What I got so far: TM220A= $4000, TM240A= $5000
TM245P_standard= $5600, TM245P_advanced= $6100 (after that both are $400 off until june5)
All adds $600-$700 shipping, $175 customs duty at delivery to DHL
Take paypal/credit card, if you are willing to pay the 3.9% fee. (if your card have 2% kickback could be OK)
free paste jig and reflow oven combo in lien of the $400 discount.
Could people in Seattle fly to China cheaper (plus free vacation) and bring it home as cargo on the plane?
Though the wooden box is huge.
If anyone is interested, I had a look inside. The whole thing looks to run on an STM32F103VET6. There's a very cheap looking 240V aquarium pump providing a whiff of air pressure at 120V, a tiny 24V vacuum pump, a standard switching 24V power supply, and a 6 motor stepper driver board. Very simple, but it works.
Here's some under-the-hood photos of the head design. Neat way to operate two nozzles' Z axis with one stepper. The controller here is also an STM32F103 (C8T6 this time) with two pressure sensors. Underneath is a dual, 2-way solenoid valve block controlling the pos/neg air pressure.
Thanks for posting those pics. I also use the smallest on the left and largest on the right. The small tip will pick up pretty large parts if you go slow.
I used a piece of 1/4 delrin and milled slots in the bottom to match the 2 rods on the machine. I drilled a hole pattern so that I can mount 2 rows of boards( 2x5 ) on the surface, I always use a .14" hole on my boards so a 6-32 will fit. (This board will mount about 6 different boards that are my daily run). Then I put a bunch of 6-32 allen bolts from beneath and they come out of the top by 1/8". Mount the boards right on the screws. Sometimes the threads make you have to press a little, but it is no big deal. I bought some tapered pins but have not yet taken the time to make a new board. The pins are longer than I want so they will have to be ground down which is part of why I am putting it off. The nice thing about the allen bolts is, you can use the same space for various boards, and just adjust the bolts up or down to use different boards so they are not in the way. Using this scheme, you can create files for the machine that are 1 or any multiple array ie 2 x 5 ect. These days I almost just prefer to put on 1 board at a time, as you don't lose any time really making one or 10 since it takes just seconds to pop off a board and put on a new one and press RUN. Also, I am always in a rush and will need maybe 4 different types of boards for a system so it is nice to knock out a set of boards in a half hour including oven time.
You can put some reference holes in the boards so you can mount it back on your CNC to add new boards hole patterns later. I find myself reusing the same hole pattern on new boards when possible, someones only 2 holes that will mate will work fine on a board.
This really beats having to use the metal clips they provide.
I just ordered the TM245P standard (plan to order kit to make it Advance later)
Free stencil-jig and oven in lien of the $400 discount, but bundle saves $600
Total with shipping $6589
Paid online using BankofAmerica, their safepass code (a sms to your phone) lets you do over $5000
The wire fee was $45 and I could not see an option to slowing it down to 1-3 days with a lower fee being available, as it says same day wire transfer after I paid.
Haimi's English is very good, she said they have been doing trade shows and are low on stock so it will take 3days to build and send.
I plan to make many various breakout boards for Propeller and sell to you guys.
Congrats on getting that. The TM245 is incredible. I will swap out my 240A in the coming weeks. It is interesting that when I got my machine the first thing I did was build a base for the boards to sit on. I sent it to them and then they replied that they liked it and then they used it on the new machine.
I was envious of you getting this so I ordered the advanced version with oven and printer. The oven gets bad reviews but I really don't need it if it is a flop. I see guys doing various hacks to it with some options being reprogramming it, others replacing the controller and screen to get the elements to work evenly. Apparently it will reflow well with some tweaks and physical fixes such as removing some tape that melts and smells bad.
As the Advance cost more to ship as it comes in a much bigger box (as these comes fully assembled)
I hope that in end ordering the upgrade kit later will be $500 +$100 shipping so in the end total is the same.
though Advance comes with 2year warranty vs 1 for Standard
Yes the oven seems bad that maybe my household Black&Decker infra oven will still beat it.
Maybe its infra light shines directly on the parts?, so maybe putting in a black metal mesh to transfer light to heat 2 inches above pcb will be good.
