The main theme you have there is about making things, today it's all about consumption....
That's what worries me the most, it's harder to get kids interested these days in making things especially when you are competing with phones, tablets and PC's.
My son is only just starting to wonder how things work instead of just accepting that they do, just as I did all those years ago.......
Anyway sorry for OT, Android Rulez!
I find this all the time with teaching kids in Taiwan. They lived in a very different world than the one I had as a child.. very little is hands on.
Mitt Romney's Bain Capital bought Toys R' Us and was attempting to take it public about 3 months ago, but decided to cancel. We have one locally and while being a huge toy store it is rather unappealing to have shelves and shelves of the same things.... mostly yet another set of plastic products that are supposed to have a huge wow factor.
I refuse to play computer games with my young students. If they want to play a game, it has to be a board game or a card game -- real social interaction and learning to read your competition for habits and mistakes.
Hopefully this will teach them how to win in the real world rather than how to get to the next level in Angry Birds or Mario Brothers. Children learn to become winners through play... it is important.
.....Quite shocked really how much tech we have in our home.....
Very true! I didn't realize how much I had in my house until I was doing a firmware upgrade on my routed and when logged into it, noticed it said I had 9 devices connected via WiFi. It threw me at first, but after running through the list, I relaized they were in fact all mine.
It seems to me that Apple is one of the richest companies around today because Steve Jobs started Pixar, got an "in" in the entertainment industry, sold Pixar to Disney, and was able to sell the idea of "giving it away" to music publishers and labels with iTunes.
Apple uses BSD which is the open source basis of MAC OSX, but there is more to it than BSD. If someone shows me a pointer to a full OSX source repository or package, I'd love to build it and install it in a VM so I don't have to dink with this Mac Mini. Until I see that link, I will never believe that MAC OSX is open source.
All of Apple's software is based on free open source software.
No, It is not.
If I understand correctly somewhere under the Mac stack is bits of BSD and the Mach kernel.
BSD is licensed such that Apple, for example, can take it and use it for free but they have no obligation to release any modified source of their system to their customers.
No idea about the Mach or other components but basically there is no place we can download MacOS source and build it for ourselves, as Jazzed point's out.
There is a reason they one of the richest companies around. They can build on the work of others, taking free stuff and closing it.
I think the fundamental nuance of "free software" as defined by the GPL is that it is not the receiver, distributor or the user that is free to do what he likes with the code. But rather it is the code itself that is free from being locked up.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_(operating_system) - The claims to Open Source appear difficult to follow. I haven't actually been able to find any upstream Darwin source repositories - only PureDarwin.
Another android flaw - audio can't be processed in realtime, with acceptable delays. This problem does not exists in iOs, and for desktop, Apple solved it in 1995 (Quicktime), Microsoft solved in 1997 (DirectX).
Somewhat silly thread here, but I see a bunch of people listing OSes in their house...
Here's my List:
3 Windows 7 64bit (laptop and two workstations)
1 Windows Home Server (2003 based, old)
3 Android (phone, tablet, ouya)
1 Android x86 (tablet, this can also boot win7 32bit, but it's unusable on this thing)
6 Linux (cnc machine, 2 routers, Raspberry Pi, pcduino, beaglebone black)
Technically the pcduino and beaglebone black are also able to run Android...
Also, Mac OSX is certainly not open source, it's laughable that anyone would think that...
Windoze *3 (XP laptop, Vista laptop, W7 laptop)
Android ICS (Motorola Xoom) - provides data hotspot for laptops
iOS *2 iPhone 4S & 5 - phone & hotspot
Unused Windoze XP Via 800MHz mini-atx system
Unused Raspberry Pi, MX802 II (lack of time)
When the xoom is out of contract shortly, it will be replaced with the latest iPad - to provide 4G hotspot to laptops
I am sick of the Smile android on my xoom. Apple wooulld be slaughtered if they sold this android garbage. Itneeds afew more releases to approach the stability of iOS.
And for windoze, xp slows and stops at times when hdd space reduces to a few GB. But in W7, it needs 10GB+. When they slow you randomly miss characters typed, and it just dies for seconds to minutes randomly. Extremely frustrating.
Now you may say that iOS lock you in. I no longer care - its now a tool for me - reliability is what I demand and Apple solves this. As soon as I can get all the apps onto an iOS tablet the better. I am happy to plug in a larger hdmi screen when I want, and a wifi kbd & mouse.
Formany pc users, this is the way of the future, and one big reason for the sudden decline in pc sales.Of course, the other biggie is the pc no longer needs to be upgraded/replaced for more power, and lastly some are replaced with laptops.
