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Android a total flop? - Page 3 — Parallax Forums

Android a total flop?

13

Comments

  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-08-16 01:33
    It's irrelevant in any case, it's all about _pairing_ via Bluetooth, and that's something you do once (and you have to be in pairing mode). It's not about someone and everyone being able to bluetooth-access your flush toilet at any time they wish. The real issue is simply that the PIN to use for pairing is 0000, which is basically the case for every keyboard-less bluetooth device out there. At least every single one of that kind which I have owned. The story got it backwards, that it was somehow the Android application which was the problem. It isn't.

    In short, that toilet story is a non-story.

    -Tor
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-23 12:38
    Another android flaw: You can't connect automatically to VPN at startup, to route all your traffic through VPN.
  • mindrobotsmindrobots Posts: 6,506
    edited 2013-08-23 13:02
    I can NEVER connect to my VPN automatically at startup. It's secured by an RS SecureID system. Need to enter PIN (from your head) and random number from FOB. Sounds like Android is SECURE! :smile:
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-23 13:14
    I don't want my VPN on my phone or tab connecting anywhere without my say so and hopefully not without a password or some such authentication. +1 for Android.

    I do have systems in the field that need a VPN on start up.They do not need Android.
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-23 13:42
    haha, and your plaintext auth without vpn flies all over the free wifi hotspots, great. But sounds just in line with "yes we scan" policy.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-23 14:39
    I can assure you that any important "auth" I do does not fly anywhere in plain text.
    Have you not heard of ssh or tls or https?
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-23 21:32
    I do know about https/ssh whatsoever, but pop3 does not knows, so do a lot of webmasters/servers, including facebook and other goodies.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-23 22:04
    That is true, That is why nothing of dire importance goes through my email and I will never have a "FishingBook" account.

    Are you suggesting I encrypt this post?

    I have an encrypted post on this forum already, no one has been able to read it yet:)

    How would it help Android or anyother OS to have an always on, automatic, VPN then?
  • CuriousOneCuriousOne Posts: 931
    edited 2013-08-24 00:01
    Does not being paranoic does not means that you aren't monitored :D
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-08-24 06:07
    CuriousOne wrote: »
    Another android flaw: You can't connect automatically to VPN at startup, to route all your traffic through VPN.
    Yes you can. I use OpenVPN on my Android tablet and there is a setting which will reconnect VPN when restarting the tablet. I don't use it. Instead I tap it on and off as needed. And that's the way to do proper, secure VPN.
    As for your argument about email (well, you mentioned pop3), every serious company or ISP will only allow authenticated/encrypted access to their email servers from outside campus: pop3s, imaps, smtps or tls-smtp. You can access those with or without VPN as you wish of course. And what's the thing about Facebook? Facebook doesn't have a VPN service for their users as far as I know. Oh, you meant public VPN servers meant to make you anonymous? All this is irrelevant. Android has great VPN support built-in, at least from v4.x when OpenVPN got supported.

    I really do not understand why you keep posting these things about Android when you're proven wrong on every account, either on technical issues or in your understanding about how things work. It baffles me. Why? What is it you're trying to do?

    -Tor
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-08-24 08:24
    CuriousOne wrote: »
    What on earth are you talking about? I sit here with a functioning Android tablet which does exactly what you claim it can't do (besides that it's a silly feature), and you claim it can't, based on a web search? I suggest you actually sit down with an Android device and do some research, instead of doing it from the couch with silly web searches. You are not currently living up to your nickname, as you're not particularly curious - if you were, you would have studied what you talk about, and done some thinking through too.

    -Tor
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2013-08-24 08:27
    So far it looks like the short answer to the original question "Android a total flop?" is "No".

    And the long answer is "it works great; but if you want a magic bullet, you have more work ahead".
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-08-24 09:07
    Yep, Android is actually pulling ahead of Apple in user base, but it seems that we have arrived at a point that people are fairly saturated with digital gadgets.. demand has fallen off.

    Some have become irrationally angry with not getting all they dreamed of. I know at times I have slipped into that mode.

    Android 4.xx is pretty good. I just dislike going to an Apps Store. I paid out quite a bit to Palm related apps.

    Personally, I'd rather spend $1,500 USD on a good chair than a good computer at this point. I could spend the next 25 years sitting comfortably.

    In my own case, I just don't want more things to charge and carry. And I certainly don't want to be locked into a big monthly service contract for mobile computing.

    What do I want? Just to learn more about computing. And it seems that the Propeller is quite adequate for that in most instances. If it isn't, the Propeller 2 is coming.

    It is odd how a device that once was a 'business machine' to most of the world has morphed into so many applications and been able to mow down the established advertising, publishing, and music industries along the way.

    I may soon capitualate and get a smartphone.. likely a Samsung device with Android. But it will only be due to the fact that my clamshell cellphone is starting to have bits of it fall away.

