Change of Ownership at Let's Make Robots
Duane Degn
Posts: 10,588
RobotShop purchased Let's Make Robots a few weeks ago.
Here's the press release.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/letsmakerobots/robotshop/prweb12932558.htm
I figured things wouldn't be the same under new management but I could have never guessed how dramatically the place would change.
I won't try to summarize the drama that unfolded since I don't want to make it one sided and I don't want to spend the time trying to relate a balanced story. The threads showing what lead up to the mass bannings have been deleted (by RS).
The result of these contentions is lots of the long time contributors to the site have been banned blocked. The large list of banned blocked (edit: Apparently there is a difference between being banned and being blocked. Either way I couldn't log in. Only Chris the Carpenter remained blocked as of Sept. 21) individuals includes the Frits Lyneborg who started LMR , Chris the Carpenter (also a member here) and myself.
It's been a surreal experience to see how dramatically a site can change so quickly.
Edit: I'm much more upset by all of this now than I had originally been. RobotShop is now using content without permission from the content creators. Make sure and read the posts below for more information about what happened.
In addition to the people I mentioned earlier, at least three other (former) members of LMR who also belong to the Parallax forums have been banned blocked. (21 Sept., 2015) I don't know if content is being used without permission. I left some content in place as I voluntarily left.
Edit (20 Sept., 2015): I've received an apology from the new owners. My account is again active.
Edit (21 Sept., 2015): I let LMR know they can close my membership with them. They wanted me to remove this post but there were a lot of people wondering what the heck happened there. BTW, I still feel like I have done nothing wrong with regards to LMR. I don't see how I broke any rule and I think my description of events which took place is honest and without exaggeration.
Here's the press release.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/letsmakerobots/robotshop/prweb12932558.htm
I figured things wouldn't be the same under new management but I could have never guessed how dramatically the place would change.
I won't try to summarize the drama that unfolded since I don't want to make it one sided and I don't want to spend the time trying to relate a balanced story. The threads showing what lead up to the mass bannings have been deleted (by RS).
The result of these contentions is lots of the long time contributors to the site have been banned blocked. The large list of banned blocked (edit: Apparently there is a difference between being banned and being blocked. Either way I couldn't log in. Only Chris the Carpenter remained blocked as of Sept. 21) individuals includes the Frits Lyneborg who started LMR , Chris the Carpenter (also a member here) and myself.
It's been a surreal experience to see how dramatically a site can change so quickly.
Edit: I'm much more upset by all of this now than I had originally been. RobotShop is now using content without permission from the content creators. Make sure and read the posts below for more information about what happened.
In addition to the people I mentioned earlier, at least three other (former) members of LMR who also belong to the Parallax forums have been banned blocked. (21 Sept., 2015) I don't know if content is being used without permission. I left some content in place as I voluntarily left.
Edit (20 Sept., 2015): I've received an apology from the new owners. My account is again active.
Edit (21 Sept., 2015): I let LMR know they can close my membership with them. They wanted me to remove this post but there were a lot of people wondering what the heck happened there. BTW, I still feel like I have done nothing wrong with regards to LMR. I don't see how I broke any rule and I think my description of events which took place is honest and without exaggeration.
Comments
Mass banning and thread deletion was not the best opening move for the new owners of a LMR type of web site..
All good things must come to an end, I guess.
I was banned for removing my content.
Except Parallax, of course.
That looks pretty brutal. I can only imagine the next couple pages of these ostensibly old forum users and this julie.
webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pJzeuRxH86YJ:letsmakerobots.com/appropriate-lmr-usage+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
That was a bit before the storm.
I think it did illustrate what the new owners wanted to change.
As many of you know, I wrote a lengthy description of the events as I saw them. I've received an apology from LMR so I've removed much of this description. To their credit, they did not ask me to remove this. Edit (21 Sept., 2015): They did "ask" me to remove this post. I was told I was "unwilling to move forward". I think it fair to say my membership at LMR was contingent on removing this post.
Here's a very short version.
The new owners, RobotShop (RS) added a new rule about obscene language to LMR's list of rules. This rule was resented by some members at LMR who proceeded to swear up a storm in the SB. I personally thought this was to be expected and I thought some of them might be willing to accept the new rule. I had a hard time imagining why RS would want to pay LMR expenses if the site wasn't family friendly.
In response to the storm of bad language, the new owners closed the SB temporarily. I think this was the probably the largest contributor to the events which unfolded. Even though it was clearly stated the SB was only temporarily closed, the loss of the SB was very bothersome to many LMR members.
Many of us found the reply from the RS CEO to our complaints about the closure of the SB insulting. In protest to the actions being taken and the reply given, I removed my content from LMR. I then found I had been logged out from LMR and when I tried to log back in, I received a message indicating my account had been blocked.
People who were not opposed to the new rules were mad enough at RS for the way the SB had been closed (or the reply to our complaints) to remove their content. The removal of content caused the member to be banned (technically not banned, "blocked," but it felt the same as being banned). Now people who were not opposed to the new rules and who didn't care a whole lot about the SB being closed learned their friends had been banned blocked for removing their content (which is not against the rules). This made other members mad enough to remove their content which resulted in them getting banned blocked. It appeared to be some sort of catastrophic snowball effect.
I think it's safe to say the majority of the top content producers at LMR had left. Many of these members didn't object to the new rules but they did object to the way their friends were being treated.
Besides the content deleted by its members, there have been lots of deletions by RS. Almost all indications of the debate which took place have been removed from the site.
Last night, many hours after I had been banned blocked I received an email indicting I could return to LMR is I asked (I'm not sure if I have to say "pretty please" or not). Edit: I've since received an apology and my account is again active.
