As far as I remember I only have the first and third updates you listed hidden. The first is the one that checks for compatibility for Windows 10, IIRC and the third one puts the little nag bubble in your system tray and IIRC also streams the update data into a cache for when you finally submit to the "upgrade". I don't recognize the other numbers off the top of my head, but I don't believe I have any of them hidden, so they're probably installed.
As for shutting down improperly, that hasn't happened on the affected machines. The one that finally got updates has had that happen before because of lock-ups where I was forced to hit the reset button, but as I said, that is my main PC and it does take several minutes to get updates, but it does get them. As I also mentioned...it never shows that it is downloading them. Progress does't update until it actually starts installing them.
This may sound paranoid, but I can't wonder if the fact that I keep hiding the two updates that have to do with nagging you into Windows 10 are partially what's causing my problem. I guess what I mean by the paranoid part is if Microsoft is making ti so that by not having these updates installed the system is not stable. Seems weird, but there is a rash of people who have been dismissing those updates and seemingly having the same issues I am.
Since the majority of my computers are Windows 7, that concerns me greatly. I also see that I am not the only one with a Windows 7 VM who can't get the updates to be detected, but since it is a clean install and had at least one set of updates I am hesitant to remove the VM and start over because I could end up right back in the same place.
Clone the VM and apply updates from the Update Catalog to it. Things go wrong, re-instantiate the duplicate and work from there.
So you disable updates on windows to get rid of that nag screen, using manual registry entries (even if done with some patch program) and then complain that you have problems with updates?
Setting Win7 to check for updates but not install them is internal Win7 functionality. The register changes are to block operating system UPGRADES, not routine updates. If MS wasn't trying to surreptitiously stuff the Win10 installer onto everyone's computers (see Chip's original post), no one would be messing with the registry. As for updates, MS is notorious for pushing out updates that cause all manner of problems, so lots of people, including me, wait for awhile to see if they get pulled or changed by MS before allowing them to install. A lot of the non-security updates are irrelevant to the majority of users anyway.
The problem Chris is having is, when trying to let the updates install (which should work, don't you think?), it can take hours to actually get them off the server. Sometimes it simply doesn't work at all. Further, many people who install everything still have the problem. Is that a user issue?
Finally, I have a couple of machines running Win10. You can't disable updates, or even delay them, and when Win10 wants to download updates it eats pretty much the full bandwidth of your internet connection until it's done. As far as I'm aware there's nothing you can do to stop it except shut the computer down. IMO, that's utterly ridiculous.
It isn't that we object to the washing, it's that the washing is more like waterboarding.
I still haven't heard if going to the update catalog and manually downloading and installing updates works.
Re: Win10- Pro lets you defer updates; Home does not.
Also, WRT bandwidth, I'm on a 100/100 FIOS connection and participating in the insider program and have at several times had several computers downloading new builds, 2 towers and 2 tablets and sometimes a laptop or two thrown in, while I've been browsing the 'net on one of them, And done this while my wife watches Netflix on the Roku upstairs and my kid is watching Netflix on the Roku downstairs, both connected to HD TV's and configured for HD content, with no issues other than the computers' update downloads throttle back a bit. Maybe it has something to do with the router QoS being configured properly?
I was linked to two individual updates and downloaded them. However, when I ran them the usual notification came up asking if I wanted to allow changes to the machine, which I accepted, but then it said, "Checking for updates" and sat there, even though it was a stand-alone installer.
The stand-alone windows update application does the same thing. It can't find any updates...just says, "checking..." forever. This machine has no infections, no malware and the only software installed is Chrome, Office and Security Essentials, which is up to date. Oh, and things used to work just fine. Just suddenly all the machines seemed to have issues with updates at some point.
I still haven't heard if going to the update catalog and manually downloading and installing updates works.
Re: Win10- Pro lets you defer updates; Home does not.
