PropWareIDE, yes. I toyed with it long enough to remember how much I hate GUIs :P It works as a nice proof-of-concept for compiling C/C++ apps for the Propeller over the web, but I don't really want to put in the remaining work necessary to make the front-end usable. Or secure.
PropWareIDE, yes. I toyed with it long enough to remember how much I hate GUIs :P It works as a nice proof-of-concept for compiling C/C++ apps for the Propeller over the web, but I don't really want to put in the remaining work necessary to make the front-end usable. Or secure.
I can certainly understand. GUI work is tedious and no one ever likes the result. People always want something different from what you build. Take, for instance, SimpleIDE! :-)
Do what? I have to fire this all up and see what goes on now a days. There must be a binary somewhere else you can't load and start a Prop.
I agree, Spin should be removed. Along with anything else that stops SimpleIDE being "simple". Including XMM, does anyone actually use that with SimpleIDE?
I think the SPIN compiler (openspin) is needed in SimpleIDE to include Spin files in a SimpleIDE C project inorder to take advantage of PASM that is in the Spin program. I used that to make a PASM SPI driver and library for SimpleIDE C from the SPIPASM.spin object that is in the PropTool and PropIDE library. I also used that method to take the Tonyp12 1 pin 17 segment LED driver for the PPDB and convert it to a SimpleIDE C library.
By the way I did not update my version of SimpleIDE to the 1.0 version since I felt the previous version works better.
Maybe there should be a "VerySimpleIDE" for the education department and "SimpleIDE" for those of us who don't want to use a command line compiler.
What I would like to see is a propeller HAT with the switching power supply from the project board, as well as a much larger breadboard area than the current propeller HAT.
As far as SimpleIDE goes, SwimDude has the right idea: open up the build system of SimpleIDE so we can customize the build process when our needs exceed the Simple concept. This way Parallax can focus on the education aspect of it they do so well, and there is a bridge to power use later on.
I never used SimpleIDE because it was too limiting compared to Make files, and now it seems some don't want to use it because trying to support all the myriad cases within the GUI makes it not so simple anymore.
I think having SimpleIDE create a simple make file that calls user make files at strategic points (all of which is invisible to anyone that doesn't need it) is the simple, powerful compromise solution.
Rsadeika wrote: »
Ah, yes, the User Guide was not updated. It used to have things like Open file, New file, that have been removed. It also use to have a gearbox icon, you could start a new C file, and then have the gearbox icon create a project out of that. Plus it would have been nice if they had the option to just compile the file, and run it, if you wanted.
It seems that Parallax got rid of all the good stuff. I guess they do not want to confuse the beginners, with all the cool stuff. But then I guess it would not be a simple IDE anymore, if they left all that other stuff in there. But, it is to late for all that, what is done is done.
So I'm not crazy? I don't just have a buggy build? There really is no "new file" button?!
No, you're not crazy, but may have missed a small step about the File menu...
You need to also select "Set Project View" from the tools menu to see the other File menu options...
Once Set Project View has been selected, the File menu will contain 'more' options...
SimpleIDE no longer produces a binary file along with .side file, it used to, but, no longer. I guess they do not want the beginners, getting all confused with binary files. I am not sure about this, but I do not believe that SimpleIDE can load a binary file.
Running the released SimpleIDE 1.0.2 (RC2) on my Mac (10.10.5). A binary of the compiled .spin file is located with the .side and .spin files. At least, this happens if you've saved the project within the Project View mode (not sure about the Simple View mode)... You are correct that you cannot just load an arbitrary binary file to a board from SimpleIDE (unless to an attached SD card)... Should be fairly simple to add this in a future release of SimpleIDE!
A lot of hard work went into SimpleIDE... Jazzed was always open to adding features that made sense, while staying within SimpleIDE's project confines as requested by Parallax. As Jeff Martin has stated, the book on SimpleIDE has not been closed and it will get refreshed for the new world of wireless uploads and other features.
Some of the issues that folks are seeing have to do with the difficulty of trying to keep the code as OS-agnostic as possible (i.e. WIN COM ports versus Linux/Mac OS X dev ports). The port-handling code is open-source (I believe) and probably should get some attention. Another issue came about after the RaspberryPi variant became available and users wanted to use the RPi's GPIOs rather than a USB connection that was common within the sources. Another issue for future releases.
