How much has to happen until a technical forum like this will take position?
StefanL38
Posts: 2,292
Hi moderator,
a part of these problems is intolerance. Can you tolerate this political title and a link to a political forum?
http://www.wer-weiss-was.de/auslandspolitik/how-much-must-happen-until-a-technical-forum-will-take-position
thank you
best regards
Stefan
a part of these problems is intolerance. Can you tolerate this political title and a link to a political forum?
http://www.wer-weiss-was.de/auslandspolitik/how-much-must-happen-until-a-technical-forum-will-take-position
thank you
best regards
Stefan
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
There are forums designed to deal with political matters, so there is zero reason to post about these issues in a technical forum, regardless of how aggrieved one might feel. And a link to a political webpage is no different than posting the contents directly.
As a consequence, I will leave this thread intact for up to a day so others can be reminded of forum policies, then delete it.
-Phil
I watched the video and really liked it. But I do not see any political or religious stuff in it. It is about a guy with tattoos all over his body teaching kids tolerance.
What is wrong with that and why shouldn't a link be directly here in this forum?
Well - your thread title is quite unrelated to the actual video. How can a technical forum take position on something like that. And why?
Better would be something like - How to teach people tolerance. And the link to the video.
That would have not alerted @Phil. I did run into moderation of him with a joke thread. Jokes inherently make fun out of something. And you easy step over lines yourself still find acceptable but other people don't.
I accepted his moderation, even while I was thinking it was not needed. On the other hand the Parallax forums are so nice because of strict moderation. Thanks to all them busy moderators keeping Spam, BS and other unrelated stuff out.
So I do not see the need to delete this thread, just a need to change the title.
Thanks
Mike
I was just going to say turn apples into oranges, but that works even better here.
I appreciate coming to a technical forum and finding technical forum posts. Thank you, moderators, for your efforts.
Personally, I have lots of other places I can visit for news and opinion. I come here to get away from all that.
The problem is that I am intolerant of non-technical, especially non-Propeller related posts on this Propeller "technical" forum.
You may like McDonalds but don't expect your local bierhaus to have it on their menu, that's not what they are there for and neither is this forum here for general "world" topics.
*ducks*
Also I don't blame Stefan for reaching out, and the only reason I'm writing this is because this post will self destructs.
*ducks lower*
Initially I thought this was a spam post. When I follow the link given I get to a page with no content on it but covered in lot's of ugly and annoying animated advertising.
But lo, there are two lines of text in English, sorry I don't speak German, but those lines don't give any hint as to an issue or topic.
On a hunch I hit the link reading "ganze Frage anzeigen" guessing it leads to more text. Sure enough a full page advertisement opens up in a new tab. More Spam.
OK back to the linked page. There I find some rant about Genocide, political unrest, police car sirens in front of my house, etc.
Still I have no idea what you are asking or what the issue is that you are asking for a position on.
So far thanks for wasting 10 minutes of my life trying to find out what you are about here. And a big thank you from wer-weiss-was.de for ramping up the hit count on their site and supporting the advertising going on there.
Now, if anyone is concerned with the perilous state of the world, run away capitalism, corporate social welfare, social inequality, the failure of our democracies, the owning of politics by the wealthy elite, loss of privacy, government snooping, the failing educational system, the destruction of the planet, etc etc I would recommend checking out Russel Brand https://www.youtube.com/user/russellbrand
I too get frustrated at times when political issues are barred from technical forums. For example, when it comes to concerns over say: the loss of privacy, government/corporate snooping, the absurd copyright laws and their enforcement, internet censorship, shouldn't the very people who are making all that possible on such an unprecedented scale sometimes discuss it? That is the technical guys who hang out on technical forums.
On the other hand Parallax is a fine example of a positive influence in the world. They have an educational mission. Teaching the young about technology, teaching them to think, teaching them that they can be independent and do technical stuff for themselves. Giving them independence and power to some measure.
A lot of political noise here would only detract from that effort.
Sometimes it's hard to manage this stuff! And when we really feel it, it can consume us too.
But people do, and in general, we must.
