Bruce, why don't you start another thread with a poll for the Proto Board to continue?
I do not believe that will be necessary. The Proto Board is already designed and it sells. As it has been mentioned, keep them both, because they each have their functions, pluses, and minuses. Neither the Project Board or the Proto Board is perfect for all uses and neither one will ever be perfect for all uses.
Keep both of them and eliminate some other design.
I see the logic in reducing the number of boards to stock. Proto board USB no longer makes sense. The plain proto board that uses prop key is a nice bargain item.
I see the logic in reducing the number of boards to stock. Proto board USB no longer makes sense. The plain proto board that uses prop key is a nice bargain item.
A dongle is a small piece of hardware that attaches to computer, TV, or other electronic device, and that, when attached, enables additional functions such as copy protection, audio, video, games, data, or other services. These services are available only when the dongle is attached.
I hate dongle's, nothing worse than losing your dongle.
I bought a Prop Plug, and five of the Proto boards without USB.. Can I trade them all in for Three USB Proto boards?
The Prop Plug is a misery to me. It is never there when I need it, I still flip and flop the thing around hoping I plugged it in correctly.
I understand Parallax would like to sell Prop Plugs by the millions, and don't blame them for that. It's a classic bit for to make money, That's a good thing.
But, if I have a choice, I will never buy anything with a dongle again. It's just one more thing to keep track of.
Anyway, I think the USB Proto Board makes alot of sense to keep around, And hope it stays around for a long time to come.
I hate dongle's, nothing worse than losing your dongle.
I bought a Prop Plug, and five of the Proto boards without USB.. Can I trade them all in for Three USB Proto boards?
The Prop Plug is a misery to me. It is never there when I need it, I still flip and flop the thing around hoping I plugged it in correctly.
I understand Parallax would like to sell Prop Plugs by the millions, and don't blame them for that. It's a classic bit for to make money, That's a good thing.
But, if I have a choice, I will never buy anything with a dongle again. It's just one more thing to keep track of.
Anyway, I think the USB Proto Board makes alot of sense to keep around, And hope it stays around for a long time to come.
I agree. I'll only make this board if it has built-in USB.
Ken Gracey
BOOO!!! :-)
I have to admit I have more then one prop plug and like using it on boards that I make. My eyes aren't nearly good enough to work with SMD which means that working with the FTDI chips isn't an option. I hope that Parallax plans to at least make the prop plug for the foreseeable future and lets me know before they stop making it so I can stock up on a lifetime supply!
The Propeller Mini is awesome! 7/8" X 1.5" With Voltage Regulators! Hard to find a smaller form factor than that.
It is so small in fact, that it is missing 9 I/O pins, Hats off to the Layout guy, I would not have the self discipline to leave those off the board,
And I would be driven insane trying to route them... It kinda makes me crazy thinking about it now, Come on Tommy, just nine more holes to go.. I can do this..:zombie:
I have been against Dongles ever since I misplaced the first one, 20 minutes and still couldn't find it anywhere on my desk,
Until I looked up at the end of a USB cable, hanging high on the desk lamp...So I wouldn't lose it...(Sigh..)
And I would like to see all the hardware needed to make a USB connection to all the boards that I design available on a small DIP board so that I can incorporate the USB connection on my boards.
It seems outlandish that this is not already the case.
H
Actually this board almost, already exists.
It is the Prop plug. So profits should not be a problem.
Its a "convenience for the designer" of new boards issue.
All they have to do is take off the 4 pin socket and provide four holes on the board itself 0.1 inches on center and it would do it.
Two more pins to stabilize the mounting on my board would be nice
The components are too small for placement manually.
But now, if I have a bunch of Propeller boards, as many people do, what is more convenient and cheap? A single Prop Plug with it's 4 pin header connection that I can move from board to board, or a PropPlug module welded to every board?
I have been against Dongles ever since I misplaced the first one, 20 minutes and still couldn't find it anywhere on my desk,
Until I looked up at the end of a USB cable, hanging high on the desk lamp...So I wouldn't lose it...(Sigh..