So, it's good to bring these issues up... But, it's also good to include enough information to allow debugging of the issue. What version of SimpleIDE? Running on what OS? What OS variant (Debian, Ubuntu, etc...). What OS version (OS X-10.10.5, Debian-Jessie, etc...). Attach images of what you are seeing as that really assists the diagnosis. Did you build your own SimpleIDE? What branch from GitHub (propside, qt-side, etc...) or code.google.com/? These are all good things to assist the process.
Personally, stating what I remember from months (years?) ago is only helpful to a point. It's all kinda foggy looking back. Re-testing with recent app versions on your current OS version may reveal some fixes as well as good fodder for critical review :-)
Yes, I agree that creating SimpleIDE took a lot of hard work and much of that was volunteer effort I believe. He deserves a lot of credit for building something that is apparently serving Parallax Education very well.
The comments that I have been making are not to trash jazzed, I know he was guided by Parallax.
Now, a new discovery, I guess the Apple guys are getting what dgately has described, while us Windows guys must be getting the left overs.
I have been making my comments based on SimpleIDE Windows 1.0 RC2 12-29-2014. I just did some of the steps that dgately has described, and us(making a big assumption here) Windows people do not have what he is showing. If somebody is going to do a new Windows installation, of SimpleIDE, I think I saw something come up, asking about making it a Project View version, or something like that, I wonder if things change then.
At this point if you install a normal Windows SimpleIDE session, the only thing that you have is the icon at the bottom left that switches you back and forth between Simple View and Project View. And, I also tried doing a compile in both Simple View and Project View, there was no binary file to be found. Just to be clear, on the Windows version, when switching to the Project View, it did not show any new choices in the 'File' selection.
So, dgately, I am not sure what version you are working with, but us Windows people are not getting what you have.
I am also starting another project on my Raspberry Pi, which I will be using SimpleIDE. As soon as I have it installed I will check it out to see how different that is from the Windows and Apple versions.
I just got through installing the SimpleIDE version for the Raspberry Pi, I can confirm that the Raspberry Pi version has a 'Set Project View' selection in Tools. I also double checked, again, my Windows machines, yes two of them, and no, the Tools item does not have a 'Set Project View' selection.
I originally thought that the idea behind SimpleIDE was that it was "simple".
From an educational perspective, put in front of people who may never have programmed anything before and are new to the real world interfacing of micro-controllers, I thought it would be a case of: write code, hit run, see it work. Or not
Same as the Arduino IDE but using a Propeller.
Jazzed has done a brilliant job on SimpileIDE, but it has long since diverged from what I thought it was supposed to be.
Those of us who can wield make files and worry about external memory are another breed.
I just got through installing the SimpleIDE version for the Raspberry Pi, I can confirm that the Raspberry Pi version has a 'Set Project View' selection in Tools. I also double checked, again, my Windows machines, yes two of them, and no, the Tools item does not have a 'Set Project View' selection.
Go to Tools -> Properties, then choose the "General" tab. Click the "View Mode" checkbox on the lower right.
Then go to Tools -> Set Project View (this option is enabled by the above checkbox).
I can confirm that this does indeed work on Windows.
Are you complaining that the repository is called "propside" but the product is called "SimpleIDE"? I think Parallax renamed it when they made it an official Parallax product. Steve gave it its original name and that is where the repository name came from.
Exactly, if it is a banner product for Parallax, it needs to be easy to find and with clearly visible support. "propside" sounds like some building cladding ....
Well, given that Parallax never had a repo for this code until a day or two ago it's not too late to change the repos name to match the products/binaries name.
View Mode: Enables Project View / Simple View mode toggle.
Page 11 in the Users Guide. I think SimpleIDE already does that with the icon at the bottom left.:-) I guess they really do not want the beginners messing with that, could the description be anymore terse?
Now I am wondering how simpletools.h will work when you are in the Project View?
