Propeller 1-2-3 FPGA Board (#60054) available to Forum Members $375
Ken Gracey
Posts: 7,392
Hello there,
We've got 30 Propeller 1-2-3 FPGA Boards (#60054) in stock, built around the Cyclone V A-7. As Chip has announced that we will be making a new version of this board with the Cyclone V A-9, we'd like to do a quick sale of the #60054 boards to Propeller developers (you). We are not offering these for general sale like our common products because we would like to uphold a certain standard with documentation, schematics, code and support for products sold on the web site. Instead, all the resources available for these boards will be posted on this page and PayPal will be the payment choice. The resources we will share include a schematic, a Propeller loader from Chip, and the production files. We're providing Altium production files because the board is open source, but also because some customers have designed products using the Propeller 2 binary image and we want them to have freedom to proceed with any PCB design and production plans should Parallax have further Propeller 2 ASIC delays.
In summary, the support for this product is right here on the forums. PayPal ebaysales@parallax.com $375 and we'll ship you a board (shipping is included). I will be updating this post with the relevant links around this effort (or, I'll get a helper to do that because I'm upside down time-wise).
This is what you can do with the Propeller 1-2-3 FPGA Board with the Cyclone A-7:[*]Run the Propeller 1 in full, even up to 48 cogs (forum members will know something about this);[*]Run the first Propeller 2 binary image released a year ago;[*]Run future versions of Propeller 2 (with limitations; we're not sure exactly how many yet).[/list]Resources (to be updated):
Ken Gracey
We've got 30 Propeller 1-2-3 FPGA Boards (#60054) in stock, built around the Cyclone V A-7. As Chip has announced that we will be making a new version of this board with the Cyclone V A-9, we'd like to do a quick sale of the #60054 boards to Propeller developers (you). We are not offering these for general sale like our common products because we would like to uphold a certain standard with documentation, schematics, code and support for products sold on the web site. Instead, all the resources available for these boards will be posted on this page and PayPal will be the payment choice. The resources we will share include a schematic, a Propeller loader from Chip, and the production files. We're providing Altium production files because the board is open source, but also because some customers have designed products using the Propeller 2 binary image and we want them to have freedom to proceed with any PCB design and production plans should Parallax have further Propeller 2 ASIC delays.
In summary, the support for this product is right here on the forums. PayPal ebaysales@parallax.com $375 and we'll ship you a board (shipping is included). I will be updating this post with the relevant links around this effort (or, I'll get a helper to do that because I'm upside down time-wise).
This is what you can do with the Propeller 1-2-3 FPGA Board with the Cyclone A-7:[*]Run the Propeller 1 in full, even up to 48 cogs (forum members will know something about this);[*]Run the first Propeller 2 binary image released a year ago;[*]Run future versions of Propeller 2 (with limitations; we're not sure exactly how many yet).[/list]Resources (to be updated):
- Link to the A-7 FPGA Resource files
- Link to P2 Binary image
- Link to P2 PNut Assembler
Ken Gracey
1280 x 1280 - 550K
1280 x 1280 - 499K
Comments
Only problem is I have a gasket leaking oil all over my alternator... should be fixed tomorrow...
A quick trip to Walmart to freshen up my Bluebird account, and I should be good to go:)
Thank You Parallax
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. As much as I'd like to help test the upcoming P2 image, that's way too much for me. If Chip puts together a BEMicro CV A9 version, I can probably convince myself to get one of those. Otherwise, I'll have to hope that there's at least a one or two cog version that will fit on the DE0 Nano or BEMicro CV.
We won't get where we are trying to go if everything is sold at or below cost, unfortunately. Not every product can be a loss leader for Parallax.
Bill of Materials costs (labor and material) are just under $300. If you want to amortize the PCB NRE costs and see them justified in this product alone [which is not the case, as it's a development tool for our own use as well], you can spread about $45K across the expected annual usage to figure out your break-even quantity. At $75 gross profit per board and $45K of NRE, it'll take 600 boards to simply break even.
I believe there are many benefits to using the Parallax board if you're an early adopter. When Chip described them to me (I didn't take note) it was clear that the value of one's time will be reflected in the first few hours of saved setup time.