I'm refering to realtime audio generation and processing, without noticeable lags.
That's still quite vague, please be specific. Are you perhaps referring to something like running Audacity? Exactly which application did you try, and on what hardware?
For "try it by yourself" - just download some virtual piano software for android, try to play some fast tune on it, then try same on iOs, report us difference
So its NOT based on free open source software? Sorry, I misunderstood.
No idea about the Mach or other components but basically there is no place we can download MacOS source and build it for ourselves, as Jazzed point's out.
I didn't say anything about this. Basically I don't give a hoot what Apple does, since its free and open source anyway, and I don't use any Apple stuff.
There is a reason they one of the richest companies around. They can build on the work of others, taking free stuff and closing it.
So it IS based on free open source software? Sorry, I misunderstood.
I'm refering to realtime audio generation and processing, without noticeable lags.
This isn't an issue with Android. Its an issue with the processor in your device being upnder powered for the application. My Nexus 10 does audio fine, with no lag. Records and plays video with sound, just fine.
Now, if you want to do realtime control for an embedded application, you might use a prop to do the real time part, and an Android device to do the user interface part. This makes sense, as it uses the equipment suited for its intended purpose.
It seems to me that you base your 'total flop' description (in another post) on some loose collection of forum statements. Ok I have read that thread. The basic Linux OS below Android doesn't have any realtime lag problems, just to be clear. However I would suggest that you base your judgement on Android on real, critical matters that apply to your needs (and then think about if those needs are even compatible with a mobile device - see below).
For "try it by yourself" - just download some virtual piano software for android, try to play some fast tune on it, then try same on iOs, report us difference
I just did. I installed 'Pianist HD' and hammered at it as fast as I could. I'm a poor excuse for a piano player but I could not hear any more lag than what I hear from my home keyboard (i.e. not noticeable). But I would hope you have some more interesting applications in mind - I wouldn't play piano on an Android tablet or phone for the same reason I wouldn't play guitar on one. I don't have an iOS device but I wouldn't use one for that either. I _would_ use one for displaying music (on a music stand), and I _would_ use an Android device for the same. And they would perform equally well for that purpose.
As this is a totally pointless and rambling thread I will continue in that vein:)
@ braino,
I think we have gotten stuck in a swamp of sematics. In this case the meaning of phrases like "free" and "open" when applied to software.
This little sub-thread started with a statement about Apple's business model being one of locking you into their products. To which you reply "Not so fast...bla bla...free open source software." seemed to indicate they were not locking you in.
Bottom line is I cannot obtain the sources required to build a working Apple operating system. That says "non-free" and "non-open" to me. To run my collection of applications (if I had one) for such an OS I need to get the OS from Apple and it will only run on Apple hardware. That's says "lock in" to me.
Further, if I understand correctly, you can't even develop iPhone apps without using an Apple OS on an Apple computer.
As for the semantics thing. Terms like "free software" and "open source" have been rigorously defined by various influential groups over the few decades and those meanings are generally accepted in the context of a discussion like this. http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FreeSoftwareVsOpenSource
On the plus side, Apple has created or at least made major contributions to some major open source projects like the webkit browser engine as used in Chromium and the llvm compiler.
After all this I have to say my one and only Android device, a Samsung Galaxy S phone running Android 2.1 or so from back in the day, seriously flopped yesterday.
There was a red icon in the status bar which when pulled down told me something about my "database running low on storage" OK. what frikken database?
Sniffing around the phone I find I have gigabytes of internal storage free. I have gigabytes of external SD card space free. I have zero apps installed.
Very soon I could not use the web browser, it crashed out. People could not call me, the phone app crashed out. Then I could not call, the phone app crashed. Or send SMS.
WTF?
A google around told me that many people have had this issue over the years but none of the suggested solutions helped.
WTF?
This morning following a hunch I see that my web browser, the bog standard one, has used 120MB of storage somewhere. No mention of where but it seems paltry compared to the gigs of free space I have internally and externally. OK lets delete all that.
BINGO! Everything works again.
Now, this is not just a flop, but a seriously inconveniencing, event. Potentially business losing. Potentially life threatening. Bear in mind that there are no public payphones in Scandinavia anymore in case of emergencies.
This may not be an Android failure exactly but how on earth did it happen that the stupid web browser, or any other app, could cause the phones primary function. like being a phone, to fail?
I'm off to the store to by a 10 dollar basic phone tomorrow, with a long battery life, Just for emergencies.
After all this I have to say my one and only Android device, a Samsung Galaxy S phone running Android 2.1 or so from back in the day, seriously flopped yesterday. ...
