.com/DTF/A.PCB.html



    Original Message
    From: "Mike Dillon" <laxboy687@e...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 8:52 PM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards


    > Hey thanks all,
    > I was actually looking for something I could do at home. I saw some sort
    > of kit at radio shack where you layed out the circuit with some stickers
    > and then you pour some sort of solvent over the board and you get a PCB.
    > Ill look into it a bit more. But ill try this company if it really isn't
    > worth getting that kit.
    > Thanks again everyone!
    > -Mike
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Mike Dillon [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=zV-ofr9uK4dpAkp4dlYu1HadYFLXtcySbcNwFV5rx9ey8bGEqhZRdgORNIs3bzAE23cM_JMYSerBhH4zyEv89w]laxboy687@e...[/url
    > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 6:03 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards
    >
    > Hi all,
    > I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB boards.
    > I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good soldering
    > skills I was just confused about what to get and maybe yall would share
    > some tips if you have 'em.
    >
    > Thanx
    > -Mike
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 13:40
    For general information:
    Eagle software from www.cadsoftusa.com is available for free non-commercial
    use and the program generates all the gerber files necessary to make a pc
    board.

    Jim

    http://www.geocities.com/jimforkin2003/

    Original Message
    From: Dave Mucha [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=HfMBf6Q_UaPL4t5bQ1_I56qryEYo4oKGwD2S8dZuGVLHBTab5fgCB5aAzMtiN6jbwgQesHagG6c]davemucha@j...[/url
    Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 8:17 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Personalized PCB boards


    The difference is that your gerber files must be complete and correct.

    PCB Express doens't care as they use their own software.

    I find it's easier to use PCBExpress for simplicity then to use Eagle
    for it's strenghts. problem is that there are no simple and low cost
    programs that output gerber files.

    Another difference is shipping PCB express has them to you in a few
    days. from Bulgaria, it takes a little longer or the shipping is a
    little more.

    Dave

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > In a message dated 4/13/2003 3:24:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
    > lhbradley@i... writes:
    >
    > > How complex is your project? Is it worth spending $34 (including
    shipping)
    > > to have a professionally made board? Doubles sided, plated-
    through holes,
    > > solder mask, silk screen component designation?
    > >
    > > I recently had a board made for a project that had a 16F877, plus
    6 other
    > > ICs, voltage regulator, a half dozen transistors and a bunch or
    resistors
    > > and capacitors. I had the board made by Olimex in Bulgaria. It's
    a nice
    > > piece of work.
    > >
    > > If you want to make your own, there are a bunch of different
    ways - a
    > > GOOGLE search will turn up bunch of sites with a lot of good
    information.
    > >
    > > Larry
    >
    > Larry,
    >
    > $34???? Really? sounds too good to be true... I have been using
    > expresspcb. Looks like I might need to look into this company....
    >
    > Ken
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


    To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and
    Body of the message will be ignored.


    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 13:41
    > Hi all,
    > I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB boards.
    > I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good soldering
    > skills I was just confused about what to get and maybe yall would share
    > some tips if you have 'em.

    I recommend making them at home with Kepro parts. I shoot my
    own PCBs as I need them. I have made mostly single-sided and a
    few double-sided PCBs. I don't have plated through holes or a top
    silk, but other than that, the quality is as good as a board house.
    Add to that that I can design, shoot, and etch a 4" by 6" board
    within a few hours for about $5. I use my setup to create PCBs for
    my high altitude balloon program and robots. My students make
    several PCBs a year.

    Paul
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 13:42
    > I was actually looking for something I could do at home. I saw some sort
    > of kit at radio shack where you layed out the circuit with some stickers
    > and then you pour some sort of solvent over the board and you get a PCB.
    > Ill look into it a bit more. But ill try this company if it really isn't
    > worth getting that kit.

    Check out Circuit Cellar for my article on making PCBs at home.
    The quality of the PCBs will run circles around PCBs make with
    rub-on decals.

