I actually get a pretty clear impression from back in the day that it was supposed to feature a Propeller chip, the SX line having got axed. But then the Propeller ran off and got way more capable than anybody realized when Chip was designing it and using it to power a BS3 started to look kind of like bolting a Porsche engine onto a Classic VW Beetle.
Hmmm. I kinda like the idea of a Porsche engine in a Classic VW Beetle. PBasic that is actively interpreted on a Propeller 2 might really appeal to newbies and in a BS ... but you could just about have 16 pins of i/o per Cog. Very cool, almost a Frankenstein Uber Stamp.
Of course, I did have a Classic VW Beetle and do understand how absurd a Porsche engine is in such a context. While it did get an amazing 52 miles to the gallon when running right, it was never going to handle a turn with the grace of a Porsche. And you had to sit with your feet pointed to the right just to fit in. Also, a very noisy little car whenever you hit a rock, you thought you died.
Still, PBasic is some reincarnation on Propellers... all of em... could be a very good thing. Where did all those PBasic users go?
That adds expense to each board that I don't think is necessary, especially as one cannot use the BS1 programming port as a general serial port. At EFX-TEK we created this product for our BS1-based Prop-1 controller board:
Maybe the retro BS1 Starter Kit could have a board with 3 eeproms and a program switch for 3 different programs. It could have 2 turbo modes for different clock speeds, USB, tiny breadboard, access to all 8 pins, a chip to expand pins, piezo speaker, IR, on board 2x2 tiny RC keypad, LED, 7-segment display and extra sockets for 2 more BS1s. Tiny jumpers provide on board options and open up pins for other projects and offer an option to disable the brownout detector.
Remember that the BS1 uses a PIC16C56 with 1K of (12-bit) instruction memory and 25 bytes of RAM. The BS2 uses a PIC16F57 with 2K flash and 75 bytes of RAM.
Unless someone has shiploads of programmed parts they want to dump, it is probably a good idea to more to a better place on the price curve.
PIC16C56 now have the 'go away' EOL pricing, and are virtually brain dead.
Something like a AT89LP52 is more capable, and cheaper, @ 65c/100, and there are BASICs ready to drop into this.
If you wanted USB as well, and still want to leverage PIC, then a low cost PIC w USB included seem to start around
PIC16LF145x ~ $1.04/1k and ADCs arrive at a few cents more ~ $1.18/1k,
the first PIC18s are ~$1.58/1k,
and the first PIC32's are $1.86/1k (but note that is only 3.6V, probably kills it in this app ?)
- so perhaps a Nuvoton NUC122/NUC120 which are ~ $1.89/1k and $1.97/1k with ADC, and these are M0 and 2.5 V ~ 5.5 V, with 32K of Flash.
But outside of nostalgia I don't see much interest for a open source BS1, this isn't the same market. There are many other lower cost, more capable and open sourced options available if Parallax decides to sell it at the same price as it's current BS1 offering($29.00).
Good point, a comparable price gets you something like this from element14
COOKIE NUMICRO EVB Embest Info&Tech Co Ltd BOARD, EVAL, ARDUINO COMPATIBLE M051
42 1: $28.174 http://coocox.org/Cookie.html
This has USB+Debug in one micro and the target micro is separate.
The whole idea here is to have a new BS1 package that might inspire some to start with Stamps without Parallax having to do any other development work ... they're busy enough with the Propellers and peripheral devices (sensors, wireless, etc.) Once they open up the interpreter source and IDE, then you can translate the interpreter to something that will work on some other microcontroller like any of the ones mentioned.
Perhaps another take on this concept, then, is to start another "learn effort" -- as in we opened the kimono on the stamp 1 -- we want you you to take it and make something that can become a basic stomper (tm) <grin> just to kick around some other low price and "competing" products. Me thinks there could be a load of folks interested in how to "roll their own" -- could be a way to turn the market on its head a bit too. If for nothing else, then just for kicks and giggles. of course it depends on how malleable the opened source is to change and understanding by mere mortals.