Once you are in the real Project View, I guess SimpleIDE is not that simple anymore. Maybe this is the View that Heater. is complaining about? To credit Parallax, they did a very good job of concealing it, maybe they should just hide the other "Project View", and then when you click the View checkbox, one or the other goes away.
Ahhhh..... reading the above comments it all makes sense now. I assumed that clicking the button in the bottom-left was the same as switching to project view. Clearly that's not the case. I now have the correct options in the File menu, including new file.
Okay, SimpleIDE with PropWare is definitely happening. I've managed to get a basic program compiling and loading to the Propeller. I'll start another thread when I get some more work done, but with this basic smoke test functional, I'm pretty happy.
My forked repo has also been converted to CMake, so you can give it a shot in CLion (free licenses for OpenSource projects btw).
Well, given that Parallax never had a repo for this code until a day or two ago it's not too late to change the repos name to match the products/binaries name.
I know this will force me to do fix my own forked repo... but yes please.
Sometimes I really just want to sit down with a simple editor, a small fast compiler/assembler/whatever and write some simple code to relax and play and learn things about some device, some programming idea or myself. I don't want to read about a bunch of libraries to find one function I need. I don't want to struggle through ASM in gas linking to C running through make and resolving local labels just to write a PASM program. I don't want to struggle with projects for a 30 line program to see how something works.
Well said and I think it's in keeping with the spirit of the propeller.
The comments that I have been making are not to trash jazzed, I know he was guided by Parallax.
Understood. I never thought that you or anyone meant to trash Jazzed. My comments just pointed out that some issues were not identified until after SimleIDE was officially released.
So, dgately, I am not sure what version you are working with, but us Windows people are not getting what you have.
As I mentioned, I am using version 1.0.2 - RC2. Mac or Windows, the options are the same...
Looks like Jason affirmed that once the Properties were set for the View Mode option, that you should now see more options on Windows, correct?
For Raspberry Pi, I'm not sure if the released Simple IDE is the same version as for Mac, Windows, or x86Linux releases of the app. Options might differ.
Looks like Jason affirmed that once the Properties were set for the View Mode option, that you should now see more options on Windows, correct?
Yes, and I consider that to be a big difference, just my opinion.
I also had a chance to install SimpleIDE for the RPi, again. Well, the biggest pain with that version, is the very annoying, no com port available, when in fact you have your Propeller device attached. On my setup you have keep repeating the Run instruction until SimpleIDE decides that there is a com port available, this is a very annoying feature.:-) And since this is version 0-9-45, simpletools.h is very out of date, maybe I should just think of this as Simple View Lite. Well, I guess the good thing about this version is, I do not have to go through to many contortions to get to the real Project View.
I downloaded simple ide and it seems like I could only open a few examples . The rest says I needed google drive . So if your where a bigginer this system would be very difficult to use . And I'd rather use my arduino for C sketches. This ide just seems like an attempt to play catch up with arduino . I like the prop and bs2 (I just got into SX and they stop support) But arduino has really taken off and leaving everyone else in the dust. Raspberry Pi is a fun gadget too. Bs2 is an excellent bigginer board gotta love that simplified form of that Dartmouth basic.
This ide just seems like an attempt to play catch up with arduino.
Well, yes, I always thought that was the idea behind it. And have long since complained that SimpleIDE was diverging from that simplicity.
I don't really like to compare the Arduino to the Propeller. They are such very different things. But if we accept the demand for C on the Propeller and if we follow the demand for C on the Propeller for educational purposes then it made sense to me that the IDE should be as simple to use as the Arduino IDE or Prop Tool.
I downloaded simple ide and it seems like I could only open a few examples . The rest says I needed google drive...
SimpleIDE comes with over 80 examples in its ...Documents/SimpleIDE/Learn/Examples/ folder. They cover a wide range of topics from programming and circuit basics to device communication and multicore approaches. Most of those examples are documented in the learn.parallax.com site's Propeller C Tutorials, and the learn site also has a variety of additional projects above and beyond those that come with the software.
None of that requires Google Drive, nor have we ever published any examples that require you to install Google Drive. ...at least not intentionally, so if there is something in SimpleIDE or one of our downloads that's telling you install Google Drive, we'll correct that. So, could you please explain the steps we can follow to get to that message?
