I just opened a ticket at LMR, asking them to remove my content from their site, because I don't accept their "new" terms of service. :skull: We will see if they comply with my request.
LMR complied with my request on September 25, 2015 9:25 AM.
TOS: I agree to grant Robot Shop Inc. “a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, unrestricted, transferable worldwide license to reproduce, modify (to the extent permitted under Section 1.9 below), perform, and publicly display your User Content on LMR’s website or other site owned or controlled by RobotShop
You have a really cool website! I know not many people click on links in a person's sig -- including myself. But yours is definitely worth the effort to explore. Thanks for publishing it here!
As it happens I'm literally just starting my new site more geared toward teaching middle schoolers and high schoolers than college kids like my consultkeithyoung site.
Hopefully I can find the time to add more stuff there, but for now the focus is changing to the new site which should end up in my sig soon enough.
I've had no exposure to Let's Make Robots until this kerfuffle came about, so I can't comment on specifics of its latest developments. But this and other events have led me to some general conclusions:
1. The vibrancy and sustainability of any community -- online or otherwise -- is in direct proportion to its diversity.
2. Diversity arises through an evolutionary process, wherein members are given free rein to pursue their projects and exchange their ideas.
3. The result of this process is akin to a climax forest, a self-sustaining mega-culture that's able to thrive on its own, even when threatened by invasive species and noxious weeds.
4. Enter the tree farmer. He likes Douglas firs to the exclusion of other plants. So he begins spraying broad-leaf herbicides to rid the forest of non-fir species, hoping that only the Douglas firs will multiply. What he ends up with is a sparse, boring mono-culture of a single species that requires his constant attention to maintain.
5. Without that constant attention, bark beetles invade the tree farm, and the trees slowly die.
Now reel back a couple steps:
4. Enter the conservationist. He respects the forest's diversity and wants to help it thrive. So he takes steps to improve the habitats enjoyed by its various species. Invasive plants that threaten the forest's health are dealt with gently and individually, rather than with blanket spraying, so as not to disturb the balance that evolution has fostered.
5. Left to its devices, the forest continues to thrive with but a little attention from the conservationist.
There are good reasons for "managing" a community of people -- or trees, for that matter. But it has to done with a light touch; otherwise "directed evolution" becomes coercion, and you end up with a boring, unsustainable mono-culture of "true believers." Social experiments (some might be called cults) come and go. And they tend to go more quickly the less diverse they are allowed to become.
Human communities are rambunctious and messy. That's what makes them interesting.
Many of us former LMR members are members of both sites.
This has been an extremely strange experience. According to RobotShop's "story" the site's collapse was strongly influenced by former members spreading false stories on social media. (Is the Parallax forum considered "social media"?) I hope it's clear I don't agree with RS's version of the story.
I found many parts of the story problematic but only pointed out some of the major issues I had with it. It would take much more time than I'd like to spend listing all the problems I see in RobotShop's version of the story.
Make sure and check out my apple picking "robot" post at the new site. I couldn't figure out how it applied to Parallax stuff so I didn't post details here.
Long live the rebellion! and it looks like just anyone is welcome to join in.
None of that "Yuh aint frum aroun har, arh yuh?..." stuff going on.
Excellent replies, Duane. everything happens for a reason. Now we have two brand new Robot sites to enjoy,
and LMR will eventually be recovering from this staggering blow after a while, But not too long I hope.
Comments
You really need to stop poking the hornet's nest.
LMR complied with my request on September 25, 2015 9:25 AM.
A lot of people not happy with new rules will be at robotrebels.org.
The change in ownership just hit hackaday.
Mario: Contrary to popular belief, there IS such thing as bad PR.
http://hackaday.com/2015/09/25/lets-make-robots-changes-hands-kerfuffle-ensues/
What are you guys smoking up there at Robotshop?