Also, WRT bandwidth, I'm on a 100/100 FIOS connection and participating in the insider program and have at several times had several computers downloading new builds, 2 towers and 2 tablets and sometimes a laptop or two thrown in, while I've been browsing the 'net on one of them, And done this while my wife watches Netflix on the Roku upstairs and my kid is watching Netflix on the Roku downstairs, both connected to HD TV's and configured for HD content, with no issues other than the computers' update downloads throttle back a bit. Maybe it has something to do with the router QoS being configured properly?
Chris mentioned problems with direct download. Once the install started, it would start a search for installed updates from which it would not return.
Regarding bandwidth, I'll stand corrected about a 100/100 FIOS connection. My DSL is, umm, dog slow at best so maybe I shouldn't have claimed it would consume "your internet connection", instead just saying it certainly consumes MY internet connection. I live in a rural area and FIOS is not an option so perhaps my mindset is a bit skewed. Thanks for pointing out the difference, except that it makes me jealous.
With regard to deferring updates, even the lowliest version of an OS should recognize that at times, when the user boots up a computer he/she has something that they really need to complete, and they should NOT have to wait while the operating system updates itself. It would be fine for it to check for updates, and even require timely installation, as long as the user has the option to say "not now". Generally, I boot up a computer so that I can use it, not so Microsoft can use it, and if I have to leave it run when I'm done to get an update installed, I could live with that but the user gets priority. And one should not need a Pro version for that. IMO the only reason the Pro version allows it is that MS knows Win10 would be DOA in a corporate environment without it.
That's a little weird that it would go off checking for updates when using an msu package... and the WU troubleshooter doesn't fix things.
A little searching provides the following as a possible work-around:
1) Run msconfig.exe as administrator.
2) Under Services, deselect Windows Module Installer. Apply and reboot.
3) Windows Update now runs. Download and install any updates.
However, other software updates and installations may not run anymore. Therefore:
4) Leave Windows Update set NOT to check for updates automatically.
5) Run msconfig.exe again and reselect Windows Module Installer. Apply and reboot.
6) Set yourself a reminder to run Windows Update periodically by following these same steps.
*edit- Out of curiosity, have you ran system file checker in an elevated command prompt?
sfc /scannow
... or tried an in-place upgrade?
Don't know about Chris' situation, but in my case the two updates that were pointed out in the InfoWorld article I linked took care of the problem on my Win7 computers. So far, anyway.
I mentioned in a previous reply that I have given up on this particular machine, but I was following up to answer the questions that were asked. I did try every suggestion on the various support threads that I found.
I ran a computer business in NY for many years until 2005 when I moved to CA to work here at Parallax. Up to that point I was very good at diagnosing and repairing software issues, whereas my "competition" would just wipe the machine and start over losing customer data in the process. That's one of the reasons I was so popular. Even if I did have to re-install, I backed up customer data and restored it. So I have a little experience with Windows issues.
I do miss the good old days though...my computer business started when the C=64 was popular and was non-PC right up until Commodore went under.
No malware installed except Office and Security Essentials you mean.
Heater,
You are obviously not a Microsoft fan. I wouldn't say I am any more than I would say I am an Apple fan-boy (no iPhone here; Android user). However, we use what we must and do what we must.
I use Security Essentials because it has very low overhead and seems to be just as effective (or, no less effective) than Norton, McAffee and AVG but without being a resource hog. My copy of Office is an OLD 3-license copy that I picked up years ago in NY. I refuse to upgrade to a newer version for some of the same reasons I refuse to upgrade to Windows 10.
Right up until Windows 10 I was content to deal with the issues Windows has burdened me with over the years as a necessary evil. But the day that little pop-up nag bubble came up advertising Windows 10 and streaming data onto my PC in the background without my consent I made a decision...no more Windows PCs. Once these machines are done I am going to move to a non-Windows O/S.
I'm going to do as Morpheus suggested and free my mind.
It's not about being a Microsoft fan or an Apple fan or whatever. It's not about the technical merits of this OS or that. Or this software or that.
It's about not having ones computing infrastructure dependent on a single supplier. Especially not a corporation over which one has no control and is for most people in a foreign country.
That was the situation for the last few decades and still is to a large extent.