Most people compartmentalize things. They do this so that they can manage their lives and their time.
In that vein, this forum is one such compartment. And we compartmentalize so that we may all get along and maximize our tech lives, share understanding, become friends, form community.
That is a perfectly valid thing to do, and it takes nothing away from the ills of the world.
Activism may take many forms. Some good, some productive, some not so good. It can be difficult to understand what is what, particularly when the source of the passion is seemingly inescapable.
One thing you may find helpful is the nature of advocacy. Becoming an effective advocate means understanding it's core elements. These are character, emotion, and reason. Part of character is treating people well and understanding their nature, including their need to compartmentalize and prioritize. A matter of passion may be burning bright for you, and something else, or nothing at all to somebody else.
And that is OK.
Effective advocates seek context, and they understand time and place. We don't ever actually force anything. People come to their realizations on their own terms, and sometimes a door is open, and sometimes it's not. Some doors are the wrong doors too.
Effective advocates look for opportunities that make sense and they seek to enlighten people without turning them away so that they remain potent and healthy. Ignoring this can lead to zealotry, or depression, or a failure in basic priorities, and many other core things that make being a person painful with no real return.
This thing you are concerned about does matter. I'm quite sure of it, and I believe that because of what I know of you here. Many of us harbor similar leanings and that too is OK.
Each of us must weigh what is worth what. And each of us is free to weigh those things as we see makes the best sense for us, our lives, and our loved ones, community, etc...
Rather than be discouraged, grok this. Grow. There are outlets for you, and I encourage you to explore them, refine your advocacy and perhaps do some real good, at the least, enlighten others with good intent.
No worries here. Just passing some hard won advice from my own life experiences. BTW, I am quite an effective advocate today. Got there one step, hard knock at a time, all while showing good intent. Try not to judge people. They have their reasons. Instead, share with people and seek those opportunities they may present to you. Forcing it rarely works, and when it does, it's generally unpleasant.
Do your activism. It's not a bad thing. You will learn a lot, express things you find important, and grow. Everybody does. But also do pay attention to others and try to receive as much or more than you give. There is a quiet power in this that I find hard to articulate, but it goes something like, "they will know to ask you" and when they do, the door for your advocacy is wide open. Humility goes a long way in this world. It goes as far as good intent and character do.
Again, just some advice from an activist from way back. And I have no plans on stopping that advocacy and activism either. I just manage it toward the productive and positive as much as I can. And in that vein, do try to couple negatives, injustices, whatever it may be with positive, fact based, data driven policy visions and calls to action so that when you do reach people, they have a means to act on it.
Right now, there are some tech politics and law issues being settled. We live in interesting times. For me, I have found the line is where those issues get conflated into and aligned with other ones, making a mess.
That is very hard to do for most people actually. We've done it some times, and it's great. I know something more of all of you, and I got clarity on some things too. Hope I helped bring the same to all of you.
But we've not done it too, heading off into some tangent or other, and it is what it is.
Various communities have their own abilities and preferences. While this one is tepid in that respect, I get why, and there are many places filled with interesting people where those dialogs can happen, and at the least, putting some insight here is usually permitted and good.
This could be better, but we really aren't bad. Seriously.
One other thing I've noted is this forum is connected to Parallax the business. Some businesses take political stands, and where they do, there is risk. That is for each to decide. Their communities often reflect that risk and that's OK.
Some places aren't connected in that way, and it can be more easy and or productive to share politics of various kinds.
Just some observations, no blame, no harm intended here.
Please can you explain me what is the relation between this video and the forum.
I watch the half of the video but I can not see what you mean.
Best Regards
Reinhard
Driverless cars will be the same.
So discussing how regulation will hinder innovation, and different tactics to get around government barriers, makes sense. Also trying to predict how the government will react to certain things. Maybe even how to change it for the better, but I've personally lost faith in that notion.
For example, I want to let kids have a forum like this. I bet Parallax would like to also allow kids under 13 to have some area to discuss robotics. Well, you quickly slam in to the giant wall of red tape called COPPA.