    This all leads to a crisis. Why? Well if I buy a touchscreen device with cellphone included I will have to decide whether to retire my Palm Zire72 that has been my trusty Chinese dictionary on the go. That would mean migrating Pleco Dictionary to a new device, and Beiks Dictionary as well.

    The truth is that it has to eventually happen just because nothing lasts forever.

    I am still curious about an announcement that a Taiwanese consortium will be releasing Mozilla as a complete OS in the near future. One has to be very brave, wise, or foolish to try to push another OS into this world at this point.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-24 10:43
    Loopy,
    One has to be very brave, wise, or foolish to try to push another OS into this world at this point.
    I have been wondering about this.
    HP has recently given up on their WebOS.
    But Google is still full speed ahead with Chrome OS, similar in concept to WebOS,
    Mozilla is making a play with their FireFox OS.
    Ubuntu is trying to jump in with "Ubutu Edge"
    There is the ex Nokia guys with a new company "Jolla" and a new OS "Sailfish".
    Oh and then there is MS trying to get in with whatever flavour of Windows Mobile they have this month.

    Luckily there are people so brave, wise or foolish to try such things.

    All I ever wanted was a phone that would run Debian with a phone app thrown in. How hard could that be?
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-08-24 11:00
    Heater,

    The Nokia Maemo phone N900 is exactly that.. or as close as you can get: A Debian-based distro with a window manager specially written with a phone in mind. First based on gtk+, you only have to change a couple of initialisation calls to have your standard gtk+ graphical app running. Later based on Qt.
    I took many of my own programs and built them for my phone. I used just the standard dpkg tools and methods to build .deb files that could be installed with dpkg or apt-get. I could move directly from desktop to phone. My minicomputer emulator, developed on Debian (and *nix) runs unmodified on my phone, just a recompile.
    These phones are not sold anymore, the new CEO (former MS guy) killed the project as soon as he arrived. It's still my best phone though.

    -Tor
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-24 11:14
    Tor,

    Yep, a long time back when I was really keen on the idea I wanted to buy a N900. Could not find one, in frikken Helsinki! The N900 must be a collectors item by now.
    Ended up with a Samsung Galaxy S which I could at least root and get Qt programs running on it. That was very painful and slow going as it was very experimental at the time. Seems Qt 5 now supports Android officially so I hope it's got a lot better. I have to check that out.

    That Elop guy should be taken out the back an shot.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2013-08-24 12:11
    Heater. wrote: »
    But Google is still full speed ahead with Chrome OS,...Mozilla is making a play with their FireFox OS. Ubuntu is trying to jump in with "Ubutu Edge"

    The parent of each of these has been demonstrated to be useful and reliable a usable portion of the time. Any of these three seems to be a much lower risk than MS (same old problems), Apple (same old proprietary problems), or the other options, (a bunch of new unknowns).

    Of these three that I consider "contenders" I have not found evidence that puts one higher or lower than the others.

    "On top of linux" appears to be a good way to go, so far I have android devices, but none of the others.
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2013-08-24 15:10
    I dropped my phone yesterday. It landed face first on the sidewalk and cracked the screen. Obviously Android OS should have made the phone flip on it's back to minimize damage. Dang you Android OS!!!
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2013-08-24 16:30
    jazzed wrote: »
    I dropped my phone yesterday. It landed face first on the sidewalk and cracked the screen. Obviously Android OS should have made the phone flip on it's back to minimize damage. Dang you Android OS!!!

    That would be a total belly flop. I had not considered this. I must re-evaluate post 74.
  • jazzedjazzed Posts: 11,803
    edited 2013-08-24 17:29
    That would be a total belly flop. I had not considered this. I must re-evaluate post 74.
    LOL. Belly flop brings back a swimming pool sized flood of memories. Thanks.
  • RobotWorkshopRobotWorkshop Posts: 2,307
    edited 2013-08-24 19:29
    While Android does seem to be working well on all the devices that I've used it on I have recently run into problems with what I think are going to be significant issues with the app stores for Android. Last Christmas my youngest son got an Android tablet. When we set it up we put on MineCraft, Angry Birds, and some other popular apps. I recently had to re-install some of the apps. When doing so I found that the Minecraft was updated and had some great new features. Worked perfect. However, when trying to install Angry Birds I couldn't find it listed. Upon digging deeper I eventually found the application but it said it wasn't compatible with our device?? That was odd since it was compatible and I already had it working before. Apparently updates had been done to the application that exceeded the requirements of the tablet. Ok, so I asked to download the version that I had purchased and had previously installed (and had been working) since I know that worked. After contacting the software vendor they only keep the latest version available. You should always be able to download the app image as it stood the day you purchased if newer versions now exceed the specs on your Android device. As it stands now you can buy an app but you may not be able to re-install it if you need to later on. Less than a year we've already lost the option to use a couple paid apps on the device. Providing updates is all well and good but when devices are being cut off then they need to keep the older versions out there too.