To my mind that is insane. And I will always advise against it.
Now that operating systems and applications are largely irrelevant it continues of course, now with companies trying to hook you on their cloud services, Azure, AWS, Google, etc.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I ran across a suggestion regarding manual patch installation. If you first stop the Windows Update service (wuauserv), and also temporarily disconnect the internet connection, that will convince the package installer to run without checking for updates. At least that is the claim. I haven't tested it.
If it's any consolation, I've had this problem with Windows 7 not being able to upgrade for over 6 months now. I thought it was just me and a problem with my Router, Internet connection, Hosts file, or something on my end.
I have/had an old Dell XPS-15 laptop with Windows 7 and a brand new MacBook Pro With Windows 7 installed in a Virtual Machine. Windows 7 on both machines haven't been able to update for months. The Updater gets stuck on "Downloading" and never finishes.
I tried installing Windows 10 on the Dell, but hated it because it was slow and didn't work well, and went back to Windows 7. Even after a clean install of Windows 7, the computer was not able to complete any updates.
So, I ultimately got rid of the Dell and bought a Sager/Clevo (awesome computers), with Windows 10 and have had no problems. Windows 10 works excellently on the Sager and I like it. Best operating system Microsoft has made.
I took the Virtual Machine off the Mac.
I have no idea what the problem with the updates is. I removed the Windows 10 Update nags from both installations of Windows 7, but the problem also continued with a fresh install of Windows 7. I just got tired of fighting it and gave in.
Chris - Not to beat a dead horse, but I ran across a suggestion regarding manual patch installation. If you first stop the Windows Update service (wuauserv), and also temporarily disconnect the internet connection, that will convince the package installer to run without checking for updates. At least that is the claim. I haven't tested it.
Bob
Bob,
I will keep that in mind in case either of the other Windows 7 PCs act up again on the next round of updates. Thanks.
Chris, If it's any consolation, I've had this problem with Windows 7 not being able to upgrade for over 6 months now. I thought it was just me and a problem with my Router, Internet connection, Hosts file, or something on my end.
I have/had an old Dell XPS-15 laptop with Windows 7 and a brand new MacBook Pro With Windows 7 installed in a Virtual Machine. Windows 7 on both machines haven't been able to update for months. The Updater gets stuck on "Downloading" and never finishes. I tried installing Windows 10 on the Dell, but hated it because it was slow and didn't work well, and went back to Windows 7. Even after a clean install of Windows 7, the computer was not able to complete any updates. <trimmed>
Kenny
Kenny,
Not only did I have the same issue with installing the Windows 10 upgrade on that Dell as Windows 7 was having with regular updates (irony, in and of itself) but I was watching my Twitter feed and noticed the following tweets, which make me shake my head in disbelief at the quality of Windows software these days...
In this one it clearly says it is at 100% of the current task, but stuck there. At least he got to 100%, but as he points out, 100% means done, yet it clearly isn't even close.
In this one the message simply says, "working on it...", but doesn't seem to be doing anything. The message was useless and didn't show any progress, not that it matters, according to the previous tweet.
Solved all my Win10 problems on my DELL XPS15 9550, I installed OpenSUSE Tumbleweed!
Normally I'm a LinuxMint guy and although I've admired OpenSUSE it's always lacked codecs and packages suitable for my environment. I tried many many distros but since it seemed to handle the small 4k screen better and recognize the NVMe SSD etc I persisted with it and found repos and packages for my favorite software. Now it's all up and running very smoothly not lacking a single thing and it knows how to go to sleep or shutdown etc and behave itself as well.
Interesting...so just out of the blue someone reminded me about the update issues today and I booted my Windows 7 VM on this Windows 8.1 host and went to check for updates. It was checking for a few minutes and I changed the settings to automatically download and update. When I checked back a few minutes later there were 58 updates. By default the one that puts the little nag bubble about Windows 10 was unchecked.
Anyway the updates downloaded and installed fine. Which makes me wonder whether it was the configuration or something on Microsoft's side.