As soon as I have time I'll post a fully costed Parallax BOM so you can see what goes into this product.
Ken Gracey
The DE2 was a similar investment and it was an effective test bed.
The real question for people is what images get produced and when.
If doing the DE2 with its 4 DAC outputs, does not make sense initially, getting one of these makes more sense.
Can we get that info?
Regarding the $375, yes, it's alot but it is less than we expected this board to cost. We're back to value and I see a lot of value on this board EVEN THOUGH in the mean time, the A-9 became supported in the Quartus free version *AND* there is a BE Micro board with the A-9 available for less money.
Even better yet, Parallax decided to adapt the 1-2-3 FPGA board to support the A-9, opening up a bunch of new possibilities. (Yay, Parallax!!! Thanks!)
I think a long time ago, a bunch of us may have told Ken, "Sure, we'll be onboard as testers and early adopters, the Parallax FPGA board sounds like just the ticket." Well, stuff happens, plans change, new releases happen and don't happen, things are said.
I had grumbled, "that I probably wouldn't buy one of these boards"; "who needs a P2"; "too little, too late"; etc. Well, I feel I committed to this project as a customer and Ken and Parallax may have built a board for me based on things I said and committed to.
So I ponied up the money and bought a board when Ken announced the availability. Could it have been a 1-2-3 FPGA board with an A-9 on it, yeah, maybe, someday. Could I buy a BE Micro A-9 board? Sure and I still can if I want to? Is the Be Micro going to be supported or as well supported in the P2 testing program? Don't know. Are the peripherals I build and hang of my BE Micro A-9 going to be as well supported? Don't know.
So it comes down to that Parallax Value thing that we always talk about and try to put a price on. This board at the going price has value to me. I can't say if it has value to anyone else.
In the end, it's all fun, and if it isn't, find another hobby! Life's too short and the earth spins too fast!
Good question! Shipping is included to U.S. destinations; please add $20 for international orders.
KG
The prior test time was a lot of fun, and I learned a lot.
I'm still on board with the P1V development (https://github.com/jacgoudsmit/p1v); I just haven't had much time for it lately.
===Jac
This board could be available as early as four weeks from now, but it won't be sold until Chip has a viable P2 image to distribute with the board. So, it's more of an R&D-based lead time and not one associated with manufacturing.
Cost? Don't know yet. It depends on what we get the A-9 chips at - last time it took me six months to save $70/chip. I was very disappointed when I learned I'd need to start that process again. Altera is a huge company and they change positions every year by design. And now they're owned by Intel so I doubt it'll get any easier. If we don't get a price break then the cost of the chips will simply be reflected in our price. I don't know if everybody on this forum really knows what kind of effort is required to get low-priced chips. It's significant, and an opportunity cost in many ways.
Ken Gracey
Just noticed Steph's post about an additional $20 for international shipping. Sending that now.
This board could be available as early as four weeks from now, but it won't be sold until Chip has a viable P2 image to distribute with the board. So, it's more of an R&D-based lead time and not one associated with manufacturing.
Cost? Don't know yet. It depends on what we get the A-9 chips at - last time it took me six months to save $70/chip. I was very disappointed when I learned I'd need to start that process again. Altera is a huge company and they change positions every year by design. And now they're owned by Intel so I doubt it'll get any easier. If we don't get a price break then the cost of the chips will simply be reflected in our price. I don't know if everybody on this forum really knows what kind of effort is required to get low-priced chips. It's significant, and an opportunity cost in many ways.
Ken Gracey
Thanks Ken. Makes it sound like it might be a good idea to snap up one of the A7 boards soon. I imagine they will go fast!
I was thinking about this, and it may be possible to emulate SDRAM using the DDR3 memory that comes on the BeMicro CV A9.Depends on how much silicon support for SDRAM Parallax plan, but simpler SW SDRAM interface, could see an IO map on the FPGA, that then bridges via a special verilog block to the DDR3 memory.
For more accurate SDRAM memory emulation, if actually needed, I see the BeMicroMAX10 has 8MB SDRAM installed.
Ken Gracey
Never worked for a big company. Do they really do that? Funny.
How can they get work done when constantly people need to retrain colleges and reestablish trust and communication habits.
Just curious!
Mike