Turns out Microsoft sets a limit on these types of computers. They can't have more than 32 GB storage, and the RAM must be limited, plus other limitations - otherwise they drastically increase the Windows tax. And that's why the specs on these things are always very close to unusable.
Yes, and per another discussion, the free Windows versions are only free for tablet computers with a screen under 9", which explains the conspicuous labeling of 8.95" here.
I got a very nice but not so cheap tablet: a Microsoft Surface Pro 4. I mostly bought it on Heater's recommendation. It seems to work quite nicely. Later tonight I'm going to try to connect its dock to my two 27" monitors.
And I assume that comes with Microsoft Signature Edition? So you don't waste hours cleaning off the vendor's junk ware/trialware/...?
I got a very nice but not so cheap tablet: a Microsoft Surface Pro 4. I mostly bought it on Heater's recommendation. It seems to work quite nicely. Later tonight I'm going to try to connect its dock to my two 27" monitors.
And I assume that comes with Microsoft Signature Edition? So you don't waste hours cleaning off the vendor's junk ware/trialware/...?
I didn't see too much junk on it although I think there is a trial copy of Office 365. I just ignored it. :-)
BTW, it works quite nicely with the doc and two 27" monitors connected.
These limited netbooks tend not to come with much bundled Smile. I've bought several tablets and clamshell format laptops under these limits for work and they've been remarkably free of cruft. Saves a couple of hours getting each of them ready for use, which practically makes them free.
Cruft is a collective term for the elements of a program, system or product that are either useless, poorly designed or both. In computing, cruft describes areas of redundant, improper or simply badly written code, as well as old or inferior hardware and electronics. Cruft may also be used to describe a group of hackers, just as "pod" describes a group of whales, "exultation" a group of larks and "murder" a group of crows.
Derived from "crust", but with an 18th century twist:
Franklin: '... and among these are Life, Liberty, and the Purfuit of Happineff?'
Jefferson: That's 'Pursuit of Happiness'
Franklin: Well, all your s's look like f's.
Jefferson: It's stylish. It's in; it's very in.
Franklin: Oh, well, if it's in.
Derived from "crust", but with an 18th century twist:
Franklin: '... and among these are Life, Liberty, and the Purfuit of Happineff?'
Jefferson: That's 'Pursuit of Happiness'
Franklin: Well, all your s's look like f's.
Jefferson: It's stylish. It's in; it's very in.
Franklin: Oh, well, if it's in.
Fry's has this 16GB/1GB tablet for $34. That's a new low price for a new Win10 device AFAIK but I imagine that it's more than a bit frustrating to use or update. My 32 GB Nextbook requires a big flashdrive for any update.
I got a very nice but not so cheap tablet: a Microsoft Surface Pro 4. I mostly bought it on Heater's recommendation.
It seems to work quite nicely. Later tonight I'm going to try to connect its dock to my two 27" monitors.
Uh-oh, I hope you and your Surface are getting along well together. Otherwise I'm on the hook for spouting duff recommendations.
I'm not sure I would call the Surface a "tablet". It sure has a tablet format physically but it runs a full up operating system and performs as well, or better, than any PC I have ever owned. The display is better than any laptop I have around here. It's even more expensive than any PC I have ever bought for myself. Especially when you add the 150 odd dollars for the dock.
Anyway, I have been living night and day with my Surface for a year now. So here is what I think about it:
Generally I'm amazed that all the software I have been using on Linux for years runs really well: Chrome, Firefox, Gimp, Inkscape, git, gcc, PropellerIDE, SimpleIDE, Libre Office, Visual Studio Code, Atom, Sublime, node.js, Lazarus, KiCad, BST, Virtual Box, mosquitto, QtCreator, etc, etc.
The Linux Subsystem for Windows is great. Even if it is based on Ubuntu. With that I can almost work as normal.
Ironically things that give me trouble are old Windows only apps. Those kind of tools companies give you to configure their stuff, which you need because they have some old fashioned ideas about secret protocols and copy protection. Generally they are screwed by the high resolution of the Surface display which makes them unusable.
Turns out that using the Surface out in the field is a pain. The display is not bright enough to fight against the Californian sunshine. Having the thing insist on doing updates while you are on site costs time and hence hundreds of bucks as everyone stands around waiting for it to finish.
Oh, the most annoying thing is that if I connect my big Samsung monitor via the dock then the WiFi stops working. Then I need an ethernet connection to the dock. Works OK if I connect directly to the Surface. This seems to be a hardware issue that is much discussed around the net. I have yet to find a solution.