Heater - as you probably know sometimes Windows is just the easiest solution. I spent quite a few hours trying to get various Ham Radio software packages running under Wine on Linux Mint, and finally gave up and spent $200 for a laptop from the Microsoft store with the "signature" edition of Windows. (It's like buying an Android phone from Google versus others - it doesn't come with all of the vendor specific garbage so that saves you some time cleaning up.)
The software that was giving me the most trouble was Kenwood's MCP-4a (see http://www.kenwood.com/i/products/info/amateur/software_download.html) and yeah there's a free sort of alternative called Chirp, but it doesn't do everything that Kenwood's software does. (Or RT Systems which is also Windows only - didn't try it with Wine.) I also couldn't get Outpost/Pacforms (https://www.scc-ares-races.org/packet/client-software.html) completely functional - although I could connect to a packet BBS, the forms weren't working quite right and it seemed quite slow. I was also having problems getting a certain printer to work. I didn't try any of the SDR software under Linux.
You would think that there would be good support for linux by ham software too. But if you tune into a talknet (e.g. http://www.9amtalk.net/) plenty of Windows subject matter comes up.
I have not been involved in the Ham world since I was a kid. And then only marginally, building a couple of receivers with tubes and transistors and hanging out at the local Ham club to glean some electronics know how.
I would have thought people like that would be all over Linux, it's in the spirit of Do It Yourself. But I guess companies like Kenwood to just do the corporate thing and support Windows only.
I get the impression there is more Linux action in the SDR world.
Totally off-topic, but I bought an SDR dongle (from rtl-sdr to support them ~$20) that I can plug into my Android phone. How could I resist? It actually works, but I haven't had much time to play with it. Anyone on these forums in the U.S. could pass the exam with a little study, and get started with a Baofeng 2m/70cm radio for ~$30 plus testing fees. I hear some children contacting their parents via 2m after school. Not a bad tool to have just in case...
My current idea of radio as a hobby is getting hold of some modules that support the new fangled LoRaWAN standard. Low data rate wireless communication with a range of up to 15Km with very low power consumption. A LoRa gadget can run from batteries for years. http://modtronix.com/inair9.html
Comments
As far as I remember I only have the first and third updates you listed hidden. The first is the one that checks for compatibility for Windows 10, IIRC and the third one puts the little nag bubble in your system tray and IIRC also streams the update data into a cache for when you finally submit to the "upgrade". I don't recognize the other numbers off the top of my head, but I don't believe I have any of them hidden, so they're probably installed.
As for shutting down improperly, that hasn't happened on the affected machines. The one that finally got updates has had that happen before because of lock-ups where I was forced to hit the reset button, but as I said, that is my main PC and it does take several minutes to get updates, but it does get them. As I also mentioned...it never shows that it is downloading them. Progress does't update until it actually starts installing them.
So you disable updates on windows to get rid of that nag screen, using manual registry entries (even if done with some patch program) and then complain that you have problems with updates?
Really?
Wash me, but don't get me wet?
confused,
Mike
The problem Chris is having is, when trying to let the updates install (which should work, don't you think?), it can take hours to actually get them off the server. Sometimes it simply doesn't work at all. Further, many people who install everything still have the problem. Is that a user issue?
Finally, I have a couple of machines running Win10. You can't disable updates, or even delay them, and when Win10 wants to download updates it eats pretty much the full bandwidth of your internet connection until it's done. As far as I'm aware there's nothing you can do to stop it except shut the computer down. IMO, that's utterly ridiculous.
It isn't that we object to the washing, it's that the washing is more like waterboarding.
Bob
Re: Win10- Pro lets you defer updates; Home does not.
Also, WRT bandwidth, I'm on a 100/100 FIOS connection and participating in the insider program and have at several times had several computers downloading new builds, 2 towers and 2 tablets and sometimes a laptop or two thrown in, while I've been browsing the 'net on one of them, And done this while my wife watches Netflix on the Roku upstairs and my kid is watching Netflix on the Roku downstairs, both connected to HD TV's and configured for HD content, with no issues other than the computers' update downloads throttle back a bit. Maybe it has something to do with the router QoS being configured properly?
