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FlameTube

David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
edited 2016-08-13 19:11 in Propeller 1
«13

Comments

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Wow, I had the idea to make such an electronic candle as a teenager back in the 1970's!

    Hold your lighter or match nearby and it would turn on. Blow on it and it would turn off. With a bit of flickering whilst it's on. All done with a couple of 555 timer chips and sensors I imagined.

    Didn't figure on the phone app mind you.


  • I'm tempted to sponsor the project but $65 shipped to the USA is a bit steep for my gizmo budget.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Don't do it.

    Might be fun for five minutes as a Christmas dinner table ornament. Then it will go in the junk draw.

    Besides, if you really want one isn't it a challenge to make your own?
  • Heater. wrote: »
    Don't do it.

    Might be fun for five minutes as a Christmas dinner table ornament. Then it will go in the junk draw.

    Besides, if you really want one isn't it a challenge to make your own?
    Yeah, I suppose. However, I'd kind of like to support anyone who is using a Propeller in a product and I'm also not that good at assembling display-quality items that look good enough to be seen by non-techno-geeks.

  • Propeller? They refer to "8-core processor" and make this specific comment: "Assembler and easy to use CPU-specific interpreted language." Sure sounds like a Propeller.
  • JonnyMac wrote: »
    Propeller? They refer to "8-core processor" and make this specific comment: "Assembler and easy to use CPU-specific interpreted language." Sure sounds like a Propeller.
    Ken tweeted something about the project so I assume it uses a Propeller. There is also an indication that an SDK will be provided which suggests you can download your own code. Of course, with a Propeller, it would be hard to prevent that even if you wanted to. Anyway, the glass envelope looks cool and I suspect you could do more with the LED matrix than just emulate a flame.

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Specifically:

    "FlameTube CPU supports C/C++, Assembler and easy to use CPU-specific interpreted language."

    Not conclusive though. Why can't they just come out and say it. What processor are they using?

  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2016-08-14 10:30
    In Ken's Tweet, he specifically mentions the Propeller Chip:


  • It probaly would make a great Christmas tree decoration other than that I don,t see much use for it. Good job on the coding and sensors to make it all work. Duanedeg had a quite impressive led matrix display set up.
  • Oh I didn't even see David's comment about Christmas tree . I guess great minds think alike
  • It's funny how the LED matrix is always facing around the right way but I guess it would look kinda lame from the side or from behind ;) Nothing in the perspectives give the impression that it is cylindrical and all the poses would have people blowing on the "dark side" of the candle (unless it is double-sided). So wow, it only took 4 people 3 years to develop an RGB matrix!
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    The video shows that the LED matrix is definitely flat.

    It also shows some hacking going on in Python. How do they get Python running on the Prop.

    I do like Alexey's promotion of the Propeller : "And the best thing is that's easy, and you don't need to use interrupts!"

    But whoa, that 67 euro for backing it is 25% off the expected retail price, that would make it 89 euro. And that appears to be without the " FlameTube IoT Battery" which you need to communicate with the thing. I don't see it flying at that price.
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2016-08-14 09:27
    It's funny how the LED matrix is always facing around the right way but I guess it would look kinda lame from the side or from behind ;) Nothing in the perspectives give the impression that it is cylindrical and all the poses would have people blowing on the "dark side" of the candle (unless it is double-sided). So wow, it only took 4 people 3 years to develop an RGB matrix!
    I wondered whether the LED matrix was double sided and that was part of why it was so expensive although the ad certainly doesn't say that. Is Alexey on the forum? What is his handle?

    Edit: Looks like it is double sided. It says "LIGHTING SOURCE / DISPLAY: dual-sided matrix of 192 warm-white LEDs, 256 brightness levels of each."

    However, I also notice that the glass tube is actually plastic. Oh well...


  • Heater. wrote: »
    TIt also shows some hacking going on in Python. How do they get Python running on the Prop.
    Maybe Python is running on the server side? Seems like they're trying to say it can connect to the internet.

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    As far as I can tell it needs the "FlameTube IoT Battery" to get connection. Not included in the price.

  • David Betz wrote: »
    It's funny how the LED matrix is always facing around the right way but I guess it would look kinda lame from the side or from behind ;) Nothing in the perspectives give the impression that it is cylindrical and all the poses would have people blowing on the "dark side" of the candle (unless it is double-sided). So wow, it only took 4 people 3 years to develop an RGB matrix!
    I wondered whether the LED matrix was double sided and that was part of why it was so expensive although the ad certainly doesn't say that. Is Alexey on the forum? What is his handle?


    Looks like Alexey just signed up as a new member. "FlameTube"
  • FlameTubeFlameTube Posts: 35
    edited 2016-08-14 10:46
    Hey guys!
    I'm Alexey Boychenko, the creator of FlameTube and the project owner. I'm very happy to meet you!

