simpleIDE and SPIN?
prof_braino
Posts: 4,313
Can we use simpleIDE to compile and load SPIN files?
ANSWER as of post 18: its possible in some but not necessarily in all cases, and may be unsupported. Propeller IDE is the current tool for SPIN.
I see the Project options has compiler type SPIN, but I can't figure out how to get at it.
I tried to create a new project using project name TEST and selecting types of files SPIN PROJECT (*.spin), this gives the message:
Project not Found
Blank Simple Project was not found
I tried opening the example project Welcome.side, but this opens Welcome.c not Welcome.spin
Any hints what I'm doing wrong?
ANSWER as of post 18: its possible in some but not necessarily in all cases, and may be unsupported. Propeller IDE is the current tool for SPIN.
I see the Project options has compiler type SPIN, but I can't figure out how to get at it.
I tried to create a new project using project name TEST and selecting types of files SPIN PROJECT (*.spin), this gives the message:
Project not Found
Blank Simple Project was not found
I tried opening the example project Welcome.side, but this opens Welcome.c not Welcome.spin
Any hints what I'm doing wrong?
Comments
If I remember correctly, you needed to do the steps correctly to create a Spin project in SimpleIDE - any mistakes left you with a C project and frustration. That was long ago and several versions back when I played with it.
PropellerIDE is REALLY nice now for Spin programming across multiple platforms.
wrong program!
Initially simpleIDE was supposed to support C/C++ and SPIN. But there is the different ways C and SPIN support files like includes or Spin objects. There is some workaround with C/C++ projects using Project View and Spin projects do not use Project View. But this was getting odd since two 'workflows' where needed in the same application.
So Steve decided to 'spin-off' another project called PropellerIDE now currently managed by Brett Weir from the LameStation group(?). You should be able to find it on the Parallax Git-Hub page.
Basically you can use simpleIDE with SPIN, but you shouldn't. Use simpleIDE for C/C++ and propellerIDE for SPIN and soon(?) PropBasic.
@Ken stated in one of his last posts that Parallax is supporting propellerIDE and also the integration of PropBasic into the IDE.
Brett posted lately that the syntax highlighter for PropBasic is already working. Like simpleIDE, propellerIDE is based on QT and both programs are supposed to support Wndow, Linux and Mac.
Bret also stated that he is modularizing propellerIDE to allow adding other languages to the IDE. Not sure how syntax highlighting and code completion would work with a language like FORTH, but as far as I remember @Heater just need to say that it is 'impossible' and someone gets it done..
I do not have much Propeller time lately and can barely follow the forums. So I haven't tried the never versions of both yet.
Enjoy!
Mike
Initially simpleIDE was supposed to support C/C++ and SPIN. But there is the different ways C and SPIN support files like includes or Spin objects. There is some workaround with C/C++ projects using Project View and Spin projects do not use Project View. But this was getting odd since two 'workflows' where needed in the same application.
I searched the forms before I started to play with SimpleIDE so I could run it from the Raspberry Pi 2. It was difficult to determine if Simple IDE even supported Spin from the threads I found. I finally did a file search on Rasbain and found the Spin files located under /opt/parallax/spin. I managed to get it working but I couldn't help but think that the process was too difficult for beginners. At least now I know why. LOL
I was able to use simpleIDE to load the propforth devkernel. All I did was create a propforth.side file with
Devkernel.spin
compiler=SPIN
I almost didn't try this, I figured a SPIN was too obvious not to have been included.
Does simpleIDE only work with a single spin file? Seems the documentation should contain at least an explanation and example for the simple case.
simpleIDE is a release candidate, but is it? Seems like pre-release since it contains functions that don't work, and/or omits at least one basic example.
Does it matter if the project calls addition files for other objects? Or does the same (set of) file(s) work one time, and fail another?
Any reason you DO NOT want to use PropellerIDE?
IMPOSSIBLE!!!
(sorry, you set yourself up for that one!)
I want to check now, but I suspect my wife will get me to stop before I can get anywhere. I should be able to get back to you on that tomorrow.
Ray
Agreed. At present, SimpleIDE spin functions not working can only be a bug. It is uncharacteristic for Parallax to release a major tool with obvious major bugs.
I DO use Propeller IDE (corrected typo), I am simply checking whether simpleIDE is complete yet.
This check was to determine if there are remaining bugs that would prevent us from using simpleIDE. When 33% doesn't work, then the tool cannot be trusted. Clearly, simpleIDE is still in "developer only" state, and cannot be considered suitable for regular users. The release candidate should be rejected. This should be a no-brainer.
Could someone state the technical reason why simpleIDE cannot do SPIN, what aspect of the workflow makes these mutually exclusive from a single tool?
This did not work on Linux Mint 17 (debian/ubuntu variant), it said blank project not found. However, I manually edited a project file and was able to compile my single spin file. To me, it looks like the only thing missing is an example and instructions, but I did not try a spin file that calls objects from other files.
-Phil
A stated before, I think SimpleIDE is "over complete". At some point, the 33% you want to use was determined to be above and beyond what Parallax wanted SimpleIDE to do. My understanding was that it was not to be a Spin tool, that would be handled by PropellerIDE. Parallax would officially need to answer this and explain the final roadmap for SimpleIDE.
I don't think there is a technical reason. It does do Spin....I think it was a marketing decision to have it not do Spin.
Again, someone from Parallax would need to lay out the roadmaps for the two products.
Checking the release candidate should probably be limited to if and how well it can be used as a C/C++ IDE for the Propeller.