The stand-alone windows update application does the same thing. It can't find any updates...just says, "checking..." forever. This machine has no infections, no malware and the only software installed is Chrome, Office and Security Essentials, which is up to date. Oh, and things used to work just fine. Just suddenly all the machines seemed to have issues with updates at some point.
Chris mentioned problems with direct download. Once the install started, it would start a search for installed updates from which it would not return.
Regarding bandwidth, I'll stand corrected about a 100/100 FIOS connection. My DSL is, umm, dog slow at best so maybe I shouldn't have claimed it would consume "your internet connection", instead just saying it certainly consumes MY internet connection. I live in a rural area and FIOS is not an option so perhaps my mindset is a bit skewed. Thanks for pointing out the difference, except that it makes me jealous.
With regard to deferring updates, even the lowliest version of an OS should recognize that at times, when the user boots up a computer he/she has something that they really need to complete, and they should NOT have to wait while the operating system updates itself. It would be fine for it to check for updates, and even require timely installation, as long as the user has the option to say "not now". Generally, I boot up a computer so that I can use it, not so Microsoft can use it, and if I have to leave it run when I'm done to get an update installed, I could live with that but the user gets priority. And one should not need a Pro version for that. IMO the only reason the Pro version allows it is that MS knows Win10 would be DOA in a corporate environment without it.
A little searching provides the following as a possible work-around:
1) Run msconfig.exe as administrator.
2) Under Services, deselect Windows Module Installer. Apply and reboot.
3) Windows Update now runs. Download and install any updates.
However, other software updates and installations may not run anymore. Therefore:
4) Leave Windows Update set NOT to check for updates automatically.
5) Run msconfig.exe again and reselect Windows Module Installer. Apply and reboot.
6) Set yourself a reminder to run Windows Update periodically by following these same steps.
*edit- Out of curiosity, have you ran system file checker in an elevated command prompt?
sfc /scannow
... or tried an in-place upgrade?
I ran a computer business in NY for many years until 2005 when I moved to CA to work here at Parallax. Up to that point I was very good at diagnosing and repairing software issues, whereas my "competition" would just wipe the machine and start over losing customer data in the process. That's one of the reasons I was so popular. Even if I did have to re-install, I backed up customer data and restored it. So I have a little experience with Windows issues.
I do miss the good old days though...my computer business started when the C=64 was popular and was non-PC right up until Commodore went under.
Heater,
You are obviously not a Microsoft fan. I wouldn't say I am any more than I would say I am an Apple fan-boy (no iPhone here; Android user). However, we use what we must and do what we must.
I use Security Essentials because it has very low overhead and seems to be just as effective (or, no less effective) than Norton, McAffee and AVG but without being a resource hog. My copy of Office is an OLD 3-license copy that I picked up years ago in NY. I refuse to upgrade to a newer version for some of the same reasons I refuse to upgrade to Windows 10.
Right up until Windows 10 I was content to deal with the issues Windows has burdened me with over the years as a necessary evil. But the day that little pop-up nag bubble came up advertising Windows 10 and streaming data onto my PC in the background without my consent I made a decision...no more Windows PCs. Once these machines are done I am going to move to a non-Windows O/S.
I'm going to do as Morpheus suggested and free my mind.
:cool:
It's about not having ones computing infrastructure dependent on a single supplier. Especially not a corporation over which one has no control and is for most people in a foreign country.
That was the situation for the last few decades and still is to a large extent.
To my mind that is insane. And I will always advise against it.
Now that operating systems and applications are largely irrelevant it continues of course, now with companies trying to hook you on their cloud services, Azure, AWS, Google, etc.
How to block Windows 10 upgrades on your business network (and at home, too)
http://www.zdnet.com/article/how-to-block-windows-10-upgrades-on-your-business-network-and-at-home-too/
Not to beat a dead horse, but I ran across a suggestion regarding manual patch installation. If you first stop the Windows Update service (wuauserv), and also temporarily disconnect the internet connection, that will convince the package installer to run without checking for updates. At least that is the claim. I haven't tested it.
