I ported my C sample to Spin to prove to myself that it worked, and it didn't. Turns out one of the methods on my object was broken, and I was using that one in my test case. It's all working now, and all the grief here was my own. Using PASM code from a Spin file does indeed appear to be quite painless. I'm going to keep working on it tonight and I'll post progress as I make it.
Oh yeah, the SimpleIDE source is a bit hairy scary.
To be fair there is only one 8000 line file, all the rest are quite reasonable. The big one is the main editor control so we might expect it to be big. If it had comments it would be 16000 lines according to some coding standards I have worked to. That would be much worse!
Anyway the qt5 branch did build here on Debian Jessie without hitch.
Some obvious build instructions would be nice. A README.md say.
A wish it would build itself into a package that did not carry all or prop-gcc around.
I ported my C sample to Spin to prove to myself that it worked, and it didn't. Turns out one of the methods on my object was broken, and I was using that one in my test case. It's all working now, and all the grief here was my own. Using PASM code from a Spin file does indeed appear to be quite painless. I'm going to keep working on it tonight and I'll post progress as I make it.
Thats great to hear! If you have further questions, we'll try to answer them between unrelated gripes and moans :P
Oh yeah, the SimpleIDE source is a bit hairy scary.
To be fair there is only one 8000 line file, all the rest are quite reasonable. The big one is the main editor control so we might expect it to be big. If it had comments it would be 16000 lines according to some coding standards I have worked to. That would be much worse!
Anyway the qt5 branch did build here on Debian Jessie without hitch.
Some obvious build instructions would be nice. A README.md say.
If you write one, I'll commit it to github.
A wish it would build itself into a package that did not carry all or prop-gcc around.
At the moment, SimpleIDE is the only way that Parallax distributes PropGCC. There is no command line package that I know of.
The SimpleIDE User Guide talks about various options that are supposed to be in the File menu - but all I see is Close All, Print and Exit. This is true for both my locally compiled version and the official debian from Parallax. Anyone else have this issue? Running Ubuntu 15.10 with Qt 4.8
The SimpleIDE User Guide talks about various options that are supposed to be in the File menu - but all I see is Close All, Print and Exit. This is true for both my locally compiled version and the official debian from Parallax. Anyone else have this issue? Running Ubuntu 15.10 with Qt 4.8
Do you need to enable some sort of "expert mode" to get those other options? I know Parallax was trying to simplify the default mode for students. Maybe some of those options are only available in a more advanced mode?
Everybody should be aware that SimpleIDE has two views, Simple View and a Project View. Simple View has the least amount of options that you could use, basically create a project and then compile it. If you want more options to work with, you would use the Project View.
Do you need to enable some sort of "expert mode" to get those other options? I know Parallax was trying to simplify the default mode for students. Maybe some of those options are only available in a more advanced mode?
Yes, we needed to simplify it because of many beginner confusions in courses. The other features are still there, you just first need to go to Tools > Properties > General, click on the "View Mode" checkbox, then click OK. After that, the Tools menu has a new option at the top, "Set Project View."
I'm late to this thread, so you probably already know this, but just in case:
The news of SimpleIDE's death has been greatly exaggerated. SimpleIDE is not dead. We've moved the SimpleIDE repository (propside) to our GitHub account for further maintenance.
I've turned on Project Mode (button in bottom-left of window) and ensure the "View Mode" button is checked. File menu still contains only three options in it.
I've turned on Project Mode (button in bottom-left of window) and ensure the "View Mode" button is checked. File menu still contains only three options in it.
Did you do that while sprinkling chicken blood on your keyboard?
I've turned on Project Mode (button in bottom-left of window) and ensure the "View Mode" button is checked. File menu still contains only three options in it.
Did you do that while sprinkling chicken blood on your keyboard?
I'm afraid I don't slaughter my own chickens, and therefore have no chicken blood
Ah, yes, the User Guide was not updated. It used to have things like Open file, New file, that have been removed. It also use to have a gearbox icon, you could start a new C file, and then have the gearbox icon create a project out of that. Plus it would have been nice if they had the option to just compile the file, and run it, if you wanted.
It seems that Parallax got rid of all the good stuff. I guess they do not want to confuse the beginners, with all the cool stuff. But then I guess it would not be a simple IDE anymore, if they left all that other stuff in there. But, it is to late for all that, what is done is done.
Ah, yes, the User Guide was not updated. It used to have things like Open file, New file, that have been removed. It also use to have a gearbox icon, you could start a new C file, and then have the gearbox icon create a project out of that. Plus it would have been nice if they had the option to just compile the file, and run it, if you wanted.
It seems that Parallax got rid of all the good stuff. I guess they do not want to confuse the beginners, with all the cool stuff. But then I guess it would not be a simple IDE anymore, if they left all that other stuff in there. But, it is to late for all that, what is done is done.
Ray
So I'm not crazy? I don't just have a buggy build? There really is no "new file" button?!
Ah, yes, the User Guide was not updated. It used to have things like Open file, New file, that have been removed. It also use to have a gearbox icon, you could start a new C file, and then have the gearbox icon create a project out of that. Plus it would have been nice if they had the option to just compile the file, and run it, if you wanted.