The whole idea here is to have a new BS1 package that might inspire some to start with Stamps without Parallax having to do any other development work ... they're busy enough with the Propellers and peripheral devices (sensors, wireless, etc.) Once they open up the interpreter source and IDE, then you can translate the interpreter to something that will work on some other microcontroller like any of the ones mentioned.
Of course, but your second point, rather quickly negates the first one.
Once they open up the interpreter source and IDE, then smarter and cheaper silicon, quickly makes a PIC16C56 a bad idea.
Given work in other areas, and the finished module prices, it might be smarter to do a PropBASIC variant, that is code compatible with BS1 legacy source. (eg via a switch).
I also notice XMOS do some 'smoke an mirrors' on their core-counts, to create a lower price (as do Microchip on their PICs.)
Parallax could look at the same thing ?
https://www.xmos.com/buy
eg here the original 8 core part is US$ 6.90/100, and the new 'dumbed down' part has 4 cores for US$ 2.95 - both in TQFP48.
Another Basic worth tracking, (ie use for compatibility template) is FreeBASIC.
Comments
Hmmm. I kinda like the idea of a Porsche engine in a Classic VW Beetle. PBasic that is actively interpreted on a Propeller 2 might really appeal to newbies and in a BS ... but you could just about have 16 pins of i/o per Cog. Very cool, almost a Frankenstein Uber Stamp.
Of course, I did have a Classic VW Beetle and do understand how absurd a Porsche engine is in such a context. While it did get an amazing 52 miles to the gallon when running right, it was never going to handle a turn with the grace of a Porsche. And you had to sit with your feet pointed to the right just to fit in. Also, a very noisy little car whenever you hit a rock, you thought you died.
Still, PBasic is some reincarnation on Propellers... all of em... could be a very good thing. Where did all those PBasic users go?
That adds expense to each board that I don't think is necessary, especially as one cannot use the BS1 programming port as a general serial port. At EFX-TEK we created this product for our BS1-based Prop-1 controller board:
-- http://www.efx-tek.com/topics/prop-1_usb.html
Unless someone has shiploads of programmed parts they want to dump, it is probably a good idea to more to a better place on the price curve.
PIC16C56 now have the 'go away' EOL pricing, and are virtually brain dead.
Something like a AT89LP52 is more capable, and cheaper, @ 65c/100, and there are BASICs ready to drop into this.
If you wanted USB as well, and still want to leverage PIC, then a low cost PIC w USB included seem to start around
PIC16LF145x ~ $1.04/1k and ADCs arrive at a few cents more ~ $1.18/1k,
the first PIC18s are ~$1.58/1k,
and the first PIC32's are $1.86/1k (but note that is only 3.6V, probably kills it in this app ?)
- so perhaps a Nuvoton NUC122/NUC120 which are ~ $1.89/1k and $1.97/1k with ADC, and these are M0 and 2.5 V ~ 5.5 V, with 32K of Flash.
Good point, a comparable price gets you something like this from element14
COOKIE NUMICRO EVB Embest Info&Tech Co Ltd BOARD, EVAL, ARDUINO COMPATIBLE M051
42 1: $28.174
http://coocox.org/Cookie.html
This has USB+Debug in one micro and the target micro is separate.
Of course, but your second point, rather quickly negates the first one.
Once they open up the interpreter source and IDE, then smarter and cheaper silicon, quickly makes a PIC16C56 a bad idea.
Given work in other areas, and the finished module prices, it might be smarter to do a PropBASIC variant, that is code compatible with BS1 legacy source. (eg via a switch).
I also notice XMOS do some 'smoke an mirrors' on their core-counts, to create a lower price (as do Microchip on their PICs.)
Parallax could look at the same thing ?
https://www.xmos.com/buy
eg here the original 8 core part is US$ 6.90/100, and the new 'dumbed down' part has 4 cores for US$ 2.95 - both in TQFP48.
Another Basic worth tracking, (ie use for compatibility template) is FreeBASIC.