Maybe so, I thought about keeping it for backup but I did look online to see what it might sell for. I didn't have any luck finding a used one on Ebay, but I only spend a minute on it.
DHL tracking is not up to par, I did not know that I had to pay duty with a credit card before final leg of the delivery, but nowhere on the tracking page does it show that they have calculated the total and how to pay.
here is the link: http://mypayment.dhl.ca/DHLMyPaymentusa
How the create the CSV files is not well documented.
I was able to edit the included file (comes on the 8gb SD card) to just get it down to 1 circuit of the 0603 at default home location using stack20
youtube link here of it: https://youtu.be/90_p_KvwefQ
Maybe so, I thought about keeping it for backup but I did look online to see what it might sell for. I didn't have any luck finding a used one on Ebay, but I only spend a minute on it.
I told them to hold off shipping mine when I ordered it, I may have it shipped in the next day or so as it looks Like early next week I can take a day to set it up and pull out the other. I do not recall having to pay any duties on the first one I got. Glad you got it going. After a few practice runs, the set up becomes second nature and I find it a breeze now. I use the same csv to create the next board, and just remove and add the new parts to place. On some tapes, you will need to adjust the DragX and DragY to get the needle to go inside the holes in the tape nicely. It is easy to test the needle alignment in the setup screen by selecting the stack from the dropdown menu and pressing the needle button. If you want any help on anything let me know. If you use Eagle, I have a step by step process that works well to get the coordinates out into text form, then import into any excel type app. Once you see the list of parts, you sort it by value, then drag and drop into a preexisting csv file. Very easy stuff.
I may sell my 240 after the new machine arrives and I translate the boards over. I was thinking in the 3500 range. Glad you saw something similar.
I've found that with smaller boards it is easier to use the front panel controls and the "edit" function to place parts. The laser cross-hairs work very well and are accurate. You select the stack with the part you want and then using the directional buttons align the cross-hairs to the PCB pads and then save. You can get into a rhythm and set up a board quickly.
Also pay attention to the height setting for each part. Even parts that don't seem very tall can benefit from upping the Z axes a touch. Otherwise you may find parts squirting out from under the nozzle as it lifts away after placement.
So far I understand that:
# is comment and line is ignored.
A Stack starts with 100, so it's 100xx.
A Circuit (another panel of the same circuit) starts with 102, so it's 102xx.
Component 0 can be used for speed settings.
Copy stack values from the demo file as it includes 0805,0603 and 0402 settings.
what x1,y1 and x2,y2 does most have to do with hole spacing on reel and where center of part is located etc, need experiment with this for unusual reels.
Where stacks are located on the machine must be hardcoded in to firmware.
There is no pcb fiducial(?), use part1 as calibration offset. or can you use skip for part1? and this part is a fiducial marker on pcb
For fiducials I created a cross hair library part for the silk screen. Put one on the lower left of the board, one of upper right. Put the fiducials in as a part to place, but "skip" it. Then, load the board in edit mode. Scroll down to the fiducial 1 and press the button to move the laser to the cross hairs. If it is not right, go to the top line of the csv and adjust the offset. In the TM240A, the offset is the first line as shown below. I understand they have made some changes to the csv format on the 245, and I have only glanced at an example file.
% Origin Offset X Y
65535 0 34.91 77.36
On the 240, the feeding distance is the value used to tell the needle how far to drag the tape for each tape increment. For example, below, 0 is the tray and it is spaced at 18mm apart. Stack 1 2 3 4 etc are for 0603 parts and are 4mm increments.
Component 0 is for speeds 0 - 15. Put it in the line prior to a speed change. You can use the tiny nozzle for larger parts if you go slow.
Here you can see the offsets for the centroid of the part where is sits in the tape. Stack 25 has an offset of .96mm X and .14mm Y.
65535 1 25 0.96 0.14 LM393
65535 1 26 0.56 0 40106
65535 1 27 1.13 0.29 8574
>For fiducials I created a cross hair library part for the silk screen
I would use "pad" as silk screen is applied with inkjet-type printer and can be off a little, a cross-hair from the same stencil as the copper pads must be better.