When I design a board for a customer, I want to be able to send him a file
to update the software if and when necessary.
I don't want to have to send him a PPlug also.
Besides, its one more thing to lose as mentioned by others.
Adding $15 to the cost of a project is trivial. The convenience is priceless.
But now, if I have a bunch of Propeller boards, as many people do, what is more convenient and cheap? A single Prop Plug with it's 4 pin header connection that I can move from board to board, or a PropPlug module welded to every board?
I put the header on the board and plug in the prop plug as needed.
While it's never happened to me I remember in the past reading that people at times have had issues with prop programs that output debug data to the serial port when not plugged into a computer. Not sure it's that's the case anymore but something I'm not interested in having to deal with it.
So why not design the required USB/serial hardware onto the board itself rather than add an expensive and clumsy piggy back module? The convenience of that is better at both ends of the deal.
And I would like to see all the hardware needed to make a USB connection to all the boards that I design available on a small DIP board so that I can incorporate the USB connection on my boards.
It seems outlandish that this is not already the case.
H
There are quite a few FTDI Breakout boards available from Sparkfun, Gravitech, Linksprite, Adafruit, etc. Most use the FT232R in the SSOP package and run anywhere from $12 to $15. If you do a Google image search for "FT232R Breakout" you will see a variety of options.
There are quite a few FTDI Breakout boards available from Sparkfun, Gravitech, Linksprite, Adafruit, etc. Most use the FT232R in the SSOP package and run anywhere from $12 to $15. If you do a Google image search for "FT232R Breakout" you will see a variety of options.
You should be able to get them for a lot less than $12.
(I"m pretty sure the cheap boards will work with the Prop but I'm not positive. I can test one of mine if anyone is interested.)
I generally have 4-5 dongles in play at any one time. Generally 2-3 are in the "Universe of Lost Socks" and the other two can be found within a few minutes. (2-3 dongles seem to work for the USB/Serial connector you need for the S2)
The biggest benefit I find with USB boards versus PropPlug boards is the USB provides POWER! The PropPlug still requires you to provide power and adds an extra cable or battery box to the workspace. It's very handy to be able to grap a Propeller board and plug it into your PC and play without hunting for a power supply.
I've been using the USB/TTL dongles on other boards and they are nice since they do have power available.
I've never used either of these boards in a project (but I won both) - my first impression is I like the larger, open, more contiguous prototyping space. I apparently need to build more hardware prototypes.
Generally, they will work if they have an RTS (or DTR) output, and a driver. I've used a lot of FTDI based "breakouts" to program props.
Note the real cheap ones with an "RST" pin will NOT work - that pin is for resetting the USB chip (what a waste). I found this out after importing over 100 of them, fortunately they are still useful for other applications.
See #43, the SMT components are way too small to be placed manually.
The solutions illustrated above work but are not clean enough for a customer.
OK for experimenters though. A clean piggy back instalation would be acceptable.
A one-off project for one's own use, sure.
$15 profit lost on every sale, not trivial at all.
Of course, adding USB to a Chinese Arduino (using the CH340G) only adds about $1 to the cost of the board.
If that's all USB contributed to the purchase price of a Propeller board, it wouldn't be so much of an issue.
So has Parallax said what dev board they are going to make?
A one point i thought if Parallax came out with a product, like the USB Proto board, they would keep it forever. I guess i just thought customer would not have to face end of life so soon with Parallax. It was one of he endearing qualities of the company. Look at long the Basic Stamp has been around.
Does this mean the Prop 1 chip will be stopped after Prop 2 comes out?
That is not really fair to compare the microprocessor chips and the accessory boards like that!!
The way I see it, Parallax has always been very clear about it's commitment to supplying the core chips. Essentially the Prop1 "forever", regardless of any future version. If you need some evidence of how seriously Parallax takes the longevity of supply, consider the Basic Stamp that you mentioned, and also the SX. Both are very old microprocessors, and both are still stocked by Parallax for its customers.
