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Electric Car Weekend! — Parallax Forums

Electric Car Weekend!

ercoerco Posts: 20,256
edited 2014-01-20 18:55 in General Discussion
I've been shopping around for a new 2013 Nissan Leaf all-electric, and suddenly all the dealers who have been playing hardball are calling me with their lower prices. This may likely be the weekend I buy. Kind of fun. All I want is the base S model, but most of the dealers have and want to move their middle-tier (+$3000) SV units with quick charger, navigation & rear camera package. It feels mighty nice to be in the driver's seat. I stopped at one dealer two weeks ago and went through the "let me see what my manager can do" song & dance for a wasted hour. Never again. Now I just tell 'em via email that $32K out the door is my max price. How they get there is their problem. There's $10K in additional discounts; a Federal $7500 income tax credit next year and a Calif. $2500 rebate. So it's more like $22K with "cheap gas" at home and lots of free recharging at work and around town.

A few recent developments that are on my side.. The 2014s are only a month or two away. Just yesterday, Ford announced a 10% price drop on their Focus EV: http://news.yahoo.com/ford-cuts-price-2014-electric-focus-10-percent-192023141.html

Our twins already hate stopping at the gas station, so here's a chance to raise them with a greener form of energy. I can't wait to become a hypermiler...
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Comments

  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-07-12 16:38
    I guess Forbes heard I was in the market: http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-price-of-electric-vehicles-is-falling--is-it-time-to-buy--212947889.html
  • Tim-MTim-M Posts: 522
    edited 2013-07-12 19:10
    My wife and I have our eye on the start-up Elio Motors. The three wheel vehicle is not electric but is projected to get 49mpg city and 84mpg on the highway, and will have a price tag of $6800 new. These guys have an aggressive production schedule that they say is possible because their design is not dependent on any new technology development. Insurance is also expected to be low because at three wheels, it qualifies as a motorcycle. First deliveries are expected in July of next year.

    Edit: Almost forgot the most important part... MADE IN THE USA!!

    https://www.eliomotors.com/my-strengths/

    Erco, it will be great to follow your progress with the Nissan Leaf!

    Tim
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2013-07-13 07:35
    The Elio sounds like a great little commuter/grocery getter. Sure can't beat the price either.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2013-07-13 08:27
    Tim-M wrote: »
    ... These guys have an aggressive production schedule that they say ..

    I was interested until "aggressive production schedule", this invariably means half-@$$ed. Quality statistics predict the "rev 3" of this will be the first one you actually would want to buy. See Boeing 787 for the impacts of "aggressive schedule".
  • PublisonPublison Posts: 12,366
    edited 2013-07-13 08:35
    prof_braino wrote: »
    I was interested until "aggressive production schedule", this invariably means half-@$$ed. Quality statistics predict the "rev 3" of this will be the first one you actually would want to buy. See Boeing 787 for the impacts of "aggressive schedule".

    Yes, but it's a little less complicated than a Dreamliner....and no Li-Po batteries. :)
  • Tim-MTim-M Posts: 522
    edited 2013-07-13 09:23
    Maybe a bad choice of words on my part... "aggressive production schedule" is my perception and those are my words, not those of Elio Motors.

    Production will take place in Shreveport, LA where a former GM facility has been purchased that was building Hummers and Pickup Trucks up until last August. From what I read, much of the assembly robotics remained in the buildings and were part of the sale.

    Tim
  • WhitWhit Posts: 4,191
    edited 2013-07-13 09:53
    Tim-M wrote: »
    Production will take place in Shreveport, LA where a former GM facility has been purchased that was building Hummers and Pickup Trucks up until last August. From what I read, much of the assembly robotics remained in the buildings and were part of the sale/

    Shreveport is just an hour and a half from here...

    Go erco Go!
  • Tim-MTim-M Posts: 522
    edited 2013-07-13 14:04
    My apologies to Erco for taking your thread off topic, in hind sight I should have started another thread.

    Tim
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-07-13 16:43
    No sweat, erco likes Elio! :)
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2013-07-14 03:09
    Do they do a leasing package on the batteries to drop the price? Renault do this with their electric cars as the price is far too expensive otherwise
  • Tim-MTim-M Posts: 522
    edited 2013-07-14 19:06
    Hey Erco, we're almost out of weekend... have a new ride?
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-07-14 19:29
    Nuttin' honey...

    I was all ready to buy. I'm bumming. My top two sellers were in a bidding war and suddenly everyone went dark. Emails & calls stopped. I'll have to follow up this week.

    Another oil-company conspiracy? Call Geraldo! "Whatever Happened to the Electric Car Salesmen?"

    Another dealer was trying to talk me into leasing, which I've never done. His argument made a bit of sense at first:

    "In 3 years, battery technology will have improved so much that this 80-100 mile range car won't have much resale value against cars that can go 200+ miles."

    Maybe true, but that's still ~$11K total over the cost of a lease, with nothing to show for it after 3 years. Short of having a new car to keep up with the Joneses, that doesn't make eco sense to me. Unless someone has a better argument.

    Convince me, vile leasers!
  • Tim-MTim-M Posts: 522
    edited 2013-07-14 19:42
    Bummer indeed! 'Twill be interesting to learn the cause of the sales blackout... very unlike those folks to shut down, especially when they have a live one on the other end.

    We anxiously await the next chapter in your EV tale.
  • Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi)Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) Posts: 23,514
    edited 2013-07-14 20:24
    Erco,

    I know you're a fan of the classics. Have you considered a Baker?