This ide just seems like an attempt to play catch up with arduino ... Bs2 is an excellent bigginer board gotta love that simplified form of that Dartmouth basic.
SimpleIDE was never an attempt to "play catch up with arduino". It's been said before so maybe my saying "No, that's really not the case..." isn't going to be entirely believable. So here is some history to substantiate.
SimpleIDE's original intent and use was for testing Propeller GCC. Jazzed made it to broaden the test base beyond developers, each of whom seemed to either be using the command line, automating it, or integrating it into their toolchain of choice.
After our experience with developing and supporting the Boe-Shield Bot (our popular Boe-Bot Robot with an Arduino + Board of Education Shield in place of the BASIC Stamp + Board of Education), our education group all held your same sentiment, that the BASIC Stamp 2 is the best for beginners. Be that as it may, we couldn't ignore the increasing number of requests from educators for an education program for the Propeller that uses something in the C language constellation.
So, as a test, we developed a C library that contained the "P" part of PBASIC -functions like high, low, pause, pulsein, pulseout, shiftin, shiftout, and all the other elements that, combined with BASIC, made the BASIC Stamp such a pleasure to use. We then tested the library (named simpletools) with groups of teachers using SimpleIDE, and verified that those same elements available in C allowed them and their students to get creative with a minimal learning curve.
The teachers also provided us with important feedback about that early incarnation of SimpleIDE. That incarnation had file menus and buttons and required an awareness project vs. file. It also required multiple steps to incorporate a library that was not part of Propeller GCC. The most common request was that it be easy to use and straightforward like the BASIC Stamp Editor. (Actually, it was more like "I can't use this in my classroom until you provide software that behaves more like the BASIC Stamp Editor.")
As a side note: SimpleIDE's developer Jazzzed graciously made the trip to observe one of these courses, and then put in a Herculean effort on a very tight budget to make it so. He also put in some extra work to make sure that people on this thread still had their original SimpleIDE features available, and personally, I think he deserves a lot more recognition and kudos than he's gotten for all that.
...Well, yes, I always thought that was the idea behind it. And have long since complained that SimpleIDE was diverging from that simplicity .... the IDE should be as simple to use as the Arduino IDE or Prop Tool.
After writing educational textbooks on all three platforms (Examples: BASIC Stamp, Arduino, Propeller) that also instruct on the use of all three software packages, I can tell you from experience that all three software packages fit into the same category when it comes to ease of use.
Thank you for your comment. It provides some insight that I didn't previously have.
It's very clear that Parallax and jazzed developed SimpleIDE with a specific target in mind, and it sounds like that target audience is quite pleased with the result.
And though I may have my nitpicking complaints, I do not mean to undermine the amazing work that jazzed put into it. It is stunning what he was able to create from scratch. The same goes for PropGCC and its authors.
I think the problem lies in how the community interprets and Parallax defines "support." Parallax has stated here on the forums and implied via learn.parallax.com that C is a supported language on the Propeller, so we can all agree on that. But maybe Parallax can be a little more forthcoming with how they define "supported" and what they're doing/willing to do if that support is not met. The community is wanting expecting more than what is currently available, but with jazzed gone and PropGCC development at a standstill (1 commit in the last 6 months), there is no progress.
Thanks SwimDude0614, ...and kudos to you too for PropWare! I just visited the page, and am now trying to move some things around in my schedule so that I can try it out.
I'd probably be overstepping my bounds to reply on the "support" question and Propeller GCC progress. Let me either find out or have someone else post on that.
In the meantime, it's definitely safe to say that Parallax welcomes and appreciates (probably more than most folks realize) community contributions. I personally assumed that a community "by developers for developers" tool for Propeller GCC would have appeared and gained general acceptance long before now. More than one solution has been published, but none seem to have been embraced as the toolchain of choice yet. So, I'm looking forward to seeing your SimpleIDE fork evolves.
I personally assumed that a community "by developers for developers" tool for Propeller GCC would have appeared and gained general acceptance long before now. More than one solution has been published, but none seem to have been embraced as the toolchain of choice yet. So, I'm looking forward to seeing your SimpleIDE fork evolves.