But then, don't listen to me. I have been to the bowels of MS in San Jose and been drinking their Kool-Aid recently. I think they put some parasitic brain worm into their food that makes you buy MS stuff
When I disconnect my dock from the Surface it breaks the network connections via WIFI. WTF?
I like my Surface Pro 4. The only real problem I have with it is that it stops understanding how to talk to the monitor plugged into my dock after it wakes up from sleeping. I had to change the setting to avoid sleeping while not running on the battery to "fix" this. I don't have network problems with the dock because I have it connected to ethernet and don't use the wi-fi in that case. To be honest, I've hardly ever used the Surface without it being connected to the dock. It makes me wonder why I didn't just buy a desktop!
That's odd, I don't recall having that problem with my external display when the Surface sleeps. I disable sleep when powered anyway as I find it annoying.
Buy a desktop? The Surface makes a great desktop for me. It's the smallest desktop machine I ever had. It's silent. I can't imagine wanting to buy a traditional desk top anymore. Never did like the laptop form factor.
One other Surface issue though. After one year the touch pad on the Type Cover has started misbehaving. I can no longer click and drag anything. Pointer moving works, left and right clicks work. Just wont drag and drop anymore or highlight text.
My only real concern about the Surface is running out of "disk" space. I only got the 256GB unit. I haven't tried working from an SD card yet but I'm afraid it might be quite slow.
I was a little worried about disk space as well before the purchase. I reasoned that If I end up needing more space there is always the option to attach something to USB or use network storage. Besides I have no great need to hoard gigs of video or audio and such.
I like to think any computer I am using is disposable. It can die or be stolen or whatever at any time. Better to think about where you are going to store stuff securely and get it backed up and/or replicated. Having limited space on the machine you are currently uses causes on to have to think about that. Which is a good thing.
As it happens after one year I have a ton of stuff installed and still 90GB free.
4G was huge in the 1990's. I recall buying a 1.2G Quantum Big Foot drive in 1998 or so. I thought I was being really extravagant and overspending. Still got it somewhere. Wonder if it still works? Is my first Red Hat install still on there?
When I was with CompUSA, in 1990, we had a full height Seagate SCSI 1Gb drive in stock for sale. Over 1,000 bucks. No buyers. I ended up renting it out to recording studios in Atlanta on a daily basis. It paid for itself in two months.
I loved CompUSA, spent all kinds of money there. My only bad purchase was a Sony StorStation 2GB (WOW!) tape drive. Very unreliable, tape jams, think I just threw it away a few years back.
My first computer was a Win95/98 Packard Bell from CompUSA. Now I know P-Bell had a terrible reputation, but I liked mine. It was reliable and taught me all kinds of stuff. Much better than a StorStation!
My first 40MB disk (~1987 +-) was full after three months, rendering the PC basically useless. And I worked with minicomputers at the time. The truth is that disks were *never* huge back then. It was a constant pain. On the minis we used 630MB disks around 1989/1990, because they were faster than the same vendor's 1.2GB disks. But it was always too little.
We didn't get huge disks until the Giant Magnetoresistance revolution, which happened for harddisks at the very end of the nineties. Only then did we get real 'huge' disks that didn't fill up painfully quickly.
I recall using a huge washing machine sized hard drive attached to an Intel Microprocessor Development System (MDS) at the Marconi Radar Company in 1982. After some days it started shaking and jumping around like a washing machine. A head crash. When the Intel field service guy came out and changed the platter there was a bright silver gouge all around some inside tracks of the foot and a half diameter disk.
In those days a head crash was a dramatic event! And expensive.
Seeing as I was using the machine at the time, and being the the newest, youngest guy in the group the team all looked at me like it was my fault. Grrrr.
IBM 5100. Two 204K (kilobyte) tape drives. Sequential access only, tape speed 40 IPS, 56Bps density. Effective read speed was 1KB/sec. Writes were much slower, as there was only the single read/write head. Write block, rewind to start of block, read block for verification, repeat for each block in the file.
And the tapes were $20-$25 each. And wore out after a year or so.
I was so happy (really) when the co. bought the next generation (5110) machine. 1.2MB 8" diskettes! Fantastic!
How about windows 10 on the prop. Win10 now runs on the Rasberry Pi. I guess you would probaly need another PIC to run the windows and use the prop for I/O or part of the GUI.
Even if it were possible Win 10 on the Prop it is a bad idea. It totally defeats the whole point of the Prop in the first place. And there are already tons of chips/SoCs better suited to the task.
