Russia Bans U.S. From International Space Station
Ron Czapala
Posts: 2,418
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/06/22/russia-bans-us-from-international-space-station-am.aspx
How did we let ourselves become dependent on Russia for rocket engines?!?!?
How did we let ourselves become dependent on Russia for rocket engines?!?!?
Since the United States terminated its space shuttle program, we've depended on Russian rockets to carry U.S. astronauts to the ISS. NASA has a contract to continue these flights through 2016...
An even more immediate problem facing America is Russia's threat to cut off access to the RD-180 rocket engines that the United Launch Alliance (the joint venture between Boeing (NYSE: BA ) and Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT ) ) uses in its Atlas V rockets. These are the big beasts that carry U.S. military satellites into space. They're critical to national security. But we've only got enough RD-180s stockpiled to keep ULA supplied for about another 22 months.
Comments
How could this happen? Generosity and goodwill toward Russia. At least diplomatic efforts on the US side are attempted.
It also seems that we are trying to move satellites into space via other means than these huge rockets and getting closer to doing so. This stuff is expensive and wasteful at this point.
Rhetoric of blame and shame are not going to solve much. This is all too political for me to say more than the obvious -- the USA has pushed Russia into a corner and Russia has pushed back. I'd rather not see us revive the Cold War. Missiles will be available. These defense contractors have scheduling and procurment alternatives going out 5 or 10 years.
Valid points Loopy, but the situation does point out the dangers of relying on a source over which you have little influence for critical materials. Outsourcing in the global economy is a two edged sword.
-Phil
Seems Russia has a handle on that idea now as well: http://en.itar-tass.com/economy/736804
Reviving the name Stalingrand for what has become known as Volgograd, is an obvious taunt and attempt to revive Cold War tensions.
https://news.yahoo.com/russian-leadership-backs-restoration-stalingrad-name-164807346.html
It is just too easy to polarize into various camps with armed conflict. I have no idea if this will blow over or it the beginning of a new chapter in global tensions. But there does seem to be a lot of unresolved history with both Russia and China. The USA claims to have won WWII, but Russia provided some of the bloodiest fighting with far more soldiers lost. They made D-Day possible. China's view of fighting Japan is also that they took the higher casualties, but it is a bit more complicated by fighting the Japanese and having a Civil War at the same time.
In sum, we might find both Russia and China easier to deal with if we better acknowledged their contributions to the defeat of Germany and Japan. But it is very late to being doing so. The Korean War pretty much forced us to discount whatever they did in WWII.
We are not totally dependent on Intel and Microsoft for the world's computing infrastructure. The desktop, servers, and supercomputers use a lot of Intel chips but there are alternatives. Those are being implemented by some, and seriously considered by many more. There is also quite a bit of non Intel/MS in things like routers, switches, etc. Mind you, it would be painful if the whole world had to switch for some reason.
It is not that American people are more or less stupid then people in Asia, Europe or China. It is a VALUE problem. As in morals and values. Back in the 50s and 60s things where different. One parent was working and able to feed a family of 4 or 6. The other parent was able to watch over the education of their children. There was something like a middle class and when you 'played by the rules', finished you education and worked your way thru a couple of jobs you where able to get there.
Slowly that faded away step by step.
Now a lot of public schools are in a worse state and having a good education is not just very expensive, its not cool? 15-20% analphabetism is acceptable? Not being able to multiply and divide by Hand is acceptable? Not being able to even name the Country's of the Americas or find Australia on a Globe the norm? You find tons of people being able to tell you what player in what game won what super bowl when and where. Ask them to name the last 4 Presidents and you receive blank stares.
First came outsourcing. The big company thing. Buy global. Then came China with cheap mass production. Somebody here on the forum stated that he was not able to find a source for American made ball bearings. Building another Space Shuttle seems far ahead of that. Look at the engine room of your American made car (if you drive one). Alternator, Starter, Lights look all over it to find something with made in USA on it. Not a lot of things are manufactured at all in America anymore. Maybe assembled.
People buy cheap. The Erco thing. Thanks for Parallax being different there. I am glad to pay more for the stuff as elsewhere. Keeps American production and some skilled workers alive.
Yes, there are company's like Boing whit thousands of skilled American people working there.
But if - lets say Singapore, Korea and China would simply stop do deliver components like switches, connectors, Gauges. Not even electronics. Just simple hardware.
I guess no new Boing (or Airbus, doesn't matter) will roll anywhere in about 2 month. No inventory anymore. Stop working.
Like @Phil do I not really care if there is a ISS or not. 50 years ago we put men in orbit and later to the moon. And for a while now we are not able to even put somebody into orbit anymore. Its just the Russians and the Chinese. I really find this scary.
Mike
This time around they can license the architecture design from ARM in England and add whatever they want in the same way Apple or Samsung does. Everything above board and supported properly.
Times have changed a bit since I started bashing on the Wintel dependency back in the 1990's. In those days everyone looked at me as if I was crazy, things like Linux were mostly unknown and there was no Android etc.
Today, most of the worlds Wintel users could be flipped over to Linux and some other CPU architecture without even noticing. Things are improving in that respect.
I disagree!