    432px-Baker-electric_1911-0515.jpg

    -Phil
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-07-14 20:34
    No sir, but I would consider (and actually prefer) one of these classics... http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2008/autos/0809/gallery.gm_electric_cars/3.html
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2013-07-14 21:00
    @erco the leasing Renault do is just on the batteries which are prohibitively expensive to buy, leasing the batteries mean you own and buy the car itself and pay the maintenance of the car itself but the batteries are owned by renault throughout the lifetime of the car.

    Not a bad thing when you think about it, the most expensive, the thing you'll have to change on a regular basis(2-3 years? Perhaps less depending on usage) will be taken care of by the lease package.

    I read on the site somewhere that it worked out another 5p a mile (8 cents) to lease, cheaper than replacement batteries at your cost.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-07-14 21:27
    No, you buy the battery with the Leaf. In fact, Nissan just improved their battery warranty:

    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1081362_nissan-leaf-battery-capacity-loss-covered-by-warranty-now

    http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/charging-range/battery/
  • skylightskylight Posts: 1,915
    edited 2013-07-14 22:38
    That sounds a pretty good deal!

    Just looked it up on the UK site and it looks like they do both the total ownership and the battery lease package too,
    not sure if it's the same in the states?

    http://www.nissan.co.uk/GB/en/vehicle/electric-vehicles/leaf/prices-and-equipment/how-to-buy-my-leaf.html
  • xanaduxanadu Posts: 3,347
    edited 2013-07-15 07:54
    A few people I know with electrics ended up leasing. Another friend of mine just got the Fiat electric this weekend and ended up leasing as well. There seems to be a lot of worry about getting stuck with trying to sell an older style of electric car in a few years from now. Not sure if it's the batteries or motors or what.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-07-17 09:02
    This could be the issue. AFAIK, Nissan is the only EV company with this problem!

    http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/nissans-latest-leaf-problem-supplying-the-demand.html/?ref=YF

    But Tesla is also laughing all the way to the bank:

    http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/8-ways-tesla-is-helping-elon-musk-gloat-away-to-glory.html/?ref=YF
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-07-20 22:38
    Nothing yet. :( Three flakey Nissan salesmen have failed to deliver. One guy actually told me to go buy a Prius instead! I'm not impressed by Nissan dealers in any way. And looking at the Leaf forum, those owners are every bit as passionate/geeky as we are. Is that so wrong?

    http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=3479
  • icepuckicepuck Posts: 466
    edited 2013-07-21 11:19
    Find another dealer. I've test driven two different Leafs so far and I think the quality is just as good as a prius. The only weird thing here in the Midwest is the dealer puts you on a waiting list to be inspected be an electrician to check to see if your electrical could handle a 50 amp load from the 220v quick charger. With a 200 amp service going to my barn I could charge two Leafs at the same time.
    I think they must have lost the list I'm on because no electrician has come out to inspect my electrical service.
    -dan
  • Tim-MTim-M Posts: 522
    edited 2013-07-21 12:35
    Thanks for the update and keep trying Erco. Sounds like the dealers you've talked to aren't very hungry... life must be easy and good enough that they don't need to sell cars that badly.
  • Tim-MTim-M Posts: 522
    edited 2013-07-28 11:15
    Any progress Erco?
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-07-28 21:30
    Nothing yet. I'm losing interest. Quite frankly, there's zero hustle and zero follow through from all the Nissan dealers I have visited or contacted. The manager of the Nissan dealer (where the salesman told me to buy a Prius) called me once, offered to look into it and make me a great deal. He never called back.

    I chat with Leaf drivers at stoplights every chance. About 40% love 'em and the rest can't wait until their lease is up. It's best a local-only car, either it works for your lifestyle & commute or it doesn't. Can't be your only car. Battery lasts longer if you only charge to 80% and don't drain it down too far. That is, the less you drive it, the longer it lasts. :( Might be the ultimate case of "not ready for prime time".

    A Prius is looking better. Prius C is actually cheaper than a Leaf, even after $10K of "incentives". And I haven't heard many bad stories about Priuses or Ter-yoda dealers.

    Good article: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100910599?__source=yahoo%7Cfinance%7Cheadline%7Cheadline%7Cstory&par=yahoo&doc=100910599%7CWhy%20a%20Prius%20is%20just%20as%20pr
  • Tim-MTim-M Posts: 522
    edited 2013-07-28 21:59
    Too Bad... sounds like the answer to the question of you having Leaf or not is starting to form. Thanks for the link.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-07-28 22:44
    BMW is throwing in "use of an SUV" for a few weeks a year with their new electric I3.

    http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-28/bmw-electric-offered-with-spare-suv-to-ease-range-anxiety.html?cmpid=
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-07-28 23:56
    Cool. So whatever planetary resources you save by being inconvenienced and miserable all year you can use up in two or three weeks of blasting around in a tank!

    There is a reason Jeremy Clarkson refers to all this nonsense as "The Green Monster".
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-08-06 16:46
    Go figure: After most of a month of dead silence, two Nissan salesman twits called me last night, asking if I'm still interested in a Leaf. Today, GM announces a $5000 price cut on the Volt. Mere coincidence? I think not. At this point, I have everything to gain by waiting and seeing where all this shakes out. Forbes seems to think that only the Tesla remains a clear winner: http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2013/08/06/chevy-volt-rest-of-ev-market-now-diverge-more-from-tesla/?partner=yahootix
  • Tim-MTim-M Posts: 522
    edited 2013-08-06 17:53
    Good idea to bide your time... it'll be worth the wait.
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