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Wire Wrapping - Page 2 — Parallax Forums

Wire Wrapping

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  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-07 10:32
    erco,


    Dogpile here again (How many posts constitutes a "dogpile"?).


    Anyway:
    ...that's a great example of a beautiful professional wire wrap job.
    I'm not so sure about the "professional" part, that is a home brew computer after all.


    In my decades of rubbing shoulders with software and hardware engineers it's not clear that the best work is done by "professionals". Professionals are not necessarily anymore skillful than amateurs. The only difference is that professionals get paid and they are under pressure to ship whatever works. The amateur, especially if he is showing off his work to the world, takes pride in what he does.


    Same applies to professional vs amateur plumbers, electricians, car mechanics etc etc.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2014-07-07 10:35
    PJ Allen wrote: »
    wire-wrap tech -1
    #30 wire-wrap wire for point-to-point soldering +1

    Feel free to park the wire-wrap tools and sockets next to the churn and the spinning wheel.

    Don't forget the mortar and pestle. I have loved the idea, hated the expense, and always felt that I missed out by not buying a power wire wrapping tool when I saw them in flea markets for about $10 each. Now we have SMD and nothing to wrap.

    And I do have a hand wrapping/unwrapping tool, a few IC sockets, and four spools of different color #30 wire.

    Professionals always have their price. Others might have loftier goals.
  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2014-07-07 11:47
    @ heater - beautifully done!

    @ rick - touch
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-07 11:55
    Whit,

    No, no, that was not my wire wrapping in the pictures. But, yeah, that's how it looked when we did it back in the late 1970's.

    I'm getting all itchy to do it again now...
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2014-07-07 12:39
    No matter how pretty it is in daylight, wirewrap loses all charm when it's 2AM, the customer is borderline frantic and you're staring at a 3 foot x 4 foot wire wrapped backplane holding a piece of paper with two pin coordinates on it, a tool and a spool of wire.

    Memories like that cure my itchies!!
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2014-07-07 15:46
    Whit wrote: »
    @ erco - a modern car is more practical, but a Corvair is fun!

    Er, no. Ask Ernie Kovacs.

    Had he been driving his Rolls instead of his Corvair station wagon on that fateful 1962 day, he might have lived a little longer. I don't know Erco's vintage, but if it has that swing axle, and if the tires aren't properly inflated front-rear, I hope he never gets the thing fixed to drivable condition again. Kovac's accident happened in exactly the situation in which the first generation Corvair's were considered the most dangerous -- slick road, tight turn, and unknown tire pressures.
  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,983
    edited 2014-07-07 16:05
    oh, the memories.......AN/UYK-7 WW backplanes, Display Generator Unit (aka DGU A water cooled box of 4*6 flatpack loaded boards mounted in wire wrap backplanes) fun stuff then. Really liked using wiremaster. Agree with Phil on the overpriced chunk of metal. My old Gardener Denver failed, so I found a replacement on ebay. $25.00 with 20' cord on it. Must have been surplus from telco or somewhere to have that long tail on it. Only did it because my wrap bit would do a modified cut/strip/wrap automatically. Fry's, JameCo etc carried the precut stripped lengths, but I never liked the appearance of the job, always longer than the connection. Looked sloppy at best. Gardner Denver right length every time.

    The slit and wrap tool was ok new, good gas tight wraps, but did not trust it to always slit after a while of use. Used to go scrounging behind some of the places in Santa Clara. Best find was some prototype boards with tons of pins on them. Gold plated machine socket pins. Still have some of them. Lots of chips (TTL) as well. Only had to unwrap and punch out the pins.
  • tomcrawfordtomcrawford Posts: 1,126
    edited 2014-07-07 16:38
    Here is the backside of THE first evaluation board for the AMD QPDM. It was done on a store-bought S100 wire-wrap card. Note the dead bug center top. Check out the solder-wik ground plane. Observe the 44(?)-pin wire-wrap socket on the left. tc
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  • Dave HeinDave Hein Posts: 6,347
    edited 2014-07-08 06:48
    So what did you guys use to strip the insulation off the end of the wire? When I did lots of wire-wrapping 35 years ago we used a thermal wire stripper that consisted of a couple of nichrome wires. The heated nichrome wires were squeeze together on the wire, and melt through the insulation, which then allowed it to be easily pulled off. I also used mechanical wire strippers like the one on the Radio Shack tool, but they tend to nick the wire, causing it to break when wrapping it on the pin.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2014-07-08 07:13
    Well there was the little wrapper tools as shown by Phil above that also have a little stripping slot thing.

