Need new desktop brand recommendation
twm47099
Posts: 867
I need to replace my son's desktop computer. He is NOT a power user, only needs Microsoft Office (for compatibility) and some music and video downloads.
He previously had an old HP Windows XP computer with minimal memory and small hard drive. The memory was so small (64MB I think), that it was deathly slow as it had to swap to HD for almost any operation. He started having other problems with it and the slow operation made it impossible to trouble shoot.
I bought him a Dell desktop (windows 8, no included paper product keys) and after a few months, the computer wouldn't boot up - he had to do a OS repair, that didn't work. Since it is still under warantee, I am working with Dell to get it fixed. They sent an OS Restore and Repair USB drive that re-images the OS. However, it failed to recover his "personality settings" (which I assume include things like the Windows product key). And he can't get past that error message. Since it is still in warantee, I intend to keep working with Dell to get it fixed.
But, he needs a computer now. My other son who has some experience building gaming systems essentially laughed and said 'never buy that brand'. He has had to replace most parts of his formerly Dell system.
So my question - what's a good brand desktop to buy (preferably from a local store, such as best buy), but I can get one online if necessary and in stock. I have heard of people using Lenovo computers, but that seems like an off brand??? My computer is an older HP with windows XP that I am happy with. but I don't know how HP stacks up today. (We do have HP windows 7 computers at work & they seem ok).
For his needs, I want to spend less than $500 (less than $400 would be better).
Any suggestions? (Once I get him squared away, I may have some questions about converting Windows 8 Dell into some other OS for my playing around.
Thanks
Tom
Comments
My main computer is a Pavillion 20, basically a 20 inch Monitor with the computer build in. Needs less space and less wiring.
Very quiet, something I like much.
I think it was below $400.
Enjoy!
Mike
http://forums.parallax.com/discussion/162642/cheap-new-computer/p1
I have 4 Acer laptops from 2006 & 2007 and they all still work although I had to replace a broken DC connector for $6 on one laptop.
My wife had a Compaq Laptop that only lasted 3 years from ~2010
I now have a newer Acer now 2 years old. Came with windows 8 which I immediately upgraded to 8.1 and since to Windows 10 64-bit. Six months ago I swapped the HDD to a Samsung 850 120GB SSD. Best investment ever.
I still use one of the 2007 laptops almost daily running Windows 7 32bit and some old PCB design software that will not run on 64bit windows.
I did note you mentioned desktop, but since I retired all my desktops I haven't looked back. However, I am seriously considering the NUC type boxes as I don't need a laptop (iPhone and ipad work fine when I am out).
John Abshier
A serious question. When I check the computer stores around here there are very few PC boxes on display. Many of those are targeted speed obsessed gamers who want to be able to swap in whatever biggest, fastest, graphics board is at any moment. These boxes are not cheap.
For a non-power user (whatever a power user is) why not a small, convenient laptop, or Surface Pro? Why not a tiny NUC?
Non-power user: He just uses Office and the standard Windows media players. Doesn't get into high powered games or making mods to the computer. As I stated above he has been using a 64 MB Windows XP computer (slooow), and wouldn't change it except it started giving him problems.
He looked at laptops, but doesn't like the keyboards, screens and touch pads. He eats while he uses the computer so a touch screen won't work well. Once he adds a docking station, monitor, keyboard & mouse the price starts adding up. Around here the desktops are generally less expensive than laptops.
Dell sent me an email saying that they will do an onsite replacement of the HD and mother board, so hopefully his computer will be ok. So if all goes well then we won't need to get a new one just yet.
But I appreciate the info from all, and since there isn't much difference in brands, when I get my new one I'll just be able to buy based on features I want.
Unrelated topic - I'm thinking about trying one of the Linux based OS. Is it a good idea to buy a used (really cheap) desktop and use that to start learning? Would a Raspberry Pi be a better way to be introduced to Linux?