It seems that Parallax got rid of all the good stuff. I guess they do not want to confuse the beginners, with all the cool stuff. But then I guess it would not be a simple IDE anymore, if they left all that other stuff in there. But, it is to late for all that, what is done is done.
Ray
So I'm not crazy? I don't just have a buggy build? There really is no "new file" button?!
Why would you need a new file? What's wrong with the old one? :-)
Ah, yes, the User Guide was not updated. It used to have things like Open file, New file, that have been removed. It also use to have a gearbox icon, you could start a new C file, and then have the gearbox icon create a project out of that. Plus it would have been nice if they had the option to just compile the file, and run it, if you wanted.
It seems that Parallax got rid of all the good stuff. I guess they do not want to confuse the beginners, with all the cool stuff. But then I guess it would not be a simple IDE anymore, if they left all that other stuff in there. But, it is to late for all that, what is done is done.
Ray
So I'm not crazy? I don't just have a buggy build? There really is no "new file" button?!
Why would you need a new file? What's wrong with the old one? :-)
Ah, yes, the User Guide was not updated. It used to have things like Open file, New file, that have been removed. It also use to have a gearbox icon, you could start a new C file, and then have the gearbox icon create a project out of that. Plus it would have been nice if they had the option to just compile the file, and run it, if you wanted.
It seems that Parallax got rid of all the good stuff. I guess they do not want to confuse the beginners, with all the cool stuff. But then I guess it would not be a simple IDE anymore, if they left all that other stuff in there. But, it is to late for all that, what is done is done.
Ray
So I'm not crazy? I don't just have a buggy build? There really is no "new file" button?!
Why would you need a new file? What's wrong with the old one? :-)
SimpleIDE may not be dead, but it seems the name struggles to survive.
Surely this should still be called SimpleIDEx.y, if that is what it is ?!
Are you complaining that the repository is called "propside" but the product is called "SimpleIDE"? I think Parallax renamed it when they made it an official Parallax product. Steve gave it its original name and that is where the repository name came from.
If SimpleIDE comes back to life, maybe the version for the Raspberry Pi can be fixed, so SimpleIDE could program a Propeller board via the AMA0 port. The way it is now, it can only program via a USB (ttyUSBx) port hook up.
If SimpleIDE comes back to life, maybe the version for the Raspberry Pi can be fixed, so SimpleIDE could program a Propeller board via the AMA0 port. The way it is now, it can only program via a USB (ttyUSBx) port hook up.
Ray
I don't think it's a matter of SimpleIDE coming back to life. As far as I know, it is heavily used right now by the Parallax education department.
SimpleIDE no longer produces a binary file along with .side file, it used to, but, no longer. I guess they do not want the beginners, getting all confused with binary files. I am not sure about this, but I do not believe that SimpleIDE can load a binary file.
I am now starting to think that maybe Parallax should unbolt Spin, and then the Project View from SimpleIDE. By keeping the expectations low, maybe they will attract more beginners, strictly my theory though. Oh, I forgot one other thing, get rid of the XMM, who needs that anymore.
Do what? I have to fire this all up and see what goes on now a days. There must be a binary somewhere else you can't load and start a Prop.
I agree, Spin should be removed. Along with anything else that stops SimpleIDE being "simple". Including XMM, does anyone actually use that with SimpleIDE?
@keith
...why does it matter if you can't use AMA0?
With AMA0 you can connect a Prop to a Pi, pin to pin, no USB adapter required. This is neat if you want to put a Prop on an expansion board for the Pi. A "Hat".
Quite why Parallax does not sell such a Hat is beyond me given the 6 million Pi out there!
SimpleIDE no longer produces a binary file along with .side file, it used to, but, no longer. I guess they do not want the beginners, getting all confused with binary files. I am not sure about this, but I do not believe that SimpleIDE can load a binary file.
I am now starting to think that maybe Parallax should unbolt Spin, and then the Project View from SimpleIDE. By keeping the expectations low, maybe they will attract more beginners, strictly my theory though. Oh, I forgot one other thing, get rid of the XMM, who needs that anymore.
Ray
I guess Parallax will have to respond to this one since I don't know what audience(s) they intend to target with SimpleIDE. Certainly things could be simplified by getting rid of "board types" which are mostly there to support XMM. As much as XMM greatly expands the number of applications that can be run on the Propeller, it does seem that Parallax has no real intention of supporting it. If that is true, it could certainly be removed from SimpleIDE.
Indeed! Seems a good fit, but maybe a resource problem.
Seems to me, after reading this discussion, the struggle is optimizing for two things:
1. Education use cases
2. Other use cases.
Both find "easy" or "simple" compelling, but what "easy" and "simple" actually mean varies considerably.
It may make sense to setup a build system for use with various other editors / IDE systems out there and maximize that for the non-education use cases. It can be "easy" and "simple" yet handle fairly complex uses too. That runs in conflict with the limited focus education often benefits from.
Indeed! Seems a good fit, but maybe a resource problem.
