Thanks Bruce. Just having fun with you. Moderators, sorry if you interpreted that as a personal attack. Anyhow, Ken said they are producing 1000 boards, which should be available the end of the month or early next month.
I think Ken was talking about "Project Boards" not "Proto Boards".
I think Ken was talking about "Project Boards" not "Proto Boards".
I think you are correct Dave.
I don't think the decision to bring the Proto Board back has been made.
Per Chris's post.
As I said previously, we are looking into the option of continuing the Propeller Proto Board Serial (Prop Plug) version. I hope to have more information next week. One thing to keep in mind is that sometimes we have to order these in lots of 1000 pieces or more. If the product isn't selling that means excessive stock on hand that has some effect on taxes and such (not my area of expertise), but it is not good to keep building a product that isn't selling.
I could care less what type it is, USB versus Prop Plug, just keep at least one of them. As for building them myself, I would design an actual board instead. Nice try Dave.
OK, after reading your posts again I now realize that your concern is proto versus project board. To be honest I never really thought the difference between proto versus project was that significant, but apparently you need features that are exclusive to the proto board. Also your statement that you "could care less what type it is, USB versus Prop Plug" means that you actually do care whether it is USB versus Prop Plug. Perhaps you meant to say you "couldn't care less" instead of you "could care less".
Thanks Bruce. Just having fun with you. Moderators, sorry if you interpreted that as a personal attack.
I can see how it might appear that you were being referred to , but the moderator was not referring to you. Several posts have been deleted due to moderation.
I think Ken was talking about "Project Boards" not "Proto Boards".
Indeed, it's the Project Board that's going to be available very shortly. We'll have 1,000 units in stock.
And yes, as Chris pointed out, we're bringing the Proto Board back as well. While I personally prefer the USB version, the serial Prop Plug version is probably more practical for a couple of reasons: lower cost to Parallax and the customer, differentiation from the Project Board, etc. We are still working through a few special leaps to make this possible. If you want a look inside Parallax on this one, I'll tell you what the hassle is for the Propeller Proto Board. Are you ready? We need to access our original design files to make a few minor updates and the original Propeller Proto Board design was done in PADS. If you know this software, it's one of those tools that we didn't update when we switched to Altium. To get it out of PADS and into Altium or DipTrace we need to jump through a lot of hoops internally: find the stupid dongle, find a PC with the right OS to run the software, and get it installed all while avoiding the clutches of the "upgrade opportunity". We don't want to send our original design files out for PCB fabrication.
What we shall do, though, is fast-track it for you as if it were a DefCon22 badge. We can and will have these quickly - our team in Rocklin could throw them on the P&P tomorrow if we could set them up.
Internally, we're also short on PCB designers who could work efficiently with Parallax's system. We expect to open up at least two positions in coming days to get some of these backlogged work efforts freed up.
And yes, as Chris pointed out, we're bringing the Proto Board back as well. While I personally prefer the USB version, the serial Prop Plug version is probably more practical for a couple of reasons: lower cost to Parallax and the customer, differentiation from the Project Board, etc.
Ken Gracey
Thanks for the update. I believe the Protoboard is a good product and hope enough people continue using it to justify your efforts.
Thanks for the update. I believe the Protoboard is a good product and hope enough people continue using it to justify your efforts.
- Ron
I sure hope so. I'm up against some possibly very valid internal objection on this one but I told them you'll buy thousands! Good thing this ain't no popularity contest - you should see some of the messages I receive sometimes from upset customers about EOL notifications.
We'll make them low cost; you buy as many as you can.
I sure hope so. I'm up against some possibly very valid internal objection on this one but I told them you'll buy thousands! Good thing this ain't no popularity contest - you should see some of the messages I receive sometimes from upset customers about EOL notifications.
We'll make them low cost; you buy as many as you can.
Ken Gracey
It seems to me that you'd probably want a USB connector for a prototyping board since the cost of the board+PropPlug is probably higher than just a USB version of the same board. But maybe the non-USB version would be best if you intend to use these for small run productions. In that case you can use the same PropPlug to program all of the units and save some money in the process. Was that the idea behind originally offering both types of boards?
I sure hope so. I'm up against some possibly very valid internal objection on this one but I told them you'll buy thousands! Good thing this ain't no popularity contest - you should see some of the messages I receive sometimes from upset customers about EOL notifications.
We'll make them low cost; you buy as many as you can.
Ken Gracey
I hope I don't stir things up again but I do wish that announcements of products being discontinued be made here on the forums to give us a chance to "stock up" before they're gone!