I personally have all my Propeller projects on hold until the IDE selections get updated across the board and there is a good installable package available. Propeller Tool does not work in the Linux environment, and BST is dead in the water, for those of you that were going to make those suggestions.
Ray
Fleshing that out a little ... My experience is limited but in perusing Chip's various VGA drivers I found he uses colons quite a bit as first character of a PASM line labels. PropellerIDE doesn't grok those at all, I think it treating them as white spaces. Result is PropellerIDE is even seeing some labels as reserved words.
a colon in front of a label in PASM makes that label local. Local as local between non local labels. So you are able to have multiple :loop labels in one PASM source. One of that @Chip things.
Non-alpha first character needs to get fixed. I agree. Symbols starting with a number are quite common to me, programming COBOL...
@rsadeika
But @Jazzed and now @Brett have put a tremendous amount of work into this. I am very thankful for their work and say so now:
Thank you @Jazzed for SimpleIDE and PropellerIDE. You made a big step for Parallax and us users. Platform independence.
And since it is open source Brett was able to take over the PropellerIDE project from @Jazzed and @Jazzed does not need to spend any more time on it. Well done @Jazzed. Thank you.
BST is sadly unsupported now and not open source. Propeller Tool is just windows.
But PropGCC, OpenSpin, SimpleIDE and PropellerIDE can run on a lot of different platforms and OSs.
Thanks to all guys involved with this, not just @Jazzed all of you...
Enjoy!
Mike
Ah, thanks for the heads up. I think I get what you mean by "between non local labels."
SimpleIDE does support C (GCC) and Spin compilation... The level of support for the Spin language is not as complete as for C & C++. The UI of SimpleIDE, when not in Project mode does not make the creation of a new Spin project as easy as a new C project, as the user needs to create a new file, name it with a .spin extension, then click on the "Set Project to Current Tab" button, which then creates the new project as a "Spin project". So, just a little trickery is required to get SimpleIDE to NOT assume a .c or .cpp based project.
Support for GCC & Spin compilers:
Support for .c, .cpp & .spin project types:
The Project Manager for a Spin project works differently than it does for a C project. For C (& C++), files can be easily added to the project by left-click (or Control-click on Mac OS X) in the Project Manager view. This option does not work for Spin projects. The usual OBJ type is used within the code to specify libraries:
Objects specified in Spin code 'OBJ' declaration show up in the Project Manager for Spin projects:
OBJ libName: "libFileName.spin"dgately
Spin files will only be in an accessory role for device drivers in the future as was originally intended.
Get over it. Move on.
Disdain for the users and disregard for the requirements does not give warm fuzzies about the tool.
Removing working support for the part's native language raises some questions. For example, why was it in there in the first place if it wasn't a requriement? Did Parallax really intend that spin would be supported only as accessory? This does not sound familliar. Did I miss a post stating that the prop 2 would not support spin or something? My apologies, I don't follow all the forum threads due to time constraints.
Since the spin compiler functionality appears to be working, isn't it more effort to remove it rather than simply supplying a working example and the same short explanation given in this thread? Finishing up the examples and instructions is usually the easy part. Is there a technical reason why spin does not work and must be removed?
If the design decision was "all compilation will be done using project file process flow"; then fine, as the spin compiler can be used. The code is open source, later one somebody can make a generic single spin file project if there's no budget for that now. Splitting the "simple" tool into two parts seems to go against the "one simple tool" idea.
Support for Spin may well be removed from Simple IDE, thus returning it to it's original intended purpose, a simple IDE for C on the Propeller, but Spin is now supported by PropellerIDE.
PropellerIDE is a open source cross platform IDE dedicated to Spin, like the PropTool.
I like this solution as it keeps both tools simple. Which is important for the tool developers but also important when presenting programming to beginners for the first time with these tools.
Spin will for sure be supported on the Propeller 2. It's unimaginable that it would be dropped there.
Do not panic!
No. When a legitimate question is asked and the response is "get over it" rather than a clarifiaction or statment of requirements being met, that's simply rude. I'm asking about an obvious bug.
Either the requirement is to have Spin support or not; so this is either a bug because it doesn't work or because its present and should not be. We want to ask and answer these questions sooner that later. A common error is for a developer to change high level requirements (without authorization) to fit the code instead of the other way around. Better to ask a dumb question now than discover a costly mistake later.
Ok, I now understand the requirement to be the tool is C only for the prop.
So here's one source of confusion: The name simple IDE implied (to me at least) simple ide for the propeller, i.e it would replace the windows-only/spin-only propeller tool. I did not think the original idea was a C only tool for the prop until I read post #27. I would have thought something like that would be call PropC-IDE, but I guess Prop-cide would have a wrong ring to it. Another part of the confusion is that the name Propeller IDE imples it does everything we need for the propeller, when in fact that tool only does spin. We should expect this confusion in every newcomer.
I flag this for consideration. The suggestion is that the C tool for the prop might say something about C and the prop in its name, and the spin tool for the prop might say something about spin and the prop in its name. This would go a long way eliminating confusion for newcomers, or anyone else that does not follow the fourms closely, like yours truely.
The purpose of this thread is to figure out if we need two tools instead of one, and how things look for folks that use Linux.
Since Propeller IDE does not do everything we expect from the original Propeller Tool, it means we still must keep a copy of windows around in case we need some functionallity from the propeller tool. So Linux users need two tools, and another OS to run a third tool?
CimpleIDE - C/C++ only, runs on MacLindows
PropellerIDE - SPIN/PASM only, runs on MacLindows
What don't the *IDE tools do that you still need windows around for?
Even better! Sauce for the goose!!