Thanks
Tom
I wouldn't recommend an actual NUC because most models are overkill and overpriced, maybe because they are sold by Intel. However, I think the mini computer/NUC form factor is the best way to go for a cheap but useable home PC. They are small, don't use much power, and you can choose whatever monitor and keyboard/mouse you like. You really have to buy at the low end of the price range though, price tends to skyrocket with added features.
The two cheapest Brix models can be turned into a very nice desktop PC for under $200 if you avoid Windows. All you have to add is a 4 GB memory module for about $20 and a $50 SSD. If you absolutely must have Windows, an OEM install disk adds another $140. It takes maybe 30 minutes to assemble the parts and install the OS.
However I was kind of assuming you had keyboard and monitor already that could be connected to a laptop / NUC / whatever.
Then you have all the luxury of a PC and it's portable if you ever need that.
I get a lot of terrible feedback here if I ever talk about Linux so all I will say, is use Debian. Put it on that Dell when it's fixed. I'm not into resurrecting old PC's.
For a simple, works out of the box, Linux machine that is very cheap a Raspberry Pi 2 is a great idea. However be prepared to find keyboard/mouse/screen for it. And don't expect PC performance in web browsing and such. There is a lot that can be learned and interesting things to be done with a Pi and some cheap extras, like the camera module or some peripheral expansion boards.
Get a Propeller Hat board for 20 dollars and program Props from the Pi!
I agree with Heater on the Raspberry Pi 2. It's a great learning tool because when you screw something up you can just pull the SD card out, stick it in another computer and re-write the whole disk. Short of dual-booting Windows & Linux, this is the next best thing.
If you have a spare monitor laying around, and maybe an 8GB SD card from a camera or something, it's hard to beat the price of a Pi. Even better if you have a USB wifi module laying around that can be plugged into the Pi (or you have Ethernet nearby).
I had Linux on an external USB hard drive and when it was plugged into my computer I could boot Linux up. It will be a little slower than a internal drive but you can save on it. You just have to have a computer that can boot from USB. Google Linux on External Drives for more info.
The MINI form factor appeals to me as it eliminates a huge about of desk clutter. Take a look at the VivoMINI series -- about the size of a hockey puck.
At $139.00 USD from Amazon, that leaves you with a bit of headroom for a monitor and other stuff... any you will have to add other stuff - monitor, storage, and an OS. But it seems to be able to depend on wifi for networking (that could also connect to a wifi printer server).
I really like the UN42 and the bigger UN62 -- very clean design. Intel chips. You might find a deal where it is bundled with Windows 7,8.1, or 10. Video is HDMI, so you may have to buy a HDMI to VGA adapter to use your existing monitor.
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/systems/80150-asus-vivomini-un42/
https://www.asus.com/Commercial-Desktop/VivoMini_UN42_commercial/
I just bought 2 at $3k each. They are CAD stations and the use case requires the highest single thread performance I can get. So, I got machines over clocked to 4.2Ghz. Intel 4790 chips are the quickest right now. They may still be, depending on what Intel ends up doing and how fast it really will run.
The other extreme seems to be these stripped down few hundred dollar machines. A little while back, I found Lenovo boxes for a few hundred bucks. If you just want compute, keeping an eye out for those can net 32Gb RAM and a fast i7 for $500 or so. Add any graphics and or SSD you might have laying around, or pick up for add ons, and a desktop can be really fast, and cheap. $400 to $800 range.
Few laptops can compare with the much quicker desktop machines. Specs are similar, but thermal management takes a lot out of the laptops.
The machine is just a dumb terminal to facebook or whatever.
$3K is about 10 times more than I ever want to drop for a computer. Has been for thirty years.
Unless the client is paying of course
Sadly, faster is simply not available. If it were, I would easily pay $10k
Personally, I won't spend that much either.
It is interesting to benchmark the under $1k deals I mentioned above can deliver as much as 70 percent of the performance of the more expensive machine.
The use case for the $3k machine is CAM tool path generation. On large jobs, there is no such thing as enough ram and fast enough CPU.