As for accessory boards, such as the “USB proto board” et-al; of course these will go through re-designs from time to time. And even new products will become available, such as the “project board” and “BOE”.
Surely this thread serves testament to how seriously Parallax considers customer opinion; even the company president has indicated that comments here very much help Parallax determine the customer needs.
Parallax continues to be open, to consider opinion, and to make the best business choices based on need and usefulness, not fear. With this, Parallax and the Propeller will always be.
Clearly as much as I do, I really hope you can “feel the trust” that Parallax shares with the community!
Prop-1 is here to stay!
ps. As you asked, and as I recall, an earlier post mentioned the meeting about board choices was scheduled for Wednesday (tomorrow). Hope that helps.
Comments
I do not believe that will be necessary. The Proto Board is already designed and it sells. As it has been mentioned, keep them both, because they each have their functions, pluses, and minuses. Neither the Project Board or the Proto Board is perfect for all uses and neither one will ever be perfect for all uses.
Keep both of them and eliminate some other design.
+1
@ Mag748... LOL @ 'coasterization' & 'robustified'
I bought a Prop Plug, and five of the Proto boards without USB.. Can I trade them all in for Three USB Proto boards?
The Prop Plug is a misery to me. It is never there when I need it, I still flip and flop the thing around hoping I plugged it in correctly.
I understand Parallax would like to sell Prop Plugs by the millions, and don't blame them for that. It's a classic bit for to make money, That's a good thing.
But, if I have a choice, I will never buy anything with a dongle again. It's just one more thing to keep track of.
Anyway, I think the USB Proto Board makes alot of sense to keep around, And hope it stays around for a long time to come.
-Tommy
H
I agree. I'll only make this board if it has built-in USB.
Ken Gracey
Tommy,
I guess the Propeller Mini is off you list?
BOOO!!! :-)
I have to admit I have more then one prop plug and like using it on boards that I make. My eyes aren't nearly good enough to work with SMD which means that working with the FTDI chips isn't an option. I hope that Parallax plans to at least make the prop plug for the foreseeable future and lets me know before they stop making it so I can stock up on a lifetime supply!
It is so small in fact, that it is missing 9 I/O pins, Hats off to the Layout guy, I would not have the self discipline to leave those off the board,
And I would be driven insane trying to route them... It kinda makes me crazy thinking about it now, Come on Tommy, just nine more holes to go.. I can do this..:zombie:
I have been against Dongles ever since I misplaced the first one, 20 minutes and still couldn't find it anywhere on my desk,
Until I looked up at the end of a USB cable, hanging high on the desk lamp...So I wouldn't lose it...(Sigh..)
-Tommy
It seems outlandish that this is not already the case.
H
That is such a common requirement that there are many such boards in existence. For example :
https://www.sparkfun.com/products/718
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4368532
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4368532
And so on and so on.
if you are asking if Parallax should make such a thing, well I guess they would have a hard time making any money out of it.
Perhaps a better idea is just to add that hardware to the boards you design. That would be far cheaper.
Actually this board almost, already exists.
It is the Prop plug. So profits should not be a problem.
Its a "convenience for the designer" of new boards issue.
All they have to do is take off the 4 pin socket and provide four holes on the board itself 0.1 inches on center and it would do it.
Two more pins to stabilize the mounting on my board would be nice
The components are too small for placement manually.
H
But now, if I have a bunch of Propeller boards, as many people do, what is more convenient and cheap? A single Prop Plug with it's 4 pin header connection that I can move from board to board, or a PropPlug module welded to every board?
ROFL!! That's why you need 4-5 of them!!
When I design a board for a customer, I want to be able to send him a file
to update the software if and when necessary.
I don't want to have to send him a PPlug also.
Besides, its one more thing to lose as mentioned by others.
Adding $15 to the cost of a project is trivial. The convenience is priceless.