    We had hand held tools that you squeezed like big pliers, they would grip the wire, cut the insulation and strip it off all in one action. Horribly expensive things they were too.
  • cruXiblecruXible Posts: 78
    edited 2015-06-06 15:42
    I just tried wire wrapping for the first time. It is nice to not have fumes or flux to clean for once. Rework is also less messy. It is a bit more time consuming than soldering, but not terribly so.
  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,983
    edited 2015-06-06 19:35
    WireMaster used to sort the connections in the wirelist to require the fewest unwraps to make modifications.

    Also, just looking back in the thread, the wire-wrapped board called out is a few pins short of being an S-100. It appears to be an ISA bus wire wrap board.

    Frank
  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2015-06-06 19:38
    Thanks cruXible! Was just thinking about this again recently. Still looks fun to me, but still never tried it.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2015-06-06 19:49
    I've never wire wrapped, but recently I started using wire wrap wire for point-to-point wiring on projects. Wire is cheap, tiny, insulated, lays flat, fine for most low-current apps. My $7, 305-meter spool should last a while. Available in lots of colors.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/121638735959
  • Mark_TMark_T Posts: 1,981
    edited 2015-06-07 03:36
    I did a wire-wrap testpiece for a job many many years ago. I absolutely hate staring at hundreds
    of sharp spikes, I find it deeply unpleasant, like being face down above a bed of nails.
  • wasswass Posts: 151
    edited 2015-06-07 08:49
    Nice find Erco!

    I've been doing the same thing too with some recent projects. The standard Kynar (PVDF) coated wrapping wire is quite expensive and difficult to strip. This says it's PVC (at least the other colors do), is it easier to strip and just as thin? BTW, other ebay sellers have the full RETMA color code selection available (for more money).
  • tomcrawfordtomcrawford Posts: 1,126
    edited 2015-06-07 08:50
    Also, just looking back in the thread, the wire-wrapped board called out is a few pins short of being an S-100. It appears to be an ISA bus wire wrap board.

    Frank

    Frank is correct, of course. It *is* ISA Bus. I don't know whether I had a senior moment or a brain f*rt.
  • Clock LoopClock Loop Posts: 2,069
    edited 2015-06-07 11:36
    When poor, having someone give you a wire wrap kit, and some wire wrap sockets, enables you to get started without solder.



    This prototype was used for a el wire glow suit worn by a dancer. The wire wrap never stopped working under very random vibrational movements of the dancer.

    This box was mounted to the dancers upper chest.

    This design uses entirely discreet logic.
    Really it was just a state machine operated by 6 different 3-way switches.

    attachment.php?attachmentid=114431&d=1433702204
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  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-06-07 11:50
    Clock Loop,

    I don't see any wire wrap in the picture you posted above.
  • GordonMcCombGordonMcComb Posts: 3,366
    edited 2015-06-07 12:07
    The pins look to be clipped off right at the wrap. You can see the coils of the wire at the surface of the board.

    It also appears that at least some of the wire has been soldered onto the pins. I used to do that, too, as an extra precaution.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2015-06-07 12:36
    Maybe my eyesight is shot but I don't see that here.

    If you are going to start soldering, why wire wrap?

    Wire wrap is very reliable, a vibration table will bust a soldered joint before a wire wrap.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2015-06-07 13:22
    wass wrote: »
    This says it's PVC (at least the other colors do), is it easier to strip and just as thin?

    I haven't used kynar wire, but IMO this stuff is thin and easy to strip. I measure 0.20 mm wire diameter and 0.62mm insulation diameter. And for some reason, blue seems to be consistently cheaper than other colors.
  • wasswass Posts: 151
    edited 2015-06-07 20:12
    erco wrote: »
    I haven't used kynar wire, but IMO this stuff is thin and easy to strip. I measure 0.20 mm wire diameter and 0.62mm insulation diameter. And for some reason, blue seems to be consistently cheaper than other colors.