    Paul
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 15:16
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, <verhap@o...> wrote:
    > > I was actually looking for something I could do at home. I saw
    some sort
    > > of kit at radio shack where you layed out the circuit with some
    stickers
    > > and then you pour some sort of solvent over the board and you get
    a PCB.
    > > Ill look into it a bit more. But ill try this company if it
    really isn't
    > > worth getting that kit.
    >
    > Check out Circuit Cellar for my article on making PCBs at home.
    > The quality of the PCBs will run circles around PCBs make with
    > rub-on decals.
    >
    > Paul


    That calls for a link Paul !
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 15:19
    Mike,

    I use the laser printer toner method with great sucess, and it only costs
    about $50 or less to get it set up. I use a Pyrex baking pan with a lid for
    my etchant and tinning solution, and have a lab type hot plate to put it on.
    I can easily make pretty complex boards up to about 4" * 6". Take the
    trouble to tin, it makes assembly MUCH easier.

    If you go this route, ontact me off list anf I'll be happy to detail my
    procedure and equipment.

    Jonathan

    www.madlabs.info

    Original Message
    From: "Mike Dillon" <laxboy687@e...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 5:52 PM
    Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards


    > Hey thanks all,
    > I was actually looking for something I could do at home. I saw some sort
    > of kit at radio shack where you layed out the circuit with some stickers
    > and then you pour some sort of solvent over the board and you get a PCB.
    > Ill look into it a bit more. But ill try this company if it really isn't
    > worth getting that kit.
    > Thanks again everyone!
    > -Mike
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Mike Dillon [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=xfdv7JhgrTKSzpgBp3j6_f4dnSylHVWSYekGOeIfsQ5TvboMJE32JAnVAz2BI2Uv2wJiFvEl7UFivU4Il-_S6DU]laxboy687@e...[/url
    > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 6:03 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards
    >
    > Hi all,
    > I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB boards.
    > I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good soldering
    > skills I was just confused about what to get and maybe yall would share
    > some tips if you have 'em.
    >
    > Thanx
    > -Mike
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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    >
    >
    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 15:22
    Have a look at http://www.wd5gnr.com/pcb.htm

    Al Williams
    AWC
    * Easy RS-232 Prototyping
    http://www.al-williams.com/awce/rs1.htm



    >
    Original Message
    > From: Jonathan Peakall [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=pQEylrZ7xrZUwD26eiw_FOS1iuL4dsKcLlNzkv4RS0Aq0jhd3es67lX50B39ooX4-xL6xLNXdEgLB6XT3F6Mlw]jpeakall@m...[/url
    > Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:19 AM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards
    >
    >
    > Mike,
    >
    > I use the laser printer toner method with great sucess, and
    > it only costs about $50 or less to get it set up. I use a
    > Pyrex baking pan with a lid for my etchant and tinning
    > solution, and have a lab type hot plate to put it on. I can
    > easily make pretty complex boards up to about 4" * 6". Take
    > the trouble to tin, it makes assembly MUCH easier.
    >
    > If you go this route, ontact me off list anf I'll be happy to
    > detail my procedure and equipment.
    >
    > Jonathan
    >
    > www.madlabs.info
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: "Mike Dillon" <laxboy687@e...>
    > To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 5:52 PM
    > Subject: RE: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards
    >
    >
    > > Hey thanks all,
    > > I was actually looking for something I could do at home. I saw some
    > > sort of kit at radio shack where you layed out the circuit
    > with some
    > > stickers and then you pour some sort of solvent over the
    > board and you
    > > get a PCB. Ill look into it a bit more. But ill try this
    > company if it
    > > really isn't worth getting that kit. Thanks again everyone! -Mike
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: Mike Dillon [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=2S1LcW-wpaGQq-ZiNRqDsad7cT4SXzYzrggTMLMLlxMz1fhNRQM3JV4pRhAzFbe-XliQO0qM3W0dgDgDkgHE]laxboy687@e...[/url
    > > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 6:03 PM
    > > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards
    > >
    > > Hi all,
    > > I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB
    > > boards. I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good
    > > soldering skills I was just confused about what to get and
    > maybe yall
    > > would share some tips if you have 'em.
    > >
    > > Thanx
    > > -Mike
    > >
    > >
    > > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
    > the Subject
    > > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in
    > the Subject
    > > and
    > Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
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    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
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    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 15:22
    I wrote an extensive article on making your own printed circuit boards at
    home using an ink jet printer. It worked in conjunction with the Express PCB
    software. The issue was August 2001 and is still available from Nuts and
    Volts http://www.nutsvolts.com
    -Kerry