I do want to make clear that I'm not being critical of the decision to discontinue products as business needs dictate!
We need to access our original design files to make a few minor updates ...
Ken Gracey
I wonder if you could just edit the Gerber files directly for minor updates...
If it were just the silkscreen, for example, isn't that easy to edit with a Gerber editor?
That is fantastic news. Tell all parties concerned that I said "Thank You Very Much". While the Proto Board may not be as profitable as some of your other boards, it is a very good board to learn about and experiment with the Propeller chip, and as I said earlier, it is also a good board to make your prototyping a final solution to a project, as compared to having a custom PCB made at a fab shop. I hope it will be around for many years to come, but just in case it isn't, I will be purchasing just as many as I can afford to buy.
I am very interested to see what kind of updates there will be. A little more prototyping area would be a beautiful thing, especially if the board was about an inch longer, but I don't want to press my luck I am just glad that the Proto Boards are not disappearing into Parallax history, at least not yet.
I did not say this earlier, because I thought it was irrelevant, but I will share it anyhow. Just prior to the announcement of the discontinuance, I gave away my last new Proto Board to a friend, in hopes of getting him interested in electronics and the Propeller chip. When the announcement came, I began to think that was a very bad decision on my part, to give my last board away. Since your latest announcement, I once again think it was a very good decision.
Just for your information, the Proto Board photo that I provided earlier in this thread, was a photo of my CNC/3D printer controller. The 3D printer project has been on the back burner, while I worked on some PCB prototyping tools, but the 3D printer project will soon becoming back to life with a vengance, as well as all the threads that I started on the subject. Although that board has not yet been tested, I believe it is a very valid solution to a controller. It may not be perfect, but it should be close. Hopefully my threads, posts, and projects will shine a little more light on just how useful the Proto Board truly is.
It seems to me that you'd probably want a USB connector for a prototyping board since the cost of the board+PropPlug is probably higher than just a USB version of the same board. But maybe the non-USB version would be best if you intend to use these for small run productions. In that case you can use the same PropPlug to program all of the units and save some money in the process. Was that the idea behind originally offering both types of boards?
The original idea was that these boards would be made for one-off or short runs of a project/product that had no use for an on-board USB connection, which the USB version (now the Project Board) provides. At the time the Proto Board was released there was a demand for a version without the USB chip to A) keep cost down, make it more difficult for an end-user to access and engineer's (consultant's) design/product and C) to reduce complexity/failure rate/power consumption on the board.
Note that was one of those things where some designers had customers trying to access and/or reprogram their product causing issues. All three points were important to me and every project I created during the time we have both the USB and Prop Plug version of the board, I always used the Prop Plug version for any project that did not require a connection to a PC.
The original idea was that these boards would be made for one-off or short runs of a project/product that had no use for an on-board USB connection, which the USB version (now the Project Board) provides. At the time the Proto Board was released there was a demand for a version without the USB chip to A) keep cost down, make it more difficult for an end-user to access and engineer's (consultant's) design/product and C) to reduce complexity/failure rate/power consumption on the board.
Note that was one of those things where some designers had customers trying to access and/or reprogram their product causing issues. All three points were important to me and every project I created during the time we have both the USB and Prop Plug version of the board, I always used the Prop Plug version for any project that did not require a connection to a PC.
That makes perfect sense to me. Thanks for the explanation!
The original idea was that these boards would be made for one-off or short runs of a project/product that had no use for an on-board USB connection, which the USB version (now the Project Board) provides. At the time the Proto Board was released there was a demand for a version without the USB chip to A) keep cost down, make it more difficult for an end-user to access and engineer's (consultant's) design/product and C) to reduce complexity/failure rate/power consumption on the board.
Note that was one of those things where some designers had customers trying to access and/or reprogram their product causing issues. All three points were important to me and every project I created during the time we have both the USB and Prop Plug version of the board, I always used the Prop Plug version for any project that did not require a connection to a PC.
I never sold anything I did with a proto-board or propeller but always used the protoboard without on-board usb since they cost a few dollars less then those with and none of the things I used the board for never used the usb port while running. I got a propplug when I got the PEK and always used that. While I would prefer the non-usb version I'd be OK either way.
Hey all! Just dropping in to confirm that we're making these boards again. Since the Project Board has the USB chips, we're going to remake 32212 Proto Board - Serial (or Prop Plug version). This way, the two boards remain different and it'll keep the cost LOW for those of you who use them in multiples for your projects. We are revising our files and putting it into production, in Rocklin.