Then, Windows 10 does not run on the Raspberry Pi. Some version of Win kernel and such does. It is not what anyone would recognizes as Win 10 on their PC, laptop or note book.
The Prop is not going to run any kind of Windows for the same reason it will not run any kind of Linux. The support for memory management is not there.
Not sure what you mean by "PIC" there. Presumably not a Microchip PIC processor.
I remember anxiously awaiting the arrival of a washing machine size disk drive for a MicroVAX. It showed up. We were so happy until we saw that it required a 30 amp socket. Directorate of Engineering said they would put it in local construction queue. Probably 9 months to a year. It would be three months until the next board meeting to put things in the queue. A copy of a CAD program and a fifth of whiskey, moved us up to the 2 week black market queue.
Heater's recommendation of the surface is spot on. Fewer bigger /M$ people out there after the hammering at M$ hand via the shenanigans with DOS and CP/M (remember when if a shop wanted to sell M$ DOS they could not sell anything else?) Wiped a few out, killed a lot of us in CP/M land. Then the antics surrounding OS/2? (Later finding out about the sweetheart deal with M$ and IBMs marketing team undermining OS/2). And of course who has not read the Halloween papers?. Yeah, a lot to dislike. However,
Going on 4 years with my SurfacePro 4G/128G, got it when my Blackberry tablet died. Wanted most compatibility with what I was doing all of my service documentation at work. I think it has only been in the last 7 months that my main linux box has been used again. I actually liked win8.1 better than 10, and still can't see any use for edge. Big screen? Just add small adapter for VGA, HDMI, etc. But the one thing 10 has, print to PDF. Print a PM protocol to PDF, open it in another app and I can scribble on it just like paper. Record all my PM details on it and then upload it with the service report. Just can not get any easier. Blue screens? NOT!! WT[H, ], how does an M$ product not blue screen? Well maybe the other day when the box failed to update to the creators update and failed. Otherwise, it has been rock solid. That and the Onenote that is part of Office360 (yeah the other one is there out of the box, but weak once you try its big brother). Before print to PDF, just print to that and write all over it. (only problem was it would shrink to fit and put headers and junk on it. That continues to be annoying. Just debating whether to go to the new PRO.......... MUST....... RESIST...........ASSIMILATION..................... uh, yeah, surface pro, that one should be in everyone's hands, no one should try to do anything without that and the latest great products from MicroSoft.....
Comments
Yes, and per another discussion, the free Windows versions are only free for tablet computers with a screen under 9", which explains the conspicuous labeling of 8.95" here.
And I assume that comes with Microsoft Signature Edition? So you don't waste hours cleaning off the vendor's junk ware/trialware/...?
BTW, it works quite nicely with the doc and two 27" monitors connected.
Cruft is a collective term for the elements of a program, system or product that are either useless, poorly designed or both. In computing, cruft describes areas of redundant, improper or simply badly written code, as well as old or inferior hardware and electronics. Cruft may also be used to describe a group of hackers, just as "pod" describes a group of whales, "exultation" a group of larks and "murder" a group of crows.
Jefferson: That's 'Pursuit of Happiness'
Franklin: Well, all your s's look like f's.
Jefferson: It's stylish. It's in; it's very in.
Franklin: Oh, well, if it's in.
-Stan Freberg, The United States of America
-Phil
lol, I love that LP, I wish I had it on cd!
Jim
I'm not at all tempted. No reviews/unavailable on Amazon bodes poorly: https://www.amazon.com/Naxa-NID-7016-Multi-Touch-Computer-1-83GHz/dp/B01FBNYIVW
I'm not sure I would call the Surface a "tablet". It sure has a tablet format physically but it runs a full up operating system and performs as well, or better, than any PC I have ever owned. The display is better than any laptop I have around here. It's even more expensive than any PC I have ever bought for myself. Especially when you add the 150 odd dollars for the dock.
Anyway, I have been living night and day with my Surface for a year now. So here is what I think about it:
Generally I'm amazed that all the software I have been using on Linux for years runs really well: Chrome, Firefox, Gimp, Inkscape, git, gcc, PropellerIDE, SimpleIDE, Libre Office, Visual Studio Code, Atom, Sublime, node.js, Lazarus, KiCad, BST, Virtual Box, mosquitto, QtCreator, etc, etc.
The Linux Subsystem for Windows is great. Even if it is based on Ubuntu. With that I can almost work as normal.