    At 08:40 AM 4/14/03 -0400, you wrote:
    >For general information:
    >Eagle software from www.cadsoftusa.com is available for free non-commercial
    >use and the program generates all the gerber files necessary to make a pc
    >board.
    >
    >Jim
    >
    >http://www.geocities.com/jimforkin2003/
    >
    >
    Original Message
    >From: Dave Mucha [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=mlffltG3Ue9UQMPdAObfKIaaDkuDRyMIDigWQZ5dPzabE3q-ieNxezGurZGF0yP0A3QyiWH16gl3D20]davemucha@j...[/url
    >Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 8:17 PM
    >To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    >Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Personalized PCB boards
    >
    >
    >The difference is that your gerber files must be complete and correct.
    >
    >PCB Express doens't care as they use their own software.
    >
    >I find it's easier to use PCBExpress for simplicity then to use Eagle
    >for it's strenghts. problem is that there are no simple and low cost
    >programs that output gerber files.
    >
    >Another difference is shipping PCB express has them to you in a few
    >days. from Bulgaria, it takes a little longer or the shipping is a
    >little more.
    >
    >Dave
    >
    >--- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    >> In a message dated 4/13/2003 3:24:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
    >> lhbradley@i... writes:
    >>
    >> > How complex is your project? Is it worth spending $34 (including
    >shipping)
    >> > to have a professionally made board? Doubles sided, plated-
    >through holes,
    >> > solder mask, silk screen component designation?
    >> >
    >> > I recently had a board made for a project that had a 16F877, plus
    >6 other
    >> > ICs, voltage regulator, a half dozen transistors and a bunch or
    >resistors
    >> > and capacitors. I had the board made by Olimex in Bulgaria. It's
    >a nice
    >> > piece of work.
    >> >
    >> > If you want to make your own, there are a bunch of different
    >ways - a
    >> > GOOGLE search will turn up bunch of sites with a lot of good
    >information.
    >> >
    >> > Larry
    >>
    >> Larry,
    >>
    >> $34???? Really? sounds too good to be true... I have been using
    >> expresspcb. Looks like I might need to look into this company....
    >>
    >> Ken
    >>
    >>
    >> [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 15:23
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Forkin" <jjf@p...> wrote:
    > For general information:
    > Eagle software from www.cadsoftusa.com is available for free non-
    commercial
    > use and the program generates all the gerber files necessary to
    make a pc
    > board.
    >
    > Jim
    >
    > http://www.geocities.com/jimforkin2003/
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Dave Mucha [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:davemucha@j...]
    > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 8:17 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Personalized PCB boards
    >
    >
    > The difference is that your gerber files must be complete and
    correct.
    >
    > PCB Express doens't care as they use their own software.
    >
    > I find it's easier to use PCBExpress for simplicity then to use
    Eagle
    > for it's strenghts. problem is that there are no simple and low
    cost
    > programs that output gerber files.


    I think SIMPLE and LOW COST makes an oxymorn ? Eagle is not simple,
    and the free version, last time I looked has limits of board size.
    Probably not a conecern for the hobbiest, but once you get over about
    3x4 inches you are up against the wall.

    Dave
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 15:35
    It's a January issue, either 2000 or 2001. I'll look it up. the article
    is called "A Class Act", in case someone can find it before me.

    Paul

    > > Check out Circuit Cellar for my article on making PCBs at home.
    > > The quality of the PCBs will run circles around PCBs make with
    > > rub-on decals.
    > >
    > > Paul
    >
    >
    > That calls for a link Paul !
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
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    >
    >
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 20:56
    Hello:

    For simple projects you can get from Radio Shack a PCB that has the same
    hole pattern as their prototyping boards.
    You can get the proto working and then solder the circuit to the PCB or
    you can place the PCB over the prototype board while you are debugging
    then lift the board with the components and solder. I use the former
    method because not all parts will attach to the prototype board with the
    PCB in-between.

    Another way to make a circuit that's permanent is to use stick-on copper
    traces and pads over a plain board that has a 0.1" pattern of holes.

    Yet another way to make a soldered circuit is to use board with a
    pattern of holes on 0.1" centers where each hole has a solder pad. Just
    install parts and solder wires between them as needed.

    Regarding PCBs, I have found that the best you can expect from a single
    sided process is to route a single 0.020 trace between two IC pins that
    are on 0.1" centers. Express PCB can now do 6 mil lines so you can
    easily get two traces between adjacent pins and maybe even 3, but I have
    not tried this new narrow line.