Those types of discussions in my opinion are relevant to a forum like this. Much like R/C planes must discuss political things, because to push any boundaries of innovation in FPV for example, guess who is there to push you back down?
We don't need to talk about perceived biases, Baltimore, that Reddit co owner. But talking about how to teach kids about ELEV-8 without the government getting in the way, or getting sued, is a very valid topic in my opinion.
The simple fact is that we do not use the Forums as a democracy. These are provided by a host that has always (and rather tolernantly I might add) retained the right to pass judgement over what is appropriate and what is not.
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I too live in a political mileu that makes me grumpy at times and inspires the desire to speak up about feeling of injustice or compelling concerns that are out of bounds. I even slip sometimes and do so.
But to put forth the simple fact, there is a limit to any host's goodwill. Please accept the limitations for what they are. The Forum is generous in what it provides.
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I get on line in Yahoo News or the Washington Post to brawl about political issues of the day, and there I tend not to hold back or tolerate foolishness. But some threads do turn rabid and dismal. I am very uncertain that anything political is well-served by online discussion. It may require face-to-face encounters within a community to affect real change.
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Is this all a tongue-in-cheek challenge? Posting a link to a politcal forum as a means to test the bounds?
We are all guests here and should behave accordingly.
We have fierce enough arguments over technical things where there is at least some chance of experiment and reality providing a correct answer. Things get ugly when it comes to less technical things like choice of programming language and use of proprietary software.
Religion, politics and such are endless, in general it's better to keep them out of here. There are plenty other outlets for that kind of debate.
If nothing else any political debate, especially in the USA devolves to a slanging match between so called "left" and "right". Which is totally pointless and really boring.
But it is interesting over the years watching people on this forum interact.
Thanks Phil for leaving the thread open so far. I am sure somebody will
come up with something that crosses the line, but maybe not!
I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!
There. Now I feel better. What was the issue again
Sorry for shouting but if you know the movie "Network" you know it has to be: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Network_%28film%29
Joe Frank Kennedy.
Young guy and girl detained at air port in England and having their possessions confiscated. Why? Because they were carrying a Raspberry Pi and electronic bits in their luggage: https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=108853#p748495
I do believe the human race has gone insane sometimes.
The Forum Guidelines clearly state the boundaries of discourse..
Agree with the guidelines? Cool.
Disagree with the guidelines? Later alligator!
As others have stated, I immensely appreciate the Forum's discussion of things elektronikal as an oasis from the usual world-issues.
Now, pardon me whilst I done my tin-foil hat and venture out into the workaday world...
(oh, and this thread should be moved to General)
Right there with you, Peter. There's enough space on the Internet for the discussion of politics -- no need to include that topic here.
However sometimes I wonder if these various sub forum categories are any use at all. They are cool for day to day checking for recent activity in whatever topic, but when you want to actually want to look for information it's hopeless, nobody is going to scan the sub forum, the search feature does not work. The only way to find stuff here is via a google site search, at which point it does not matter what sub-forum the posts are in.
That's a great reference Heater. True classic.
My counterpoint was the conflation of that into general politics. That's a mess, and I think I'm right about that too.
One example of that going well here is open. That's a very political approach to technical collaboration. If you go back to early times in this community, you can see the dialog evolve. We all did very well, reaching what I see as a very solid political place, our priorities are generally good, and the intent behind open often well expressed.
So it happens. And it's relevant. But we gotta manage it to be of technical value, or it's not productive. And a great example might be allowing the general politics, and the clash we all know would happen, fun as it may be for some of us, drowning out the more valuable dialog.
Open may not have happened.
That's how I see it working here, and I like how it works here too.
For anything else, I either use the general "What's new?" button, or if I'm seeking, use Google.
"site: parallax.com whatever" That works very well.
So the sub-forums work for me. Our overall activity level is low right now, so they seem extraneous. But, our activity level will increase, and P2 will pop out of the womb here soon too. At that time, those subs will make a lot more sense overall.
IMHO, of course.
-Phil
I watched about five minutes of the tattoed wrestler but I did not get the point.