    Here are answers to your questions:

    1. Yes, FlameTube is based on P8X32A.
    2. The LED matrix is dual-sided.
    3. The device contain the Prop, 3-axis accelerometer, two digital mics with wind cameras, and quite expensive 192 lighting-class warm-white LEDs.
    4. Currently, manufacturing cost is enough high. 42 euro is the price for first few units, sponsored by me.
    5. Yes, in real life glass-like bulb looks great, and the flame looks and reacts very natural.
    6. Yes, it took 3 years. First engineering prototype (incl. simple software prototype) was ready within 2 or 3 weeks, all other time was spent to huge amount of work to convert the idea to real-life premium-class consumer product. I had to solve uncountable amount of problems to do that.
    7. The worldwide delivery is quite expensive, but for those, who live in the USA, I can create multiple-unit pack and send to Parallax. It might be cheaper. For example, at this time, it's possible to order Family Pack (3 sets together).

    Dear developers and hobbyists! I would be very happy to collaborate with you in creation of great apps and accessories. I believe, that together we could make very cool products.

    I have an idea to make a special perk for you - FlameTube Developer Kit. It will contain the following:

    - FlameTube;
    - developer Board with USB3 connector for FlameTube, FTDI chip, pins, connected to all FlameTube I/Os, and free space for maketing;
    - instructions.

    Let's calculate, how many people would like to get the kit.

    Please write your ideas and suggestions here.
    If you would like to join FlameTube DevTeam, please drop me a line!
  • FlameTubeFlameTube Posts: 35
    edited 2016-08-14 10:41
    First, what we need to implement consumer apps, is a good OS. Some time ago I started to write my own, but didn't finished... Maybe it would be good to take one of Prop OSes, developed by you, and add all necessary FlameTube-related functions. What do you think?

    Kind regards, Alexey
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2016-08-14 10:53
    FlameTube wrote: »
    First, what we need to implement consumer apps, is a good OS. Some time ago I started to write my own, but didn't finished... Maybe it would be good to take one of Prop OSes, developed by you, and add all necessary FlameTube-related functions. What do you think?

    Kind regards, Alexey
    Cluso99 has an OS you might be able to use. I think Dave Hein does as well.

  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    Hi FlameTube,

    Interesting. I must admit it looks pretty cool.

    You have no mention of accelerometer, mics, propeller or much technical info on the campaign page.

    Also it's not clear what communications ability comes without the "FlameTube IoT Battery"

    Perhaps more information like that, up front, on the campaign page would get things moving faster.

    I've never seen the point of an OS on the Propeller. Just write your code and load the Prop. As you said it's easy because there are no interrupts or tasks to manage.

    BUT, this implies that the user can pull ready made objects into their project very easily. What it needs is a "package manager". Like npm for node.js.

    Imagine a web based IDE. When I start my project I could search for useful objects with it. Hit the "import" button and boom I have a serial port driver or whatever available in my code.

    I imagine something like the Espruino web IDE: http://www.espruino.com/Web+IDE

    We have already demonstrated that it is quite doable to compile Spin in the browser using the open source Spin compiler transcribed to Javascript.
  • FlameTube wrote: »
    5. Yes, in real life glass-like bulb looks great, and the flame looks and reacts very natural.

    So the tube is made of glass? I thought I read something in the description that said it was "optical-grade polycarbonate".
  • FlameTubeFlameTube Posts: 35
    edited 2016-08-14 11:22
    David Betz wrote: »
    FlameTube wrote: »
    5. Yes, in real life glass-like bulb looks great, and the flame looks and reacts very natural.

    So the tube is made of glass? I thought I read something in the description that said it was "optical-grade polycarbonate".

    Glass-like means that it looks like a glass. It's optical-grade policarbonate that looks like a glass.
    But in comparison to glass, it's safe. I used glass in first prototypes, and the PC is much better.
  • FlameTubeFlameTube Posts: 35
    edited 2016-08-14 12:00
    Heater. wrote: »
    Hi FlameTube,

    Interesting. I must admit it looks pretty cool.

    You have no mention of accelerometer, mics, propeller or much technical info on the campaign page.

    Also it's not clear what communications ability comes without the "FlameTube IoT Battery"

    Perhaps more information like that, up front, on the campaign page would get things moving faster.

    I've never seen the point of an OS on the Propeller. Just write your code and load the Prop. As you said it's easy because there are no interrupts or tasks to manage.

    BUT, this implies that the user can pull ready made objects into their project very easily. What it needs is a "package manager". Like npm for node.js.

    Imagine a web based IDE. When I start my project I could search for useful objects with it. Hit the "import" button and boom I have a serial port driver or whatever available in my code.

    I imagine something like the Espruino web IDE: http://www.espruino.com/Web+IDE

    We have already demonstrated that it is quite doable to compile Spin in the browser using the open source Spin compiler transcribed to Javascript.