    Have Fun,

    Brooke
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-14 22:33
    Thanks everyone,
    I got exactly what I needed, I think ill try the laser printer/toner
    method, with Viewpoint 8.2. I got it off the ExpressPCB website and will
    try that out.
    Thanks again, some great info!

    -Mike

    Original Message
    From: Mike Dillon [noparse]/noparse]mailto:[url=http://forums.parallaxinc.com/group/basicstamps/post?postID=Zlxw3oGGL2C1xXswYJnJyJ4ywXEZTnGkdpoAqJMEFof-bMcsdDWTXYIaURIwn60CmpIiysVkfbQDH-xq3a2K]laxboy687@e...[/url
    Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 6:03 PM
    To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards

    Hi all,
    I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB boards.
    I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good soldering
    skills I was just confused about what to get and maybe yall would share
    some tips if you have 'em.

    Thanx
    -Mike


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 15:11
    I've tried the toner transfer method too..lousy results. Out of 20
    tries I got maybe two boards and they still had to be inked in with a
    sharpie in places. The paper package warns about 'finicky' results
    with a narrow window of success. And yes it was the first two boards
    that worked. That figures. The toner washes off the boards with MEK.
    Now we're using Eagle Cad to a laser printed transparency to
    presensitized boards with perfect results. The toner washes off the
    transparency too btw. So they are reusable.

    But hey good luck. I hope your success is better than mine.

    Paul

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dillon" <laxboy687@e...>
    wrote:
    > Thanks everyone,
    > I got exactly what I needed, I think ill try the laser printer/toner
    > method, with Viewpoint 8.2. I got it off the ExpressPCB website and
    will
    > try that out.
    > Thanks again, some great info!
    >
    > -Mike
    >
    >
    Original Message
    > From: Mike Dillon [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:laxboy687@e...]
    > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 6:03 PM
    > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards
    >
    > Hi all,
    > I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB
    boards.
    > I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good soldering
    > skills I was just confused about what to get and maybe yall would
    share
    > some tips if you have 'em.
    >
    > Thanx
    > -Mike
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    Subject
    > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 15:30
    In a message dated 4/15/2003 7:25:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
    prcoy@y... writes:

    > I've tried the toner transfer method too..lousy results. Out of 20
    > tries I got maybe two boards and they still had to be inked in with a
    > sharpie in places. The paper package warns about 'finicky' results
    > with a narrow window of success. And yes it was the first two boards
    > that worked. That figures. The toner washes off the boards with MEK.
    > Now we're using Eagle Cad to a laser printed transparency to
    > presensitized boards with perfect results. The toner washes off the
    > transparency too btw. So they are reusable.

    Is what you speak of the same as an Iron on transfer? I have had good
    results with the iron on transfer. With a laser printer, you print you layout
    onto a special paper. Then iron the paper onto a clean copper board, peel the
    transfer off the board and etch.

    What is everybody doing for drilling the holes for DIP packages? I can never
    seem to get all the holes straight which makes installation of the IC
    difficult at times.



    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 16:12
    Paul, what color was the transfer paper you used?
    the same happened to me with a plastic blue sheet, until I found the paper based
    white sheet from DynaArt Designs and used their Superfuser to iron the toner.
    The tricky part is trying to transfer the toner with an iron, you have to test a
    lot to get it right. I paid $300 for the Superfuser, there is a better
    substitute for $150 see:
    http://www.dynaart.com/DTF/E.DTF/E.DTF2.html


    Original Message
    From: "Paul" <prcoy@y...>
    To: <basicstamps@yahoogroups.com>
    Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:11 AM
    Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Re: Personalized PCB boards