Ironically things that give me trouble are old Windows only apps. Those kind of tools companies give you to configure their stuff, which you need because they have some old fashioned ideas about secret protocols and copy protection. Generally they are screwed by the high resolution of the Surface display which makes them unusable.
Turns out that using the Surface out in the field is a pain. The display is not bright enough to fight against the Californian sunshine. Having the thing insist on doing updates while you are on site costs time and hence hundreds of bucks as everyone stands around waiting for it to finish.
Oh, the most annoying thing is that if I connect my big Samsung monitor via the dock then the WiFi stops working. Then I need an ethernet connection to the dock. Works OK if I connect directly to the Surface. This seems to be a hardware issue that is much discussed around the net. I have yet to find a solution.
But then, don't listen to me. I have been to the bowels of MS in San Jose and been drinking their Kool-Aid recently. I think they put some parasitic brain worm into their food that makes you buy MS stuff
When I disconnect my dock from the Surface it breaks the network connections via WIFI. WTF?
Buy a desktop? The Surface makes a great desktop for me. It's the smallest desktop machine I ever had. It's silent. I can't imagine wanting to buy a traditional desk top anymore. Never did like the laptop form factor.
One other Surface issue though. After one year the touch pad on the Type Cover has started misbehaving. I can no longer click and drag anything. Pointer moving works, left and right clicks work. Just wont drag and drop anymore or highlight text.
I was a little worried about disk space as well before the purchase. I reasoned that If I end up needing more space there is always the option to attach something to USB or use network storage. Besides I have no great need to hoard gigs of video or audio and such.
I like to think any computer I am using is disposable. It can die or be stolen or whatever at any time. Better to think about where you are going to store stuff securely and get it backed up and/or replicated. Having limited space on the machine you are currently uses causes on to have to think about that. Which is a good thing.
As it happens after one year I have a ton of stuff installed and still 90GB free.
My first computer was a Win95/98 Packard Bell from CompUSA. Now I know P-Bell had a terrible reputation, but I liked mine. It was reliable and taught me all kinds of stuff. Much better than a StorStation!
We didn't get huge disks until the Giant Magnetoresistance revolution, which happened for harddisks at the very end of the nineties. Only then did we get real 'huge' disks that didn't fill up painfully quickly.
Compare that to a microSD 16GB for $12 !!!
In those days a head crash was a dramatic event! And expensive.
Seeing as I was using the machine at the time, and being the the newest, youngest guy in the group the team all looked at me like it was my fault. Grrrr.
IBM 5100. Two 204K (kilobyte) tape drives. Sequential access only, tape speed 40 IPS, 56Bps density. Effective read speed was 1KB/sec. Writes were much slower, as there was only the single read/write head. Write block, rewind to start of block, read block for verification, repeat for each block in the file.
And the tapes were $20-$25 each. And wore out after a year or so.
I was so happy (really) when the co. bought the next generation (5110) machine. 1.2MB 8" diskettes! Fantastic!
Then, Windows 10 does not run on the Raspberry Pi. Some version of Win kernel and such does. It is not what anyone would recognizes as Win 10 on their PC, laptop or note book.
The Prop is not going to run any kind of Windows for the same reason it will not run any kind of Linux. The support for memory management is not there.
Not sure what you mean by "PIC" there. Presumably not a Microchip PIC processor.
curious,
Mike
John Abshier
Going on 4 years with my SurfacePro 4G/128G, got it when my Blackberry tablet died. Wanted most compatibility with what I was doing all of my service documentation at work. I think it has only been in the last 7 months that my main linux box has been used again. I actually liked win8.1 better than 10, and still can't see any use for edge. Big screen? Just add small adapter for VGA, HDMI, etc. But the one thing 10 has, print to PDF. Print a PM protocol to PDF, open it in another app and I can scribble on it just like paper. Record all my PM details on it and then upload it with the service report. Just can not get any easier. Blue screens? NOT!! WT[H, ], how does an M$ product not blue screen? Well maybe the other day when the box failed to update to the creators update and failed. Otherwise, it has been rock solid. That and the Onenote that is part of Office360 (yeah the other one is there out of the box, but weak once you try its big brother). Before print to PDF, just print to that and write all over it. (only problem was it would shrink to fit and put headers and junk on it. That continues to be annoying. Just debating whether to go to the new PRO.......... MUST....... RESIST...........ASSIMILATION..................... uh, yeah, surface pro, that one should be in everyone's hands, no one should try to do anything without that and the latest great products from MicroSoft.....