I find a majority of this thread ironic. If you think about it, what makes android so successful of a platform is very tight integration with OpenGL. After all, android really revolutionized (roughly, don't quote me on this) mobile gaming. When you look at predecessors that tried to bring the phone and game together, (Nokia n-gage) you didn't have the integration you get with GLES, not to mention the things it brought about (GLSL). But also think about it, when google brought Linux to the mobile platform, you see the good folks at Unbuntu popping up with Unbuntu for tablet. But android also brought a lot of the user interface sides of traditional Linux. You can flash custom kernels, and use custom or themed GUIs, but I believe it really just shows the feasibility of bringing a desktop-like experience to a mobile platform. For example look at the Motorola Atrix, it never caught on, but it had a kind of laptop dock. Also take into consideration Jelly Bean. How many user interfaces do you know that update with triple buffering? That's something rare, even in quite a number of desktop applications.
Laptop,toughbook> XP base with VM's of 4 Linux systems I can call up
Mac mini MAIN > OSX 10.5 base > no VM's.
Mac mini SERVER > OSX 10.5 base with a single Linux VM for secure stuff
Mac mini VEE > OSX 10.5 base > VM's of XP Debian fedora RHEL knoppix CentOS and FreeBSD
Silver surfer is just all native boot of DEBIAN 6 and Deb 5 ( its my testing box to play with stuff )
Phone is a Samsung S3
router is a Netgear prosafe .
Wireless AP is a netgear prosafe
My SAMBA SMB NAS is a linux ran system .
My backpack PC is a Linux system .
Here is the deal with android ................... Buy a POS ....... Runs like a POS . Pay for a GOOD phone Like a S4 Ect you WILL get a better user experince per year ....
Buy a vista laptop with 2 GB ram ............. living nightmare ....... buy vista laptop with 4 GB ram OK not to bad
I dont hate IOS .... I HATE the hardware . I refuse to buy any high dollar device where I cant put a new bat in it a year from now with simple tools ..... apple's Iphone is just a toss away toy .......... I cant afford a to knowingly buy a toy that is junk after a few years .
for the same reason I will NOT advcate to any one the HTC X ........
Do you have Satis brand smart toilet? now anyone with bluetooth smartphone can flush water for you, change your mood music, raise your seat - even when you're sitting on it!
That not's true install, it is emulation. I wanna x86 native hardware
CuriosOne, please put some more effort into it. That has _nothing_ to do with Android. And it's not even something new. Contrary to what the article says (and this should be obvious to anyone who has ever paired devices) the hardcoded pin of 0000 isn't in the Android application, it is in the Bluetooth toilet. This is completely normal by the way. I have several Bluetooth GPS gadgets, for example, and they're all hardcoded to 0000. No keyboard, see? So, why is this not a problem? Because the device isn't normally in 'pairing mode' where you can (if you're close) step in and pair your device. When it's paired it's paired, and your neighbour can try to flush as much as he wishes.
Do you have Satis brand smart toilet? now anyone with bluetooth smartphone can flush water for you, change your mood music, raise your seat - even when you're sitting on it!
That not's true install, it is emulation. I wanna x86 native hardware
Any one rich enough to buy a can like that lives WAY more then 30 Feet from there neighbors .
Any one rich enough to buy a can like that lives WAY more then 30 Feet from there neighbors .
Perhaps not in Japan.
Oddly enough in 1596 a flush toilet was invented and built for Queen Elizabeth I.
Turns out she did not like it as it was so noisy that every time she flushed everyone in the palace knew what she was up to.
You could say it was an invasion of her privacy.
Comments
I find this all the time with teaching kids in Taiwan. They lived in a very different world than the one I had as a child.. very little is hands on.
Mitt Romney's Bain Capital bought Toys R' Us and was attempting to take it public about 3 months ago, but decided to cancel. We have one locally and while being a huge toy store it is rather unappealing to have shelves and shelves of the same things.... mostly yet another set of plastic products that are supposed to have a huge wow factor.
I refuse to play computer games with my young students. If they want to play a game, it has to be a board game or a card game -- real social interaction and learning to read your competition for habits and mistakes.
Hopefully this will teach them how to win in the real world rather than how to get to the next level in Angry Birds or Mario Brothers. Children learn to become winners through play... it is important.
Very true! I didn't realize how much I had in my house until I was doing a firmware upgrade on my routed and when logged into it, noticed it said I had 9 devices connected via WiFi. It threw me at first, but after running through the list, I relaized they were in fact all mine.