    > I've tried the toner transfer method too..lousy results. Out of 20
    > tries I got maybe two boards and they still had to be inked in with a
    > sharpie in places. The paper package warns about 'finicky' results
    > with a narrow window of success. And yes it was the first two boards
    > that worked. That figures. The toner washes off the boards with MEK.
    > Now we're using Eagle Cad to a laser printed transparency to
    > presensitized boards with perfect results. The toner washes off the
    > transparency too btw. So they are reusable.
    >
    > But hey good luck. I hope your success is better than mine.
    >
    > Paul
    >
    > --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Dillon" <laxboy687@e...>
    > wrote:
    > > Thanks everyone,
    > > I got exactly what I needed, I think ill try the laser printer/toner
    > > method, with Viewpoint 8.2. I got it off the ExpressPCB website and
    > will
    > > try that out.
    > > Thanks again, some great info!
    > >
    > > -Mike
    > >
    > >
    Original Message
    > > From: Mike Dillon [noparse][[/noparse]mailto:laxboy687@e...]
    > > Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2003 6:03 PM
    > > To: basicstamps@yahoogroups.com
    > > Subject: [noparse][[/noparse]basicstamps] Personalized PCB boards
    > >
    > > Hi all,
    > > I just wanted to know what was the best way to make your own PCB
    > boards.
    > > I need my project to be permanent, and I have pretty good soldering
    > > skills I was just confused about what to get and maybe yall would
    > share
    > > some tips if you have 'em.
    > >
    > > Thanx
    > > -Mike
    > >
    > >
    > > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    > >
    > >
    > > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the
    > Subject
    > > and Body of the message will be ignored.
    > >
    > >
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    > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 16:22
    I have had pretty good success with the "iron on" blue colored special paper
    using a laser jet printer. One trick
    is to wait until the pc board cools down to room temp before peeling off the
    blue paper.
    As for drilling the holes for the DIP packages. I used a cad program for the
    art work.
    For the pads for each pin of the DIP, I used a donut with very small hole in the
    center. This helps the drill bit
    get centered when you start to drill.

    Fred

    smartdim@a... wrote:

    > In a message dated 4/15/2003 7:25:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
    > prcoy@y... writes:
    >
    > > I've tried the toner transfer method too..lousy results. Out of 20
    > > tries I got maybe two boards and they still had to be inked in with a
    > > sharpie in places. The paper package warns about 'finicky' results
    > > with a narrow window of success. And yes it was the first two boards
    > > that worked. That figures. The toner washes off the boards with MEK.
    > > Now we're using Eagle Cad to a laser printed transparency to
    > > presensitized boards with perfect results. The toner washes off the
    > > transparency too btw. So they are reusable.
    >
    > Is what you speak of the same as an Iron on transfer? I have had good
    > results with the iron on transfer. With a laser printer, you print you layout
    > onto a special paper. Then iron the paper onto a clean copper board, peel the
    > transfer off the board and etch.
    >
    > What is everybody doing for drilling the holes for DIP packages? I can never
    > seem to get all the holes straight which makes installation of the IC
    > difficult at times.
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed. Text in the Subject and Body
    of the message will be ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 16:37
    Here are a couple links I have been meaning to try but haven't.

    http://www.fullnet.com/u/tomg/gooteepc.htm
    http://www.beamrobotics.com/library/techniques/buildpcb_trnsfr.html
    http://www.rwc.yertiz.com/pcb.htm

    I have tried using the release paper from a large 'sticker/label' run thru
    a copier (link #3), but it was hard not to smear the design. I use Eagle
    software. I am building a small CNC pcb mill. It has been very time
    consuming but fun and educational!

    http://www.hobbycnc.com/
    http://www.crankorgan.com/brute.htm

    Dan
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 16:38
    > What is everybody doing for drilling the holes for DIP packages? I can never
    > seem to get all the holes straight which makes installation of the IC
    > difficult at times.

    I don't have a trick here other than to drill carefully (tough to do
    when you have so many of them).

    Paul
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 17:50
    For simple, 1 layer boards, how about putting the
    components directly on top of the etched copper? The
    traces are drawn in the normal sense instead of
    inverted so you don't have to be backwards to start
    with. The ICs are deadbugged and soldered directly to
    the copper as are the related discrete components.
    Troubleshooting is easy as you can follow the copper
    traces between parts.

    This is something that I have done to save on drilling
    and for low run prototyping.