    Robert
  • MicksterMickster Posts: 2,694
    edited 2013-08-25 01:16
    As it stands now you can buy an app but you may not be able to re-install it if you need to later on. Less than a year we've already lost the option to use a couple paid apps on the device. Providing updates is all well and good but when devices are being cut off then they need to keep the older versions out there too.
    Robert

    I see where you are coming from but did you only check Google Play or did you go to the manufacturer's site to see if they offer previous versions?

    I use "ES File Explore" (very useful) to make backups of my apps. "My Apks" can do the same.

    Cheers.

    Mickster
  • TorTor Posts: 2,010
    edited 2013-08-25 01:24
    Updates are indeed a problem. I make backups of what I have when I'm happy with that version of an application. That way I can go back if an upgrade messes up a previously good version, for any reason. Particularly when it comes to Google apps.. for some reason they keep messing their own apps up all the time. Youtube wasn't working as it should for two months (but I had a backup..), Talk is replaced with Hangouts (another way to try to force everyone on google+, but I didn't update - still have Talk), Maps lost the shortcut to Navigation, and so on. At least the smaller vendors are quicker to fix introduced problems. But keeping your own backup regime is essential. At least on my desktop Debian keeps about three versions and there's always archive.debian.org (IIRC about the name) where every previous version is kept.

    -Tor
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-08-25 02:39
    RobotWorkshop,

    What you are describing is not really an issue with Android. It is perhaps an issue with the app vendors.

    It's an old story. What if I find my old 286 PC has corrupted or lost that Windows 3.1 it has been running for ages? Or my old slow 486 and it's Windows 95? Or soon the old box churning away here now with XP on it?

    Good luck asking MS for a copy of those. Even if you want to pay for them again. Not to mention replacing the apps that run on them.

    All that is different is the pace of change that has been going on in mobile world. There have been new incompatible versions of Windows Phone os that would give you the same headache.

    And the fact that computer users, and a smart phone is a computer, have forgotten about things like backups...
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-08-25 04:15
    In computers, 'for profit' OSes have always had the ability to walk away from problems by creating an entirely new OS and to declare end of life to support. 'For profit' apps vendors seem to be in a similar position. I tend to think of this as a "sail away policy" by global corporations. There was a time when the US might have applied anti-trust laws to such actions... but no more.

    On the other hand, Linux has a pretty good track record of providing support for old hardware once it is part of the main stream. There are apps that are always on the fringe or trying to jump back and forth from "for profit" to the public domain. When that old platform seems near useless, an installation of Linux might just revive it to good functionality.

    These things are just the way greed works with innovation.

    Personally, I am more annoyed by the fact that greed has pretty much made it impossible for me to easily buy another clam-shell phone without GPS, cameras, Android, and such. I consider the telephone just an expense and have found that devices without covered screens tend to suffer more and sooner damage when in my care. I end up buying more telephones. But we seem to have been on a forced march toward smart phones, large screen TV, and near manditory Facebook enrollment. ( I found in the last US presidential election any and all posting to the web required I register with Facebook to contribute to the political dialogue regardless of claims that my Gmail and Yahoo accounts were adequate, so I gave up trying to comment. )

    In sum, it appears that the market place is not deciding the demand. It is now about the corporate agenda behind the product. This is not benign, might even be malignant in the wrong hands. In the case of Facebook, CNNs announcement that Huffington Post will require Facebook or Facebook-like verification of identity to allow comments is an indication that Facebook alll along was a ploy to get world-wide users to provide a verified identity, inclusive of photo for bio-metric tracking.

    What the USA either doesn't understand or is pretending to overlook is that all these invasive security measures sanctioned for the NSA are also proofs of feasibility for nations without any checks and balances in place to prevent their abuse.

    There is a lot in play, and good reason not to trust every consumer product that comes along these days will be benevolent and a good vaiue. The days of the truely personal computer are in decline... much of the hardware in place is for tracking individuals and their behavior. We seem to have accepted this... for now.

    This all may seem rather silly and paranoid, but I have lived overseas for 19 years and have little recource to US law if and when abuses might occur. Taiwan in many ways a 'non-country' that doesn't participate in many treaties and conventions accepted throughout the world, and it could go back to China suddenly and my rights would be revised accordingly.
  • doggiedocdoggiedoc Posts: 2,243
    edited 2013-08-25 07:30
    jazzed - My iPhone does that and with style.

    :D
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2013-08-27 16:31
    Heater. wrote: »
    All I ever wanted was a phone that would run Debian with a phone app thrown in. How hard could that be?

    Oh man that would be SO cool .....

    can I have Gnome 2.5 please !
  • MicksterMickster Posts: 2,694
    edited 2013-08-29 13:18
    Nerd alert!!!!!!
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2013-08-29 14:59
    nerdy and Proud of it !
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