I used pads forever until recently. You lose some route-able space on a tight board so I changed to silk screen. You can just as easily use the corner of a pad of an 0603 for example.
I just created this one for DipTrace, pretty small (2mm) and pad can be connected to gnd when you look for a spot for it so it does not use up real-estate.
diptrace zipfile below,PasteMask have been disabled for it already.
Any progress on the new machine setup? I hope to find some time towards the end of this week to set mine up. Can I build my own magnetic jigs to sit on the top like you did in that vid? Ifso that is going to be very cool to be able to make custom board holders with pins out the top, held down with magnets. I decided not to keep the tm240.
It looks like they changed the csv format a lot. No more decimal places in the XY. Have you determined what the numbers really equate to in mm since there are no decimals? The 240 uses 2 decimal places in mm.
When you export a pick and place csv file from Diptrace, if you place the origin in the upper left corner and select Use Design Origin.
If you use lower left corner you have to adjust the 180mm OffsetY by subtracting board height.
If you have panelized, you have subtract board height(s) + y spacing + panel boarders.
I have attached a Exel and KingSoft Spreadsheet templates, so select: new from template, place cursor at H1 and import data, select that it's comma delimited.
It converts the default diptrace export and do: x/y*1000 and change angle from 0-359 Subtraction 90Deg as stack is on the left and the adjust to -179/180
Don't forget to assign stack now as you can still see the Part's Name
Thanks, I will be trying to get a system going later today to convert a number of boards from the 240. I see that they are not using decimals. They said "Kindly note for TM220A/240A,normally the value 100 means 1mm,but for TM245P,1000 means 1mm." I am still not clear on how I convert files with 2 decimals to values with no decimals. I use Eagle and it is easy to export with the ULP SMD mount, I can't open your files. Most likely the ULP can be edited to remove the decimals and avoid a manual translation.
The stencil printer is pretty decent. I have used a hand made stencil printer for years and don't give that process a second thought. The oven looks cool but I have no idea how it will work. Most reviews are bad and I don't want to bother with the several retrofits or hacks that are getting good reviews. The TM240 is getting kicked to the curb this weekend if I can get a method to translate the boards easily. Probably put it on ebay.
One easy way to remove decimal point and *10: open the data in spreadsheet, format cells so that it's numbers with 3 decimals points, save as csv.
Open it with notepad, find&replace: "." to ""
If you need kingsoft office it's here: http://wps.com/
The picture attached show the conversion from diptrace data on the right to tm245p data on the left, that has been highlighted and is ready to copy/paste_special (values).
True I can solve how to translate in a spreadsheet but I think what she wrote is not correct. 100 is not 1mm, 1.00 is 1mm. So she must mean that on the 245 that 10.00 is 1mm? The over worked nicely. I did not notice the bad smell that is mentioned in most of the complaints, and I think it did not smell near as bad as my convection oven. It is nice to push one button and leave it alone. The fan does the cooling so it is not needed to break the door. Obviously we knocked a cap over while messing with it.
Comments
TM245P_standard= $5600, TM245P_advanced= $6100 (after that both are $400 off until june5)
All adds $600-$700 shipping, $175 customs duty at delivery to DHL
Take paypal/credit card, if you are willing to pay the 3.9% fee. (if your card have 2% kickback could be OK)
free paste jig and reflow oven combo in lien of the $400 discount.
Could people in Seattle fly to China cheaper (plus free vacation) and bring it home as cargo on the plane?
Though the wooden box is huge.
I did get the password for my unit and it's all dialed in.
You can put some reference holes in the boards so you can mount it back on your CNC to add new boards hole patterns later. I find myself reusing the same hole pattern on new boards when possible, someones only 2 holes that will mate will work fine on a board.
This really beats having to use the metal clips they provide.
Free stencil-jig and oven in lien of the $400 discount, but bundle saves $600
Total with shipping $6589
Paid online using BankofAmerica, their safepass code (a sms to your phone) lets you do over $5000
The wire fee was $45 and I could not see an option to slowing it down to 1-3 days with a lower fee being available, as it says same day wire transfer after I paid.
Haimi's English is very good, she said they have been doing trade shows and are low on stock so it will take 3days to build and send.