It's a fast-tracked project so you'll have them long before Christmas (giving you something to do when the relatives show up).
I usually do 1 of a kind things and love the Proto Board's without USB.
Not having USB on them eases the pain of the board resetting because of serial output on P30/31 without having anything connected to USB.
This is an issue I am still fighting with. Most of my projects use serial IO for setup and monitoring / troubleshooting. So I want to have serial enabled on P30/31. But I do not want to HAVE a PC connected to it. Just for setup/troubleshooting.
No problem on Boards without USB and using a PropPlug to attach to if needed.
But ALL other board I have from Parallax with build in USB show this reset problem when the serial pins attached to USB power up the USB chip and itself now resets the Propeller.
You do not even need to send something over serial. Just starting for example FullduplexSerial will power up the unpowered (not connected to PC) USB chip thru stray current from P30/31 and boom. Reset of the Propeller.
If USB is connected constantly to a PC we have other issues. At least with windows. Plug in some other USB device and USB gets enumerated again. Boom. Reset of the Propeller. Same with restart of PC. Boom. Reset of the Propeller.
In my opinion ALL Propeller Boards (with USB or not) should have a jumper to connect/disconnect reset between USB and the Prop. Enable programming. Like on the Spinneret. There you have the jumper, even if the Spinneret does not have USB.
I am not against USB on board in general. But 'USB less' boards are simply cheaper. And everybody needs a couple of PropPlugs anyways for ad hoc serial to any pin of the Propeller for testing or so.
Thanks again for keeping the Proto Board without USB.
My first Propeller Project Board arrived in the mail just moments ago, ahead of the expected scheduled delivery time.
I had to order the Propeller Project Board, since the Propeller Proto Board is no longer available, which is really quite disappointing, but I will do my best to give the Project Board a fair shake. At first glance, the only benefit that I see for my needs is the switching regulator and the ability to have a larger voltage supply, however, that may change as I become better acquainted with the board.
This code was obtained from adafruit and ported from mbed to run with simpleIDE. It includes support for reading two thermistors, however you may not need that and it can be removed.
If you need additional help in how to use the code, I could help... just ask. And please let me know how it works for you.
Comments
I think you are correct Dave.
I don't think the decision to bring the Proto Board back has been made.
Per Chris's post.
I can see how it might appear that you were being referred to
All is good.
Indeed, it's the Project Board that's going to be available very shortly. We'll have 1,000 units in stock.
And yes, as Chris pointed out, we're bringing the Proto Board back as well. While I personally prefer the USB version, the serial Prop Plug version is probably more practical for a couple of reasons: lower cost to Parallax and the customer, differentiation from the Project Board, etc. We are still working through a few special leaps to make this possible. If you want a look inside Parallax on this one, I'll tell you what the hassle is for the Propeller Proto Board. Are you ready? We need to access our original design files to make a few minor updates and the original Propeller Proto Board design was done in PADS. If you know this software, it's one of those tools that we didn't update when we switched to Altium. To get it out of PADS and into Altium or DipTrace we need to jump through a lot of hoops internally: find the stupid dongle, find a PC with the right OS to run the software, and get it installed all while avoiding the clutches of the "upgrade opportunity". We don't want to send our original design files out for PCB fabrication.
What we shall do, though, is fast-track it for you as if it were a DefCon22 badge. We can and will have these quickly - our team in Rocklin could throw them on the P&P tomorrow if we could set them up.
Internally, we're also short on PCB designers who could work efficiently with Parallax's system. We expect to open up at least two positions in coming days to get some of these backlogged work efforts freed up.
We shall provide updates on the subject soon.
Ken Gracey
Thanks for the update. I believe the Protoboard is a good product and hope enough people continue using it to justify your efforts.
- Ron
I sure hope so. I'm up against some possibly very valid internal objection on this one but I told them you'll buy thousands! Good thing this ain't no popularity contest - you should see some of the messages I receive sometimes from upset customers about EOL notifications.
We'll make them low cost; you buy as many as you can.
Ken Gracey
I hope I don't stir things up again but I do wish that announcements of products being discontinued be made here on the forums to give us a chance to "stock up" before they're gone!
I do want to make clear that I'm not being critical of the decision to discontinue products as business needs dictate!
I wonder if you could just edit the Gerber files directly for minor updates...
If it were just the silkscreen, for example, isn't that easy to edit with a Gerber editor?