TOS: I agree to grant Robot Shop Inc. “a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, unrestricted, transferable worldwide license to reproduce, modify (to the extent permitted under Section 1.9 below), perform, and publicly display your User Content on LMR’s website or other site owned or controlled by RobotShop
Still hope this gets resolved for everyone but it's not looking good for the new owners.
You have a really cool website! I know not many people click on links in a person's sig -- including myself. But yours is definitely worth the effort to explore. Thanks for publishing it here!
-Phil
As it happens I'm literally just starting my new site more geared toward teaching middle schoolers and high schoolers than college kids like my consultkeithyoung site.
Hopefully I can find the time to add more stuff there, but for now the focus is changing to the new site which should end up in my sig soon enough.
Red Green, Canadian comedian
http://hackaday.com/2015/09/25/lets-make-robots-changes-hands-kerfuffle-ensues/comment-page-1/#comment-2733169
I replied to their reply.
Duane,
You should have told them how you really felt.
I hope this thing works itself out.
1. The vibrancy and sustainability of any community -- online or otherwise -- is in direct proportion to its diversity.
2. Diversity arises through an evolutionary process, wherein members are given free rein to pursue their projects and exchange their ideas.
3. The result of this process is akin to a climax forest, a self-sustaining mega-culture that's able to thrive on its own, even when threatened by invasive species and noxious weeds.
4. Enter the tree farmer. He likes Douglas firs to the exclusion of other plants. So he begins spraying broad-leaf herbicides to rid the forest of non-fir species, hoping that only the Douglas firs will multiply. What he ends up with is a sparse, boring mono-culture of a single species that requires his constant attention to maintain.
5. Without that constant attention, bark beetles invade the tree farm, and the trees slowly die.
Now reel back a couple steps:
4. Enter the conservationist. He respects the forest's diversity and wants to help it thrive. So he takes steps to improve the habitats enjoyed by its various species. Invasive plants that threaten the forest's health are dealt with gently and individually, rather than with blanket spraying, so as not to disturb the balance that evolution has fostered.
5. Left to its devices, the forest continues to thrive with but a little attention from the conservationist.
There are good reasons for "managing" a community of people -- or trees, for that matter. But it has to done with a light touch; otherwise "directed evolution" becomes coercion, and you end up with a boring, unsustainable mono-culture of "true believers." Social experiments (some might be called cults) come and go. And they tend to go more quickly the less diverse they are allowed to become.
Human communities are rambunctious and messy. That's what makes them interesting.
-Phil
P.S. My dermatologist never called it "bark beetle" but I'll go with that since this is a family friendly forum!
I suppose the crater is being filled and things are sort of working out.
Two new sites have emerged from the ashes (okay, former members) of LMR.
The members rebelling against the new owners now reside at:
http://www.robotrebels.org/
And since many of those desiring a family friendly site didn't want to continue under the new management of LMR, they set up the kid friendly:
http://coolkidsrobots.com/
Many of us former LMR members are members of both sites.
This has been an extremely strange experience. According to RobotShop's "story" the site's collapse was strongly influenced by former members spreading false stories on social media. (Is the Parallax forum considered "social media"?) I hope it's clear I don't agree with RS's version of the story.
I found many parts of the story problematic but only pointed out some of the major issues I had with it. It would take much more time than I'd like to spend listing all the problems I see in RobotShop's version of the story.
Make sure and check out my apple picking "robot" post at the new site. I couldn't figure out how it applied to Parallax stuff so I didn't post details here.
http://www.robotrebels.org/index.php?topic=64.0
Next year I'll add a servo or two and make it a real robot.
Long story short, if you want kids under 13 on your site you have to get parents permission for blah blah blah.
I wonder how hard it would have been to have had a kids subforum and just sort of avoid this whole mess they created. Oh well.
None of that "Yuh aint frum aroun har, arh yuh?..." stuff going on.
Excellent replies, Duane. everything happens for a reason. Now we have two brand new Robot sites to enjoy,
and LMR will eventually be recovering from this staggering blow after a while, But not too long I hope.
-Tommy