Andy
I think most developers already have tools they are familiar with and like using. In my case, I use BBEdit on the Mac and vi or gedit under Linux and command line tools to compile, link, load. I guess that's because I'm a geezer and can use command line tools without thinking. Younger forum members seem to need an IDE but, as you say, several have been started but none have been finished.
I personally assumed that a community "by developers for developers" tool for Propeller GCC would have appeared and gained general acceptance long before now. More than one solution has been published, but none seem to have been embraced as the toolchain of choice yet.
Some of that not "gained general acceptance" is due to name fragmentation.
One simple things others do with their IDEs is have plenty of examples, and have specific menus called GetExamples or similar
( seems you are close there "SimpleIDE comes with over 80 examples in its ...Documents/SimpleIDE/Learn/Examples/ folder.")
The other detail I've seen on other IDEs is they allow experienced users to reach the make files, and also allow the tools to point to an externally created Debug File.
That allows any tool chain to use the download and debug features, and allows the IDE to create a template build that can be pulled into other flows.
I'd like to see an official Parallax administrated library on Github that unifies the three main libraries. If Parallax were to do that then I would be willing to donate/support libpropeller's objects (including giving up naming).
Something like mraa and upm for the Intel Edison would be a good example of a company maintained library that has community contributions.
Comments
I think the SPIN compiler (openspin) is needed in SimpleIDE to include Spin files in a SimpleIDE C project inorder to take advantage of PASM that is in the Spin program. I used that to make a PASM SPI driver and library for SimpleIDE C from the SPIPASM.spin object that is in the PropTool and PropIDE library. I also used that method to take the Tonyp12 1 pin 17 segment LED driver for the PPDB and convert it to a SimpleIDE C library.
By the way I did not update my version of SimpleIDE to the 1.0 version since I felt the previous version works better.
Maybe there should be a "VerySimpleIDE" for the education department and "SimpleIDE" for those of us who don't want to use a command line compiler.
Tom
https://www.parallax.com/product/32230
What I would like to see is a propeller HAT with the switching power supply from the project board, as well as a much larger breadboard area than the current propeller HAT.
As far as SimpleIDE goes, SwimDude has the right idea: open up the build system of SimpleIDE so we can customize the build process when our needs exceed the Simple concept. This way Parallax can focus on the education aspect of it they do so well, and there is a bridge to power use later on.
I never used SimpleIDE because it was too limiting compared to Make files, and now it seems some don't want to use it because trying to support all the myriad cases within the GUI makes it not so simple anymore.
I think having SimpleIDE create a simple make file that calls user make files at strategic points (all of which is invisible to anyone that doesn't need it) is the simple, powerful compromise solution.
You need to also select "Set Project View" from the tools menu to see the other File menu options...
Once Set Project View has been selected, the File menu will contain 'more' options...
A lot of hard work went into SimpleIDE... Jazzed was always open to adding features that made sense, while staying within SimpleIDE's project confines as requested by Parallax. As Jeff Martin has stated, the book on SimpleIDE has not been closed and it will get refreshed for the new world of wireless uploads and other features.
Some of the issues that folks are seeing have to do with the difficulty of trying to keep the code as OS-agnostic as possible (i.e. WIN COM ports versus Linux/Mac OS X dev ports). The port-handling code is open-source (I believe) and probably should get some attention. Another issue came about after the RaspberryPi variant became available and users wanted to use the RPi's GPIOs rather than a USB connection that was common within the sources. Another issue for future releases.
So, it's good to bring these issues up... But, it's also good to include enough information to allow debugging of the issue. What version of SimpleIDE? Running on what OS? What OS variant (Debian, Ubuntu, etc...). What OS version (OS X-10.10.5, Debian-Jessie, etc...). Attach images of what you are seeing as that really assists the diagnosis. Did you build your own SimpleIDE? What branch from GitHub (propside, qt-side, etc...) or code.google.com/? These are all good things to assist the process.
Personally, stating what I remember from months (years?) ago is only helpful to a point. It's all kinda foggy looking back. Re-testing with recent app versions on your current OS version may reveal some fixes as well as good fodder for critical review :-)
dgately
Now, a new discovery, I guess the Apple guys are getting what dgately has described, while us Windows guys must be getting the left overs.