    The Kynar insulation seems to be thinner. On 28 AWG wire I measure 0.32mm for just the wire and 0.58mm with insulation. If I had 30 AWG I would guess it would measure only 0.40 insulation diameter. Probably not any practical difference for most projects though.

    Is blue considered bad luck in China? I know that red, yellow and green are good luck there.
  • Buck RogersBuck Rogers Posts: 2,185
    edited 2015-06-07 20:32
    Whit wrote: »
    Hey All,

    I was just reading up on Wire Wrapping for prototyping - the tools, materials, etc...

    Do any of you use wire wrapping for your projects? If you do, what are your thoughts on modified (that is wrapping with a couple of turns of insulated wire) vs. regular wire wrapping (i.e., wrapping only the stripped wire). I understand that the modified method is for situation where there is vibration.

    I didn't know if the amount of vibration in robotics applications would be enough to warrant the modified method.

    Any advice from those who are more experienced would be appreciated.

    WireWrap.JPG

    Hello!
    If I remember correctly, the modified one was developed for the military. Some computers who wore such garb were wired that way. However when it comes to wire wrapping, I normally use the standard one. And indeed all of my supplies originally came from Radio Shack. Those amphibians were surprised to see people buying it. And I still do whenever possible.

    And indeed my first Basic Stamp 1 carrier board was wired that way. Now I've moved on and am still using the same methods
    attachment.php?attachmentid=114434&d=1433733981

    What is shown there is a Basic Stamp 1 carrier board wire wrapped to two eight pin headers, borrowed from the Arduino family of boards. Top one is the ground. Bottom one matches the output pins.
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  • frank freedmanfrank freedman Posts: 1,983
    edited 2015-06-07 22:02
    Heater. wrote: »
    Maybe my eyesight is shot but I don't see that here.

    If you are going to start soldering, why wire wrap?

    Wire wrap is very reliable, a vibration table will bust a soldered joint before a wire wrap.

    looks like a combination of wirewrap and bug mounts. may only get one to three loops on a chip leg so solder would likely be needed to keep it in place. I would hate to have to do any rework on that peice..... But an interesting bit of work in any case......
  • LeonLeon Posts: 7,620
    edited 2015-06-08 01:12
    Whit wrote: »
    Hey All,

    I was just reading up on Wire Wrapping for prototyping - the tools, materials, etc...

    Do any of you use wire wrapping for your projects? If you do, what are your thoughts on modified (that is wrapping with a couple of turns of insulated wire) vs. regular wire wrapping (i.e., wrapping only the stripped wire). I understand that the modified method is for situation where there is vibration.

    I didn't know if the amount of vibration in robotics applications would be enough to warrant the modified method.

    Any advice from those who are more experienced would be appreciated.

    WireWrap.JPG

    The modified wrap is simply more reliable, it's not just for where there is vibration. I always used it.

    Leon
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2015-06-08 20:13
    One of my early wire wrap projects was an interface between a centronics printer port on a mini and a card punch. It was done with the standard wire wrap tool and it worked fine for a few months before it started acting up. I was sure the cause of it was bad connections caused by the vibration from the card punch so I soldered all the connections (about 50 - 60 ttl chips) and the problems went away.....for a while.

    This time the problem was wires that broke off at the socket pins, so I wrapped a new and improved board (about 40 chips) using the new and improved wire wrap tool and wrapping method. That lasted over 4 years (vs about a year for v1). That was replaced with a 5 chip pcb built around a Z80 and was never heard from again.

    Still have that wire wrap tool in my parts cabinet.
  • cruXiblecruXible Posts: 78
    edited 2015-06-08 23:04
    Here is what I bought to get me going. The spool comes with black, brown, red, orange, yellow, green, blue and violet. The eight colors come in handy for keeping track of connections, especially eight bit parallel. So far, the modified wrap seems the most trustworthy.

    attachment.php?attachmentid=114446&d=1433829868

    Edited_ImageEasyImageEditor_20150608_5.jpg
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2015-06-09 08:59
    Daddy likes that rainbow wrap, cruXible! Where from?
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2015-06-09 09:06
    erco wrote: »
    Daddy likes that rainbow wrap, cruXible! Where from?

    Looks like one supplier:

    http://www.goodluckbuy.com/wrapping-wire-wrap-multicolor-300-meters-awg30-cable.html

    G
    ood Luck Buy? :)
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