Bob
It used to be that we would try and design and configure operating systems to be safe from attacks from the outside.
Now, I see a lot of discussion as to how to contain Windows on the inside.
What is going on?
If it's any consolation, I've had this problem with Windows 7 not being able to upgrade for over 6 months now. I thought it was just me and a problem with my Router, Internet connection, Hosts file, or something on my end.
I have/had an old Dell XPS-15 laptop with Windows 7 and a brand new MacBook Pro With Windows 7 installed in a Virtual Machine. Windows 7 on both machines haven't been able to update for months. The Updater gets stuck on "Downloading" and never finishes.
I tried installing Windows 10 on the Dell, but hated it because it was slow and didn't work well, and went back to Windows 7. Even after a clean install of Windows 7, the computer was not able to complete any updates.
So, I ultimately got rid of the Dell and bought a Sager/Clevo (awesome computers), with Windows 10 and have had no problems. Windows 10 works excellently on the Sager and I like it. Best operating system Microsoft has made.
I took the Virtual Machine off the Mac.
I have no idea what the problem with the updates is. I removed the Windows 10 Update nags from both installations of Windows 7, but the problem also continued with a fresh install of Windows 7. I just got tired of fighting it and gave in.
Kenny
Bob,
I will keep that in mind in case either of the other Windows 7 PCs act up again on the next round of updates. Thanks.
Kenny,
Not only did I have the same issue with installing the Windows 10 upgrade on that Dell as Windows 7 was having with regular updates (irony, in and of itself) but I was watching my Twitter feed and noticed the following tweets, which make me shake my head in disbelief at the quality of Windows software these days...
In this one it clearly says it is at 100% of the current task, but stuck there. At least he got to 100%, but as he points out, 100% means done, yet it clearly isn't even close.
In this one the message simply says, "working on it...", but doesn't seem to be doing anything. The message was useless and didn't show any progress, not that it matters, according to the previous tweet.
Normally I'm a LinuxMint guy and although I've admired OpenSUSE it's always lacked codecs and packages suitable for my environment. I tried many many distros but since it seemed to handle the small 4k screen better and recognize the NVMe SSD etc I persisted with it and found repos and packages for my favorite software. Now it's all up and running very smoothly not lacking a single thing and it knows how to go to sleep or shutdown etc and behave itself as well.
Who do you trust more, the ShamWOW guy or this fine fellow?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/3067117/windows/microsoft-says-it-will-stop-pestering-users-to-get-windows-10-in-july.html
Anyway the updates downloaded and installed fine. Which makes me wonder whether it was the configuration or something on Microsoft's side.
I guess I'll just need to be satisfied with Windows 7 on this guy until it turns to dust....like I've been satisfied all these years already!!!
Microsoft did offer to take me computer shopping so I could experience Windows 10.....meh!
The software that was giving me the most trouble was Kenwood's MCP-4a (see http://www.kenwood.com/i/products/info/amateur/software_download.html) and yeah there's a free sort of alternative called Chirp, but it doesn't do everything that Kenwood's software does. (Or RT Systems which is also Windows only - didn't try it with Wine.) I also couldn't get Outpost/Pacforms (https://www.scc-ares-races.org/packet/client-software.html) completely functional - although I could connect to a packet BBS, the forms weren't working quite right and it seemed quite slow. I was also having problems getting a certain printer to work. I didn't try any of the SDR software under Linux.
You would think that there would be good support for linux by ham software too. But if you tune into a talknet (e.g. http://www.9amtalk.net/) plenty of Windows subject matter comes up.
I have not been involved in the Ham world since I was a kid. And then only marginally, building a couple of receivers with tubes and transistors and hanging out at the local Ham club to glean some electronics know how.
I would have thought people like that would be all over Linux, it's in the spirit of Do It Yourself. But I guess companies like Kenwood to just do the corporate thing and support Windows only.
I get the impression there is more Linux action in the SDR world.