Seems to me, after reading this discussion, the struggle is optimizing for two things:
1. Education use cases
2. Other use cases.
Both find "easy" or "simple" compelling, but what "easy" and "simple" actually mean varies considerably.
It may make sense to setup a build system for use with various other editors / IDE systems out there and maximize that for the non-education use cases. It can be "easy" and "simple" yet handle fairly complex uses too. That runs in conflict with the limited focus education often benefits from.
I feel very strongly that a solution can be had easily here. For education uses, you want the most brain-dead simple thing possible. One executable installation file that sets up a computer to program a Propeller. SimpleIDE currently fits that bill.
The second solution doesn't have to be mutually exclusive with the first. If SimpleIDE exposes its build system - whether that be Makefiles, CMake or something else - then other programs can pick up where SimpleIDE's functionality stops.
As a student, SimpleIDE will provide everything that is ever needed. As a power user, SimpleIDE lays the groundwork for complex and professional development: a compiler and the command line tools necessary for flexible builds.
I hope to make this happen with PropWare as the backing build system of course, but if others have ideas or see holes in my plan, let me know.
Comments
Oh yeah, the SimpleIDE source is a bit hairy scary.
To be fair there is only one 8000 line file, all the rest are quite reasonable. The big one is the main editor control so we might expect it to be big. If it had comments it would be 16000 lines according to some coding standards I have worked to. That would be much worse!
Anyway the qt5 branch did build here on Debian Jessie without hitch.
Some obvious build instructions would be nice. A README.md say.
A wish it would build itself into a package that did not carry all or prop-gcc around.
Thats great to hear! If you have further questions, we'll try to answer them between unrelated gripes and moans :P
Ray
Yes, we needed to simplify it because of many beginner confusions in courses. The other features are still there, you just first need to go to Tools > Properties > General, click on the "View Mode" checkbox, then click OK. After that, the Tools menu has a new option at the top, "Set Project View."
The news of SimpleIDE's death has been greatly exaggerated. SimpleIDE is not dead. We've moved the SimpleIDE repository (propside) to our GitHub account for further maintenance.
https://github.com/parallaxinc/propside
We are working on adding Wi-Fi programming support soon (for the Propeller Activity Board WX) and will be looking into some other issues as well.
I'm afraid I don't slaughter my own chickens, and therefore have no chicken blood
I just tried cranberry juice and it didn't help.
It seems that Parallax got rid of all the good stuff. I guess they do not want to confuse the beginners, with all the cool stuff. But then I guess it would not be a simple IDE anymore, if they left all that other stuff in there. But, it is to late for all that, what is done is done.
Ray
So I'm not crazy? I don't just have a buggy build? There really is no "new file" button?!
I spilled cranberry juice on it
touché
SimpleIDE may not be dead, but it seems the name struggles to survive.
Surely this should still be called SimpleIDEx.y, if that is what it is ?!
Ray
If you can get SimpleIDE to generate binaries on the Pi then you can download them over /dev/AMA0 using my pi-propeller-load https://github.com/ZiCog/pi-propeller-load
At least if they are not using external memory.
I believe the loader changes I made have found their way into later versions of prop-gcc although I have never tested that.
All it needs is to use SimpleIDE with a later prop-gcc, hopefully.
Rsadeika, why does it matter if you can't use AMA0?
I am now starting to think that maybe Parallax should unbolt Spin, and then the Project View from SimpleIDE. By keeping the expectations low, maybe they will attract more beginners, strictly my theory though. Oh, I forgot one other thing, get rid of the XMM, who needs that anymore.
Ray
Do what? I have to fire this all up and see what goes on now a days. There must be a binary somewhere else you can't load and start a Prop.
I agree, Spin should be removed. Along with anything else that stops SimpleIDE being "simple". Including XMM, does anyone actually use that with SimpleIDE?
@keith With AMA0 you can connect a Prop to a Pi, pin to pin, no USB adapter required. This is neat if you want to put a Prop on an expansion board for the Pi. A "Hat".
Quite why Parallax does not sell such a Hat is beyond me given the 6 million Pi out there!
Seems to me, after reading this discussion, the struggle is optimizing for two things:
1. Education use cases
2. Other use cases.
Both find "easy" or "simple" compelling, but what "easy" and "simple" actually mean varies considerably.
It may make sense to setup a build system for use with various other editors / IDE systems out there and maximize that for the non-education use cases. It can be "easy" and "simple" yet handle fairly complex uses too. That runs in conflict with the limited focus education often benefits from.
I feel very strongly that a solution can be had easily here. For education uses, you want the most brain-dead simple thing possible. One executable installation file that sets up a computer to program a Propeller. SimpleIDE currently fits that bill.
The second solution doesn't have to be mutually exclusive with the first. If SimpleIDE exposes its build system - whether that be Makefiles, CMake or something else - then other programs can pick up where SimpleIDE's functionality stops.
As a student, SimpleIDE will provide everything that is ever needed. As a power user, SimpleIDE lays the groundwork for complex and professional development: a compiler and the command line tools necessary for flexible builds.
I hope to make this happen with PropWare as the backing build system of course, but if others have ideas or see holes in my plan, let me know.