I plan to make many various breakout boards for Propeller and sell to you guys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8Tv2DK2v1k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fj3xD2KteqI
I hope that in end ordering the upgrade kit later will be $500 +$100 shipping so in the end total is the same.
though Advance comes with 2year warranty vs 1 for Standard
Yes the oven seems bad that maybe my household Black&Decker infra oven will still beat it.
Maybe its infra light shines directly on the parts?, so maybe putting in a black metal mesh to transfer light to heat 2 inches above pcb will be good.
here is the link: http://mypayment.dhl.ca/DHLMyPaymentusa
How the create the CSV files is not well documented.
I was able to edit the included file (comes on the 8gb SD card) to just get it down to 1 circuit of the 0603 at default home location using stack20
youtube link here of it:
https://youtu.be/90_p_KvwefQ
A 240 sold on eBay for $3600 a few days ago.
I may sell my 240 after the new machine arrives and I translate the boards over. I was thinking in the 3500 range. Glad you saw something similar.
Also pay attention to the height setting for each part. Even parts that don't seem very tall can benefit from upping the Z axes a touch. Otherwise you may find parts squirting out from under the nozzle as it lifts away after placement.
# is comment and line is ignored.
A Stack starts with 100, so it's 100xx.
A Circuit (another panel of the same circuit) starts with 102, so it's 102xx.
Component 0 can be used for speed settings.
Copy stack values from the demo file as it includes 0805,0603 and 0402 settings.
what x1,y1 and x2,y2 does most have to do with hole spacing on reel and where center of part is located etc, need experiment with this for unusual reels.
Where stacks are located on the machine must be hardcoded in to firmware.
There is no pcb fiducial(?), use part1 as calibration offset. or can you use skip for part1? and this part is a fiducial marker on pcb
% Origin Offset X Y
65535 0 34.91 77.36
On the 240, the feeding distance is the value used to tell the needle how far to drag the tape for each tape increment. For example, below, 0 is the tray and it is spaced at 18mm apart. Stack 1 2 3 4 etc are for 0603 parts and are 4mm increments.
% Feeding Set Stack Feed Distance
65535 2 0 18
65535 2 1 4
65535 2 2 4
65535 2 3 4
Component 0 is for speeds 0 - 15. Put it in the line prior to a speed change. You can use the tiny nozzle for larger parts if you go slow.
Here you can see the offsets for the centroid of the part where is sits in the tape. Stack 25 has an offset of .96mm X and .14mm Y.
65535 1 25 0.96 0.14 LM393
65535 1 26 0.56 0 40106
65535 1 27 1.13 0.29 8574
I would use "pad" as silk screen is applied with inkjet-type printer and can be off a little, a cross-hair from the same stencil as the copper pads must be better.
diptrace zipfile below,PasteMask have been disabled for it already.
It looks like they changed the csv format a lot. No more decimal places in the XY. Have you determined what the numbers really equate to in mm since there are no decimals? The 240 uses 2 decimal places in mm.
They include 4 bars and 8 round pegs, all very strong magnetically.
If you use lower left corner you have to adjust the 180mm OffsetY by subtracting board height.
If you have panelized, you have subtract board height(s) + y spacing + panel boarders.
I have attached a Exel and KingSoft Spreadsheet templates, so select: new from template, place cursor at H1 and import data, select that it's comma delimited.
It converts the default diptrace export and do: x/y*1000 and change angle from 0-359 Subtraction 90Deg as stack is on the left and the adjust to -179/180
Don't forget to assign stack now as you can still see the Part's Name
The stencil printer is pretty decent. I have used a hand made stencil printer for years and don't give that process a second thought. The oven looks cool but I have no idea how it will work. Most reviews are bad and I don't want to bother with the several retrofits or hacks that are getting good reviews. The TM240 is getting kicked to the curb this weekend if I can get a method to translate the boards easily. Probably put it on ebay.
Open it with notepad, find&replace: "." to ""
If you need kingsoft office it's here: http://wps.com/
The picture attached show the conversion from diptrace data on the right to tm245p data on the left, that has been highlighted and is ready to copy/paste_special (values).
I understand what you are doing now. Thanks, this is helpful..