I have been making my comments based on SimpleIDE Windows 1.0 RC2 12-29-2014. I just did some of the steps that dgately has described, and us(making a big assumption here) Windows people do not have what he is showing. If somebody is going to do a new Windows installation, of SimpleIDE, I think I saw something come up, asking about making it a Project View version, or something like that, I wonder if things change then.
At this point if you install a normal Windows SimpleIDE session, the only thing that you have is the icon at the bottom left that switches you back and forth between Simple View and Project View. And, I also tried doing a compile in both Simple View and Project View, there was no binary file to be found. Just to be clear, on the Windows version, when switching to the Project View, it did not show any new choices in the 'File' selection.
So, dgately, I am not sure what version you are working with, but us Windows people are not getting what you have.
I am also starting another project on my Raspberry Pi, which I will be using SimpleIDE. As soon as I have it installed I will check it out to see how different that is from the Windows and Apple versions.
Ray
Ray
I originally thought that the idea behind SimpleIDE was that it was "simple".
From an educational perspective, put in front of people who may never have programmed anything before and are new to the real world interfacing of micro-controllers, I thought it would be a case of: write code, hit run, see it work. Or not
Same as the Arduino IDE but using a Propeller.
Jazzed has done a brilliant job on SimpileIDE, but it has long since diverged from what I thought it was supposed to be.
Those of us who can wield make files and worry about external memory are another breed.
Go to Tools -> Properties, then choose the "General" tab. Click the "View Mode" checkbox on the lower right.
Then go to Tools -> Set Project View (this option is enabled by the above checkbox).
I can confirm that this does indeed work on Windows.
Jason
Page 11 in the Users Guide. I think SimpleIDE already does that with the icon at the bottom left.:-) I guess they really do not want the beginners messing with that, could the description be anymore terse?
Now I am wondering how simpletools.h will work when you are in the Project View?
Once you are in the real Project View, I guess SimpleIDE is not that simple anymore. Maybe this is the View that Heater. is complaining about? To credit Parallax, they did a very good job of concealing it, maybe they should just hide the other "Project View", and then when you click the View checkbox, one or the other goes away.
Ray
My forked repo has also been converted to CMake, so you can give it a shot in CLion (free licenses for OpenSource projects btw).
https://github.com/DavidZemon/propside
I know this will force me to do fix my own forked repo... but yes please.
Well said and I think it's in keeping with the spirit of the propeller.
As I mentioned, I am using version 1.0.2 - RC2. Mac or Windows, the options are the same...
Looks like Jason affirmed that once the Properties were set for the View Mode option, that you should now see more options on Windows, correct?
For Raspberry Pi, I'm not sure if the released Simple IDE is the same version as for Mac, Windows, or x86Linux releases of the app. Options might differ.
dgately
I also had a chance to install SimpleIDE for the RPi, again. Well, the biggest pain with that version, is the very annoying, no com port available, when in fact you have your Propeller device attached. On my setup you have keep repeating the Run instruction until SimpleIDE decides that there is a com port available, this is a very annoying feature.:-) And since this is version 0-9-45, simpletools.h is very out of date, maybe I should just think of this as Simple View Lite. Well, I guess the good thing about this version is, I do not have to go through to many contortions to get to the real Project View.
Ray
I never realized it was to support X number of various programming tools all which have seemingly major deficiencies.
I don't know how that plays into a business model.
I don't really like to compare the Arduino to the Propeller. They are such very different things. But if we accept the demand for C on the Propeller and if we follow the demand for C on the Propeller for educational purposes then it made sense to me that the IDE should be as simple to use as the Arduino IDE or Prop Tool.
SimpleIDE comes with over 80 examples in its ...Documents/SimpleIDE/Learn/Examples/ folder. They cover a wide range of topics from programming and circuit basics to device communication and multicore approaches. Most of those examples are documented in the learn.parallax.com site's Propeller C Tutorials, and the learn site also has a variety of additional projects above and beyond those that come with the software.
None of that requires Google Drive, nor have we ever published any examples that require you to install Google Drive. ...at least not intentionally, so if there is something in SimpleIDE or one of our downloads that's telling you install Google Drive, we'll correct that. So, could you please explain the steps we can follow to get to that message?