Apple uses BSD which is the open source basis of MAC OSX, but there is more to it than BSD. If someone shows me a pointer to a full OSX source repository or package, I'd love to build it and install it in a VM so I don't have to dink with this Mac Mini. Until I see that link, I will never believe that MAC OSX is open source.
No, It is not.
If I understand correctly somewhere under the Mac stack is bits of BSD and the Mach kernel.
BSD is licensed such that Apple, for example, can take it and use it for free but they have no obligation to release any modified source of their system to their customers.
No idea about the Mach or other components but basically there is no place we can download MacOS source and build it for ourselves, as Jazzed point's out.
There is a reason they one of the richest companies around. They can build on the work of others, taking free stuff and closing it.
I think the fundamental nuance of "free software" as defined by the GPL is that it is not the receiver, distributor or the user that is free to do what he likes with the code. But rather it is the code itself that is free from being locked up.
Here's my List:
3 Windows 7 64bit (laptop and two workstations)
1 Windows Home Server (2003 based, old)
3 Android (phone, tablet, ouya)
1 Android x86 (tablet, this can also boot win7 32bit, but it's unusable on this thing)
6 Linux (cnc machine, 2 routers, Raspberry Pi, pcduino, beaglebone black)
Technically the pcduino and beaglebone black are also able to run Android...
Also, Mac OSX is certainly not open source, it's laughable that anyone would think that...
-Tor
Android ICS (Motorola Xoom) - provides data hotspot for laptops
iOS *2 iPhone 4S & 5 - phone & hotspot
Unused Windoze XP Via 800MHz mini-atx system
Unused Raspberry Pi, MX802 II (lack of time)
When the xoom is out of contract shortly, it will be replaced with the latest iPad - to provide 4G hotspot to laptops
I am sick of the Smile android on my xoom. Apple wooulld be slaughtered if they sold this android garbage. Itneeds afew more releases to approach the stability of iOS.
And for windoze, xp slows and stops at times when hdd space reduces to a few GB. But in W7, it needs 10GB+. When they slow you randomly miss characters typed, and it just dies for seconds to minutes randomly. Extremely frustrating.
Now you may say that iOS lock you in. I no longer care - its now a tool for me - reliability is what I demand and Apple solves this. As soon as I can get all the apps onto an iOS tablet the better. I am happy to plug in a larger hdmi screen when I want, and a wifi kbd & mouse.
Formany pc users, this is the way of the future, and one big reason for the sudden decline in pc sales.Of course, the other biggie is the pc no longer needs to be upgraded/replaced for more power, and lastly some are replaced with laptops.
-Tor
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1623352
For "try it by yourself" - just download some virtual piano software for android, try to play some fast tune on it, then try same on iOs, report us difference
So its NOT based on free open source software? Sorry, I misunderstood.
I didn't say anything about this. Basically I don't give a hoot what Apple does, since its free and open source anyway, and I don't use any Apple stuff.
So it IS based on free open source software? Sorry, I misunderstood.
This isn't an issue with Android. Its an issue with the processor in your device being upnder powered for the application. My Nexus 10 does audio fine, with no lag. Records and plays video with sound, just fine.
Now, if you want to do realtime control for an embedded application, you might use a prop to do the real time part, and an Android device to do the user interface part. This makes sense, as it uses the equipment suited for its intended purpose.
I just did. I installed 'Pianist HD' and hammered at it as fast as I could. I'm a poor excuse for a piano player but I could not hear any more lag than what I hear from my home keyboard (i.e. not noticeable). But I would hope you have some more interesting applications in mind - I wouldn't play piano on an Android tablet or phone for the same reason I wouldn't play guitar on one. I don't have an iOS device but I wouldn't use one for that either. I _would_ use one for displaying music (on a music stand), and I _would_ use an Android device for the same. And they would perform equally well for that purpose.
-Tor
@ braino,
I think we have gotten stuck in a swamp of sematics. In this case the meaning of phrases like "free" and "open" when applied to software.
This little sub-thread started with a statement about Apple's business model being one of locking you into their products. To which you reply "Not so fast...bla bla...free open source software." seemed to indicate they were not locking you in.
Bottom line is I cannot obtain the sources required to build a working Apple operating system. That says "non-free" and "non-open" to me. To run my collection of applications (if I had one) for such an OS I need to get the OS from Apple and it will only run on Apple hardware. That's says "lock in" to me.
Further, if I understand correctly, you can't even develop iPhone apps without using an Apple OS on an Apple computer.
As for the semantics thing. Terms like "free software" and "open source" have been rigorously defined by various influential groups over the few decades and those meanings are generally accepted in the context of a discussion like this.