That is fantastic news. Tell all parties concerned that I said "Thank You Very Much". While the Proto Board may not be as profitable as some of your other boards, it is a very good board to learn about and experiment with the Propeller chip, and as I said earlier, it is also a good board to make your prototyping a final solution to a project, as compared to having a custom PCB made at a fab shop. I hope it will be around for many years to come, but just in case it isn't, I will be purchasing just as many as I can afford to buy.
I am very interested to see what kind of updates there will be. A little more prototyping area would be a beautiful thing, especially if the board was about an inch longer, but I don't want to press my luck
I did not say this earlier, because I thought it was irrelevant, but I will share it anyhow. Just prior to the announcement of the discontinuance, I gave away my last new Proto Board to a friend, in hopes of getting him interested in electronics and the Propeller chip. When the announcement came, I began to think that was a very bad decision on my part, to give my last board away. Since your latest announcement, I once again think it was a very good decision.
Just for your information, the Proto Board photo that I provided earlier in this thread, was a photo of my CNC/3D printer controller. The 3D printer project has been on the back burner, while I worked on some PCB prototyping tools, but the 3D printer project will soon becoming back to life with a vengance, as well as all the threads that I started on the subject. Although that board has not yet been tested, I believe it is a very valid solution to a controller. It may not be perfect, but it should be close. Hopefully my threads, posts, and projects will shine a little more light on just how useful the Proto Board truly is.
Bruce
The original idea was that these boards would be made for one-off or short runs of a project/product that had no use for an on-board USB connection, which the USB version (now the Project Board) provides. At the time the Proto Board was released there was a demand for a version without the USB chip to A) keep cost down,
Note that
I never sold anything I did with a proto-board or propeller but always used the protoboard without on-board usb since they cost a few dollars less then those with and none of the things I used the board for never used the usb port while running. I got a propplug when I got the PEK and always used that. While I would prefer the non-usb version I'd be OK either way.
It's a fast-tracked project so you'll have them long before Christmas (giving you something to do when the relatives show up).
Ken Gracey
I usually do 1 of a kind things and love the Proto Board's without USB.
Not having USB on them eases the pain of the board resetting because of serial output on P30/31 without having anything connected to USB.
This is an issue I am still fighting with. Most of my projects use serial IO for setup and monitoring / troubleshooting. So I want to have serial enabled on P30/31. But I do not want to HAVE a PC connected to it. Just for setup/troubleshooting.
No problem on Boards without USB and using a PropPlug to attach to if needed.
But ALL other board I have from Parallax with build in USB show this reset problem when the serial pins attached to USB power up the USB chip and itself now resets the Propeller.
You do not even need to send something over serial. Just starting for example FullduplexSerial will power up the unpowered (not connected to PC) USB chip thru stray current from P30/31 and boom. Reset of the Propeller.
If USB is connected constantly to a PC we have other issues. At least with windows. Plug in some other USB device and USB gets enumerated again. Boom. Reset of the Propeller. Same with restart of PC. Boom. Reset of the Propeller.
In my opinion ALL Propeller Boards (with USB or not) should have a jumper to connect/disconnect reset between USB and the Prop. Enable programming. Like on the Spinneret. There you have the jumper, even if the Spinneret does not have USB.
I am not against USB on board in general. But 'USB less' boards are simply cheaper. And everybody needs a couple of PropPlugs anyways for ad hoc serial to any pin of the Propeller for testing or so.
Thanks again for keeping the Proto Board without USB.
Enjoy!
Mike
My first Propeller Project Board arrived in the mail just moments ago, ahead of the expected scheduled delivery time.
I had to order the Propeller Project Board, since the Propeller Proto Board is no longer available, which is really quite disappointing, but I will do my best to give the Project Board a fair shake. At first glance, the only benefit that I see for my needs is the switching regulator and the ability to have a larger voltage supply, however, that may change as I become better acquainted with the board.
I will let you know the outcome
While I loved the Proto Board, I have done a few projects with the Project Board. I have grown to like it. I like the Quick Start connectors on it.
I think you will be pleased.
Yea, I don't have much use for that, but I do like that it comes basically microSD ready.
I saw an ADS1015 ADC on the first pic. I've been messing with one and getting nowhere... Mind sharing the code?
Yes, but I got to run for now. I will look it up when I get back home in an hour or so. The code I have is written in C.
This code was obtained from adafruit and ported from mbed to run with simpleIDE. It includes support for reading two thermistors, however you may not need that and it can be removed.
If you need additional help in how to use the code, I could help... just ask. And please let me know how it works for you.