A high end laptop will sit for many hours, sometimes days, fan on high, running flat out doing the same thing that box does in a few hours.
A benefit of Costco is that they are more liberal regarding returns for replacement. It's more common for computer gear to fail within the first few weeks (or even days) of use.
I think these days they sell mostly HP and Dell, but they have Lenovo (NOT an off-brand), and maybe a couple of other specialty brands. They have more variety online than in the stores. Their online machines are fairly well equipped, so the sub-$500 price may be a little tough, but they may have one or two.
I believe Newegg and TigerDirect are selling these also. They are refurbished by JoySystems. Windows 7 Pro.
If I didn't have 6 computers, I would buy another.
Replacing the spinning disk with an SSD would have been a certainty, but what finally put me off was the large case size needed to accommodate an optical disk drive. I really wanted something small and a DVD drive is nearly useless these days (though I do have one of the portable USB types just in case).
Now if only you could beam your tool path generation up to an AWS or Azure cloud instance, paid for by the minute, you could get the job done in the same time for cents
BTW, I bought my computer directly from HP at a significant discount. Be sure to check their website before going the big-box route. It could save you hundreds.
-Phil
There are whole classes of problems stuck in sequential compute. Been waiting for those 6ghz machines for a while now. With this problem, it is possible to run different paths in parallel, but not possible to process a long one that way. For that case, we just bury the desktop. It keeps good performance with the water cooling. Memory contention goes up, but overall, not too much impact. There is some though. AWS would perform a bit better overall on this case, but it's not the bottleneck.
Yep, $1k sweet spot. Agreed. Once in a qhile, one can get 80 percent or better. Usually happens right at a generation change.
The other one is 3 to 5k. That usually nets you the best compute and RAM throughput possible, or really close. Worth it for dedicated workstation use cases. The machine I got was a steal. Shipped, tested, overclocked, water cooled, Quadra 4K graphics, etc....
It can really matter on a top end laptop.
I was not really thinking of parallel processing on AWS. Just that they will sell you use of some stonking computer my the minute for just cents a minute. As will MS Azure and others. Pay for what you use. Thus saving thousands of dollars, unless you happen to be doing this kind of thing all day every day.
Yes, it seems the Asus UN42 has only two USB ports and no internal wifi. If one wants a USB keyboard, a USB mouse, a USB wifi, and a USB printer, you will have to add a powered USB hub. More wires, more clutter. and I am not sure there is internal Bluetooth.
Not sure what the Gigabit BRIX provides in features. A shopper really has to do comparisons in detail.
I have always felt that being locked into a special keyboard that is not easy to replace was one of the worst features of laptops. Glass screens was another. But a laptop really does allow one to move around one's home and work from different places. And sometimes, learning something about computers takes having two computers side-by-side. So a desktop may only be useful when there is also a laptop in the home.
Really good computer keyboards used to be made with Cherry Hall-effect keys to get just the right tactile feedback. But those days are pretty much gone. The concept of tactile feedback seems to be ignored these days as it adds too much to production costs.
I'm not sure you're correct about the UN42. This one seems to have four USB 3 ports and built-in WiFi.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856110129&ignorebbr=1&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-_-pla-_-Barebone+Systems+-+Mini+/+Booksize-_-N82E16856110129&gclid=COye4p2qzMkCFYr2HwodnFEHLA&gclsrc=aw.ds
The UN42 does have 4 USB 3.0 ports, you can see them in the photos. Both devices have two video ports HDMI/DisplayPort on the Asus, HDMI/VGA on the Brix. M-SATA vs. 2.5" SSD, dual channel vs. single channel RAM slots.
Shop carefully folks...
Yeah, it won't beat the desktop, but it is cheaper, and it will beat many desktops. But, the data is large, gotta get it there, gotta get it back. Graphically, it's demanding too. So far, I've not been impressed with anything cloud based when it comes to interacting with large geometry datasets.
One day though. Just not today.
From what you are saying the compute time should dominate the upload/download time.
Still. What do I know?