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?FreeSoftwareVsOpenSource
On the plus side, Apple has created or at least made major contributions to some major open source projects like the webkit browser engine as used in Chromium and the llvm compiler.
Windows7 x86-64 primary workstation with
- VirtualBox Debian-Linux32 Test
- VirtualBox Debian-Linux64 Test
- VirtualBox Fedora32 Test
- VirtualBox FreeBSD
- VirtualBox Fedora64-KDE Test
- VirtualBox Fedora16-64 Test
- VirtualBox Debian6-64
- VirtualBox Fedora17-64
- VirtualBox Ubuntu-12-32
- VirtualBox Mint13-32
- VirtualBox Suse12-64
- VirtualBox ChromeOS (ugh)
- VirtualBox WindowsXP test
- VirtualBox Debian32 Primary Linux development system
- VirtualBox Windows8 test
Other PC Hardware- Carolyn Windows PC
- Chris Windows PC
- Mac Mini OSX Lion Primary Mac development system
- Suse Linux x86-64 XPC unused
- Fedora Linux x86 32 HP rarely used
Various Microcontroller kits- Propeller boards active (too many to mention)
- LPC2048 Dev kit - unused
- AVR Dragon - unused
- AVR32 Dev kit - unused
- PIC32 Dev kit - unused
- Basic Stamps - unused
- Javelin Stamp - unused
- Various Arduino - unused
- Rasberry PI - unused (ugh)
PhonesThere was a red icon in the status bar which when pulled down told me something about my "database running low on storage" OK. what frikken database?
Sniffing around the phone I find I have gigabytes of internal storage free. I have gigabytes of external SD card space free. I have zero apps installed.
Very soon I could not use the web browser, it crashed out. People could not call me, the phone app crashed out. Then I could not call, the phone app crashed. Or send SMS.
WTF?
A google around told me that many people have had this issue over the years but none of the suggested solutions helped.
WTF?
This morning following a hunch I see that my web browser, the bog standard one, has used 120MB of storage somewhere. No mention of where but it seems paltry compared to the gigs of free space I have internally and externally. OK lets delete all that.
BINGO! Everything works again.
Now, this is not just a flop, but a seriously inconveniencing, event. Potentially business losing. Potentially life threatening. Bear in mind that there are no public payphones in Scandinavia anymore in case of emergencies.
This may not be an Android failure exactly but how on earth did it happen that the stupid web browser, or any other app, could cause the phones primary function. like being a phone, to fail?
I'm off to the store to by a 10 dollar basic phone tomorrow, with a long battery life, Just for emergencies.
Wow. Such irony. Should raise Apple's stock LOL.
Laptop,toughbook> XP base with VM's of 4 Linux systems I can call up
Mac mini MAIN > OSX 10.5 base > no VM's.
Mac mini SERVER > OSX 10.5 base with a single Linux VM for secure stuff
Mac mini VEE > OSX 10.5 base > VM's of XP Debian fedora RHEL knoppix CentOS and FreeBSD
Silver surfer is just all native boot of DEBIAN 6 and Deb 5 ( its my testing box to play with stuff )
Phone is a Samsung S3
router is a Netgear prosafe .
Wireless AP is a netgear prosafe
My SAMBA SMB NAS is a linux ran system .
My backpack PC is a Linux system .
Here is the deal with android ................... Buy a POS ....... Runs like a POS . Pay for a GOOD phone Like a S4 Ect you WILL get a better user experince per year ....
Buy a vista laptop with 2 GB ram ............. living nightmare ....... buy vista laptop with 4 GB ram OK not to bad
I dont hate IOS .... I HATE the hardware . I refuse to buy any high dollar device where I cant put a new bat in it a year from now with simple tools ..... apple's Iphone is just a toss away toy .......... I cant afford a to knowingly buy a toy that is junk after a few years .
for the same reason I will NOT advcate to any one the HTC X ........
$ grep jenny contacts | home | phone %2> answering_machine.msg > /dev/speaker
Today is your lucky day: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laCS1czgWgE
https://www.trustwave.com/spiderlabs/advisories/TWSL2013-020.txt
Do you have Satis brand smart toilet? now anyone with bluetooth smartphone can flush water for you, change your mood music, raise your seat - even when you're sitting on it!
That not's true install, it is emulation. I wanna x86 native hardware
-Tor
Any one rich enough to buy a can like that lives WAY more then 30 Feet from there neighbors .
case in point ........ Moot point .
Oddly enough in 1596 a flush toilet was invented and built for Queen Elizabeth I.
Turns out she did not like it as it was so noisy that every time she flushed everyone in the palace knew what she was up to.
You could say it was an invasion of her privacy.