H
I put the header on the board and plug in the prop plug as needed.
While it's never happened to me I remember in the past reading that people at times have had issues with prop programs that output debug data to the serial port when not plugged into a computer. Not sure it's that's the case anymore but something I'm not interested in having to deal with it.
So why not design the required USB/serial hardware onto the board itself rather than add an expensive and clumsy piggy back module? The convenience of that is better at both ends of the deal.
Agreed.
And if you're really cheap frugal you can "harvest" Prop Plugs from USB Proto Boards.
and use then with your non-USB boards.
At any given time I've usually misplaced 3 or so of my Prop Plugs but I usually have a couple others I can easily find.
Of course now you can find FTDI devices on ebay for just a few dollars.
I wonder how hard it would be to cut the Project board's USB circuit out to use as a DIY Prop Plug?
There are quite a few FTDI Breakout boards available from Sparkfun, Gravitech, Linksprite, Adafruit, etc. Most use the FT232R in the SSOP package and run anywhere from $12 to $15. If you do a Google image search for "FT232R Breakout" you will see a variety of options.
You should be able to get them for a lot less than $12.
(I"m pretty sure the cheap boards will work with the Prop but I'm not positive. I can test one of mine if anyone is interested.)
The biggest benefit I find with USB boards versus PropPlug boards is the USB provides POWER! The PropPlug still requires you to provide power and adds an extra cable or battery box to the workspace. It's very handy to be able to grap a Propeller board and plug it into your PC and play without hunting for a power supply.
I've been using the USB/TTL dongles on other boards and they are nice since they do have power available.
I've never used either of these boards in a project (but I won both) - my first impression is I like the larger, open, more contiguous prototyping space. I apparently need to build more hardware prototypes.
Note the real cheap ones with an "RST" pin will NOT work - that pin is for resetting the USB chip (what a waste). I found this out after importing over 100 of them, fortunately they are still useful for other applications.
See #43, the SMT components are way too small to be placed manually.
The solutions illustrated above work but are not clean enough for a customer.
OK for experimenters though. A clean piggy back instalation would be acceptable.
H
A one-off project for one's own use, sure.
$15 profit lost on every sale, not trivial at all.
Of course, adding USB to a Chinese Arduino (using the CH340G) only adds about $1 to the cost of the board.
If that's all USB contributed to the purchase price of a Propeller board, it wouldn't be so much of an issue.
Possibly cheaper and for sure way easier..
Massimo
A one point i thought if Parallax came out with a product, like the USB Proto board, they would keep it forever. I guess i just thought customer would not have to face end of life so soon with Parallax. It was one of he endearing qualities of the company. Look at long the Basic Stamp has been around.
Does this mean the Prop 1 chip will be stopped after Prop 2 comes out?
cheers,
rich
That is not really fair to compare the microprocessor chips and the accessory boards like that!!
The way I see it, Parallax has always been very clear about it's commitment to supplying the core chips. Essentially the Prop1 "forever", regardless of any future version. If you need some evidence of how seriously Parallax takes the longevity of supply, consider the Basic Stamp that you mentioned, and also the SX. Both are very old microprocessors, and both are still stocked by Parallax for its customers.
As for accessory boards, such as the “USB proto board” et-al; of course these will go through re-designs from time to time. And even new products will become available, such as the “project board” and “BOE”.
Surely this thread serves testament to how seriously Parallax considers customer opinion; even the company president has indicated that comments here very much help Parallax determine the customer needs.
Parallax continues to be open, to consider opinion, and to make the best business choices based on need and usefulness, not fear. With this, Parallax and the Propeller will always be.
Clearly as much as I do, I really hope you can “feel the trust” that Parallax shares with the community!
Prop-1 is here to stay!
ps. As you asked, and as I recall, an earlier post mentioned the meeting about board choices was scheduled for Wednesday (tomorrow). Hope that helps.
I will be more fair.
Thanks for shaking me.
rich