    1. The technical info presents on infographics at the bottom of the campaign page, above FAQ.
    2. IoT battery contains ARM SoC with Wi-Fi and Bluetooth capabilities. So, with appropriate software support, it's possible to connect it to a smartphone (for example, as a notification point), to the internet, install apps from the web or a smartphone, to use FlameTube as a user interface to control networked devices, etc.
    3. Normal user of consumer electronics is not a programmer. He don't use any IDE. If you want to sale your apps to millions of normal users, you have to provide an easy way of the installation, like Apple App Store. We need OS to provide easy to use APIs for programmers and let users to install apps in one click. We have to keep compatibility of apps even in case of hardware changes, so it's not possible to let application developers to work with the hardware directly. Any FlameTube app should work on any FlameTube model.

    Kind regards, Alexey


  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2016-08-14 12:18
    FlameTube wrote: »
    Hey guys!
    I'm Alexey Boychenko, the creator of FlameTube and the project owner. I'm very happy to meet you!

    Here are answers to your questions:

    1. Yes, FlameTube is based on P8X32A.
    2. The LED matrix is dual-sided.
    3. The device contain the Prop, 3-axis accelerometer, two digital mics with wind cameras, and quite expensive 192 lighting-class warm-white LEDs.
    4. Currently, manufacturing cost is enough high. 42 euro is the price for first few units, sponsored by me.
    5. Yes, in real life glass-like bulb looks great, and the flame looks and reacts very natural.
    6. Yes, it took 3 years. First engineering prototype (incl. simple software prototype) was ready within 2 or 3 weeks, all other time was spent to huge amount of work to convert the idea to real-life premium-class consumer product. I had to solve uncountable amount of problems to do that.
    7. The worldwide delivery is quite expensive, but for those, who live in the USA, I can create multiple-unit pack and send to Parallax. It might be cheaper. For example, at this time, it's possible to order Family Pack (3 sets together).

    Dear developers and hobbyists! I would be very happy to collaborate with you in creation of great apps and accessories. I believe, that together we could make very cool products.

    I have an idea to make a special perk for you - FlameTube Developer Kit. It will contain the following:

    - FlameTube;
    - developer Board with USB3 connector for FlameTube, FTDI chip, pins, connected to all FlameTube I/Os, and free space for maketing;
    - instructions.

    Let's calculate, how many people would like to get the kit.

    Please write your ideas and suggestions here.
    If you would like to join FlameTube DevTeam, please drop me a line!
    Ideas? How about electronic RPG dice? I guess that could be done with the LED matrix to display the rsult of the roll and the accelerometer could allow shaking to randomize.

  • Because of poor reception, just got to see the video this morning. Very realistic flame depiction, and who wouldn't like its design. I wonder if Corning Gorilla Glass can be formed in anything but flat. This has got to be a win, win, win.The Propeller + LEDs + User interaction looks like it will be a popular product. Any mention of battery life?
  • MikeDYur wrote: »
    Because of poor reception, just got to see the video this morning. Very realistic flame depiction, and who wouldn't like its design. I wonder if Corning Gorilla Glass can be formed in anything but flat. This has got to be a win, win, win.The Propeller + LEDs + User interaction looks like it will be a popular product. Any mention of battery life?

    It's possible to use Gorilla Glass, but in this case, it's extremely expensive. Now, the PC is better choice.

    The lamp is quite small, and there is no space for a battery inside. It's good to use an ordinary USB powerbank in the form of cylinder, or FlameTube PowerBank, or FlameTube IoT Battery. With a small 2500 mAh powerbank, it works about 24 hours in "flame" mode, or about a month in sleep mode (with active sensors) from a single charge.

    You are welcome! Order your FlameTube on Indiegogo!

    Kind regards, Alexey
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    FlameTube,

    Ah yes, there is a bit of technical description, way down the bottom.

    Am I right in saying the "IoT battery" is not part of the basic offering?

    I appreciate your point that "Any FlameTube app should work on any FlameTube model"

    But now I'm confused again. Where are these apps running? On the Propeller in the FlameTube or on the ARM SoC.

    I'm guessing the latter. In which case we need the "IoT battery" and it's ARM SoC right.

    Or am I hopelessly confused.
  • @FlameTube, is there any hi-res pictures of your product in operation, that you can share with the forum?
  • David BetzDavid Betz Posts: 14,516
    edited 2016-08-14 15:40
    One thing that bothers me is the idea of investing in IndiGoGo that charges your card even if the project doesn't achieve even a minimal level of funding. Will I get anything from my investment if you raise significantly less than your first goal?

    Edit: Actually, it looks like I invested a hackaday.io project with Antti Lukats for his Soft Propeller board and never received anything in return. However, IndiGoGo is a similar model.
  • MJBMJB Posts: 1,235
    FlameTube wrote: »
    First, what we need to implement consumer apps, is a good OS. Some time ago I started to write my own, but didn't finished... Maybe it would be good to take one of Prop OSes, developed by you, and add all necessary FlameTube-related functions. What do you think?

    Kind regards, Alexey
    have a look at Tachyon ...
    and send a free one to play to @Peter Jakacki ;-)
    he will immediately load Tachyon Forth OS onto it ...
    with his IoT5500 LAN connection is possible ...

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