    --- smartdim@a... wrote:
    > In a message dated 4/15/2003 7:25:15 AM Pacific
    > Daylight Time,
    > prcoy@y... writes:
    >
    > > I've tried the toner transfer method too..lousy
    > results. Out of 20
    > > tries I got maybe two boards and they still had to
    > be inked in with a
    > > sharpie in places. The paper package warns about
    > 'finicky' results
    > > with a narrow window of success. And yes it was
    > the first two boards
    > > that worked. That figures. The toner washes off
    > the boards with MEK.
    > > Now we're using Eagle Cad to a laser printed
    > transparency to
    > > presensitized boards with perfect results. The
    > toner washes off the
    > > transparency too btw. So they are reusable.
    >
    > Is what you speak of the same as an Iron on
    > transfer? I have had good
    > results with the iron on transfer. With a laser
    > printer, you print you layout
    > onto a special paper. Then iron the paper onto a
    > clean copper board, peel the
    > transfer off the board and etch.
    >
    > What is everybody doing for drilling the holes for
    > DIP packages? I can never
    > seem to get all the holes straight which makes
    > installation of the IC
    > difficult at times.
    >
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been
    > removed]
    >
    >
    > To UNSUBSCRIBE, just send mail to:
    > basicstamps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
    > from the same email address that you subscribed.
    > Text in the Subject and Body of the message will be
    > ignored.
    >
    >
    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
    >
    >


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  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 17:58
    In a message dated 4/15/2003 9:52:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
    kc6pob@y... writes:

    > The ICs are deadbugged and soldered directly to
    > the copper as are the related discrete components.
    >

    Deadbugged???

    Would I be correct to assume this means you bend the leads of your components
    and turn them into surface mounts?


    [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 18:22
    Why yes, that's what I assumed.

    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > In a message dated 4/15/2003 9:52:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
    > kc6pob@y... writes:
    >
    > > The ICs are deadbugged and soldered directly to
    > > the copper as are the related discrete components.
    > >
    >
    > Deadbugged???
    >
    > Would I be correct to assume this means you bend the leads of your
    components
    > and turn them into surface mounts?
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 19:21
    These are the Dynrt sheets. not the peel off kind.

    Two solutions to drilling, #1 clamp a perf board (with .1 holes) to
    use as a guide and use #60 (.040") carbide drills (not "high speed"
    type) #2, We have a Dremel drill press bolted to a small 8"x11" X-Y
    table we got from Ebay. altogether came to around $100 but makes
    perfect .1 spaced holes or even .01 if you want to get picky. We plan
    on adding some stepper motors to it later to make a router/drill out
    of it.

    Paul
    --- In basicstamps@yahoogroups.com, smartdim@a... wrote:
    > In a message dated 4/15/2003 7:25:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
    > prcoy@y... writes:
    >
    > > I've tried the toner transfer method too..lousy results. Out of
    20
    > > tries I got maybe two boards and they still had to be inked in
    with a
    > > sharpie in places. The paper package warns about 'finicky'
    results
    > > with a narrow window of success. And yes it was the first two
    boards
    > > that worked. That figures. The toner washes off the boards with
    MEK.
    > > Now we're using Eagle Cad to a laser printed transparency to
    > > presensitized boards with perfect results. The toner washes off
    the
    > > transparency too btw. So they are reusable.
    >
    > Is what you speak of the same as an Iron on transfer? I have had
    good
    > results with the iron on transfer. With a laser printer, you print
    you layout
    > onto a special paper. Then iron the paper onto a clean copper
    board, peel the
    > transfer off the board and etch.
    >
    > What is everybody doing for drilling the holes for DIP packages? I
    can never
    > seem to get all the holes straight which makes installation of the
    IC
    > difficult at times.
    >
    >
    >
    > [noparse][[/noparse]Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  • ArchiverArchiver Posts: 46,084
    edited 2003-04-15 19:26
    I haven't heard that term in years!

    It used to be used in the context of having to add an IC to a PC board
    after it had been built. You glued the IC on the board (or on top of
    another IC) upside down (with the legs pointing up, like a DEAD BUG!), then
    wired it into the circuit. The UPSIDE DOWN is necessary to call it
    "deadbug" - if you do it right side up, to copper pads, the bug ain't dead!

    Larry


    At 12:58 PM 4/15/2003 -0400, you wrote:
    >In a message dated 4/15/2003 9:52:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
    >kc6pob@y... writes:
    >
    > > The ICs are deadbugged and soldered directly to
    > > the copper as are the related discrete components.
    > >
    >
    >Deadbugged???
    >
    >Would I be correct to assume this means you bend the leads of your components
    >and turn them into surface mounts?
    >

    Larry Bradley
    Orleans (Ottawa), Ontario, CANADA
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