I'm very disappointed how this change in ownership/management of a site was handled.
Get together a few guys, one should be very well connected and liked by a BUNCH of the people from the forums before RS took over.
Start a new forum. It can be total Smile, just make sure you can smoothly transition your stuff when you upgrade.
Certainly one of you can find a way to host it. If not, there's a chance I could host it as a subdomain of my site (though that's not ideal).
Plus... Parallax has a Robotics forum! I only post here about stuff related to Parallax. Not sure what sort of stuff these LMR guys built. But hopefully they could enrich these forums.
and if Parallax wants I can delete this post as well.
A forum software change, rule changes, a clamp down on what can be said and when, users banned or at least threatened with banning, significant contributors disappearing or at least threatening to do so.
Luckily I think the worst scenario has been avoided here.
I could be totally wrong but I'm observing that:
a) Smart, creative, productive contributors to anything can be, shall we say, difficult.
b) The drive for "family friendly" and "politically correct" is at odds with such creativity.
What do we want? The rough and tumble of debate? Or the happy grins of the burger flippers?
I do hope I'm exaggerating in my evaluations here.
Just like Duane I also have been banned from LMR , for just placing blogs into draft mode.... not even one deletion.
Go figure.......
Highest regards to all....
Gareth
Just when I thought I couldn't be surprised again.
I really think the transition to "family friendly" could have been made. There were a lot of us not particular against the new rules, just the heavy handed way they were being enforced.
I have a shell of a forum setup.
I hope to see things repaired at LMR. LMR is/was a large community full of excellent projects. The regular memebers are suffering a loss. I wouldn't want to put anymore distance between them and people like LMR banned.
Hopefully it can get a spike in activity at Parallax
IMO, cameleon can neither spell nor transition a website properly. "LMR was going nowhere". Well he just fulfilled that prophecy.
I don't see how this isn't theft.
Okay, they're dead to me. Sorry Duane, that's not right at all.
I had thought they were just dumb in how they handled the transition. But this new action of putting up people's content without their permission strikes me as dishonest.
As I mentioned earlier, I would have welcomed the new rules. I'm still amazed how they managed to make so many in a community hate them so fast.
https://plus.google.com/+KevinChanCevinius/posts/SqFJBGmFX1T
https://plus.google.com/101568034070121687516/posts/1FPFmtamZYC
Don't stand for them putting YOUR content back up (if that's the case, maybe they own it?).
Plus I think you should usually be able to delete your own content. Crazy.
We are very sorry of the turn of events since we purchased Let's Make Robots. Our intention was to have a family friendly website where robotics enthusiasts of all ages could come learn about robotics and share robotics projects to other members. We were very surprised and it was incomprehensible for us that some members would not approve of this change and our desire to welcome everyone that is interested in learning about robots and how to make them. We have been working hard since 2003 to bring robotics to everyone's service and take pride in listening to our customers and making sure we offer excellent service.
We do understand that change can be scary and this caused a reaction from some older LMR members. While it was not our intention for things to get this far, please understand that we had to protect the RobotShop brand along the way. We do admit that there could have been many ways to react to this situation but, we have not banned any LMR members. We are in contact with some members of the community as their accounts have been blocked temporarily in order to ask further questions for security reasons.
We do care to resolve this in a timely manner and apologize to everyone effected by recent changes to the LMR community. Our intention is to make the community grow in a friendly environment where everyone is welcome to share and ask questions no matter the age or experience.
We remain very much open and hope to resolve any issues still in effect.
Thank you,
Mario Tremblay, CEO
RobotShop inc.
I've edited my post above to be more concise (and a bit less negative).
I'm still very mad at how my friends and I were treated but I'll wait a bit before deciding what to do next.
If things were up to me, I would not have forced the new family friendly rule on members of LMR since this is not what many (possibly the majority) of LMR wanted.
When I learned RoboShop had purchased LMR I fully expected these new rules about language. I think the new owners have a right to add these rules and I had personally looked forward to a LMR to which I could refer my nieces, nephews and neighborhood children.
I'm not sure if I will continue to participate at LMR or not. I'm presently doubtful I will.
Edit: I hope things are well with Gareth. His content is/was absolutely amazing. He's inspired many of the things I've done.
Edit: I'm back out of Let's Make Robots. I was told I wasn't "moving forward" since I had said I thought Mario had behaved poorly. As soon as I told them I no longer wanted to be a member, my posts in the "apology" thread were deleted. It's a very strange situation at LMR. In part of the post about moving forward Mario says "We can argue and explain different points of view over and over again but we may never fully agree." The different points may have been explained over and over again but the record of these arguments is gone. Posts asking about what happened are deleted and posts trying to explain in general terms why people were upset are also deleted. I find this all very disturbing.
Especially if the something just wants to keep throwing all your Tea into the harbor...
It looks like you are addressing two people?
EDIT: Keith and I have talk, and everything is cool.
Welcome to the forum. Don't be surprised, you're dealing with some of the best roboticists we know. They're full of surprises. You all share the same goals, don't go doing anything rash anymore. Same team Mario.
I'll only comment on one section of the TOS.
It appears by visiting the link below they may consider you are subject to the terms of service. I imagine I'm not understanding what I'm reading or they made an error in composing the TOS but I'll quote one section here as a way of warning.
Surely I'm not understanding the terms correctly since it seems to say by visiting the site, you agree to the TOS.
http://letsmakerobots.com/legal
In other words, their legal department made a "major oops" with their wording..........
ps. good luck with getting section 1.17 to hold up in the U.S.