Good to have you back here. I was already tempted to write a Biography... Now you can do that on your own.
Enjoy!
Mike
And then we need to begin the process of decommissioning the ISS, and get back to the moon, and then to Mars. Of course in parallel we need to continue our robotic space exploration as well.
We aren't selling as many desktop PCs and the biggest share of new processors seems to be mobile devices. But when you add all that in, articles are claiming that on a global sales basis world-wide, ARM/AVR has a huge lead.. maybe even 95% at this point.
So Russia is producing a computer based on the ARM/AVR licenses. If it had something entirely new, I'd be impressed. But it is just going with what is currently available.. and likely Linux for its OS. Yawn. I suspect that the chips will actually be made in Taiwan, regardless of what Russia might like us to believe.
Russia and China are living in the past and trying to keep their populations happy by glorifying the past. Hopefully we don't have to do the same.
I suspect NASA's halcyon days are long gone the majority of the questions we had about space have been adequately answered. It is really time to focus on making this planet a safer saner world. And that means we all have to put history in a proper perspective or suffer conflicts because of the resentments that arise.
These problems of cultural differences have been around for a long time. If you read Marco Polo's book, the Muslim problem was pretty much the same as it is today. The fact that two-thirds of the world are supposedly Muslim doesn't make me feel any more secure.
All the permanent members of the UN Security Council are the world leaders in making weapons... with the USA ahead of the others. Joseph Conrad in "Lord Jim" said the only good thing about might makes right is when the mighty understand that it is best to not use their might.
Sadly, getting to the Moon might become entirely about establishing a military presence there in response to Russia or China. Go to Mars? For what? We just need to manage the resources we have on Earth in a better fashion.
We don't care about MS but Intel seems to be in good shape for now and does not need MS.
Anyway why mix up such different things like that?
Intel's main business is CPUs for desktop and server computers.
ARM is a processor architecture licensed from ARM Holdings and used by many companies to build micro-controllers and SoCs for mobile devices. The ARM started life as a desktop chip and is gradually working it way back up to there and into servers. See your Cubie board with SATA interfaces, accelerated graphics etc. See the new 64 bit ARMS.
AVR is a processor architecture from ATMEL for dinky little micro-controllers. A totally different category of device.
As for market share ATMEL is down at 7% of micro-controller market. The top dogs are Renesas Electronics and Freescale semiconductor.
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1261398
Currently all my computers are all Intel except whatever the wifi router uses and the CubieBoard.
I though we slid from rockets to processors to software quite gracefully. All connected by a common theme: "Why is the USA falling down?".
The fact that several took the bait and start talking about the decline of the USA is a bit naive. And the concern of what Russia is up to is really sitting on Obama's desk in the Oval Office.
What we don't need is a passionate round of jingoism in the Forum... anything is better than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingoism
The International Space Station was a beautiful dream come true... until the global economic slow down. And now that The G9 has pushed out Russia and gone back to being the G8. Russia quitting cooperation seems to be a logical step.
So the rocket supply contract has been canceled. If Russia wanted to do something really evil, they would have kept the contract and delivered defective rocketry to only be discovered when they blow up on the launch pad.
+++++++++++
I am wrong. Intel's market valuation is higher than ever. (I wish I could figure out the stock market, but I can't get that right either.) Though ARM certainly has found a lot of other ways to sell silicon.
Linux is so lovable that I can't help myself.... self-flagellation is in order. Maybe a bit of defenestration.
Yeah, but we debate the fall of the USA all the time even without this little rocket story.
Intel is in great shape. They are way ahead on the process technology never mind CPU design. They are one of the few chip companies left that own their own FABs.
It's interesting to watch ARM creeping up to desktop and server class machines. Some say that the ARMs low power advantages start to go away at those levels of performance and hence they cannot beat Intel. We shall see.
Not sure what Linux has to do with it. Linux runs on everything!
Heater, you just responded. You didn't bring the subject up.
Apparently the Parallax forums have developed their own variant of Godwin's Law, except instead of Hitler or Nazis, it's Linux vs. Windows.
It's really getting old.
Well, you have got me feeling a bit guilty about being an extreme bore in the Windows vs. Linux theme. I have to admit that I thought it was just all in good fun to pose as a complete Linux bigot. Your point is taken. It isn't funny... maybe only amused myself.
In my defense I will say that both XP and Vista were a huge waste of money for me; so I decided to abandon Windows with extreme prejudice.
I will try to just stick to being factual about how Linux gets things done.
But the truth is this thread never really had any real content to start with. You were bound to be disappointed.
As for the Windows / Linux thing. That is no laughing matter. It's deadly serious. Of course it's not about Windows or Linux. It's about who owns your computer. It's about Free and Open Source software vs closed software dictatorships. It's about control and who has it. Yeah, it's politics.
Agreed!!!
Well, it never really had a chance though - what with your getting in and derailing the deal with your off-topic blather.
No big surprise there.
Just another example of the dangers of single sourcing a resource.
You will find it is because a certain US political party that whines and whines about government waste cut funding for US engine development.
Just think of it as "No Rocket Left Behind..."
Hey Phil..mind expandig on the boondoggle angle you mentioned.
In my experience money is never wasted in when developing new technology.