SimpleIDE was never an attempt to "play catch up with arduino". It's been said before so maybe my saying "No, that's really not the case..." isn't going to be entirely believable. So here is some history to substantiate.
SimpleIDE's original intent and use was for testing Propeller GCC. Jazzed made it to broaden the test base beyond developers, each of whom seemed to either be using the command line, automating it, or integrating it into their toolchain of choice.
After our experience with developing and supporting the Boe-Shield Bot (our popular Boe-Bot Robot with an Arduino + Board of Education Shield in place of the BASIC Stamp + Board of Education), our education group all held your same sentiment, that the BASIC Stamp 2 is the best for beginners. Be that as it may, we couldn't ignore the increasing number of requests from educators for an education program for the Propeller that uses something in the C language constellation.
So, as a test, we developed a C library that contained the "P" part of PBASIC -functions like high, low, pause, pulsein, pulseout, shiftin, shiftout, and all the other elements that, combined with BASIC, made the BASIC Stamp such a pleasure to use. We then tested the library (named simpletools) with groups of teachers using SimpleIDE, and verified that those same elements available in C allowed them and their students to get creative with a minimal learning curve.
The teachers also provided us with important feedback about that early incarnation of SimpleIDE. That incarnation had file menus and buttons and required an awareness project vs. file. It also required multiple steps to incorporate a library that was not part of Propeller GCC. The most common request was that it be easy to use and straightforward like the BASIC Stamp Editor. (Actually, it was more like "I can't use this in my classroom until you provide software that behaves more like the BASIC Stamp Editor.")
As a side note: SimpleIDE's developer Jazzzed graciously made the trip to observe one of these courses, and then put in a Herculean effort on a very tight budget to make it so. He also put in some extra work to make sure that people on this thread still had their original SimpleIDE features available, and personally, I think he deserves a lot more recognition and kudos than he's gotten for all that.
Andy
After writing educational textbooks on all three platforms (Examples: BASIC Stamp, Arduino, Propeller) that also instruct on the use of all three software packages, I can tell you from experience that all three software packages fit into the same category when it comes to ease of use.
Andy
Thank you for your comment. It provides some insight that I didn't previously have.
It's very clear that Parallax and jazzed developed SimpleIDE with a specific target in mind, and it sounds like that target audience is quite pleased with the result.
And though I may have my nitpicking complaints, I do not mean to undermine the amazing work that jazzed put into it. It is stunning what he was able to create from scratch. The same goes for PropGCC and its authors.
I think the problem lies in how the community interprets and Parallax defines "support." Parallax has stated here on the forums and implied via learn.parallax.com that C is a supported language on the Propeller, so we can all agree on that. But maybe Parallax can be a little more forthcoming with how they define "supported" and what they're doing/willing to do if that support is not met. The community is wanting expecting more than what is currently available, but with jazzed gone and PropGCC development at a standstill (1 commit in the last 6 months), there is no progress.
I'd probably be overstepping my bounds to reply on the "support" question and Propeller GCC progress. Let me either find out or have someone else post on that.
In the meantime, it's definitely safe to say that Parallax welcomes and appreciates (probably more than most folks realize) community contributions. I personally assumed that a community "by developers for developers" tool for Propeller GCC would have appeared and gained general acceptance long before now. More than one solution has been published, but none seem to have been embraced as the toolchain of choice yet. So, I'm looking forward to seeing your SimpleIDE fork evolves.
Andy
One simple things others do with their IDEs is have plenty of examples, and have specific menus called GetExamples or similar
( seems you are close there "SimpleIDE comes with over 80 examples in its ...Documents/SimpleIDE/Learn/Examples/ folder.")
The other detail I've seen on other IDEs is they allow experienced users to reach the make files, and also allow the tools to point to an externally created Debug File.
That allows any tool chain to use the download and debug features, and allows the IDE to create a template build that can be pulled into other flows.
Something like mraa and upm for the Intel Edison would be a good example of a company maintained library that has community contributions.
https://github.com/intel-iot-devkit/mraa
For me to use the Propeller would require something like that.