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Need a New $135K Electric Car? — Parallax Forums

Need a New $135K Electric Car?

ercoerco Posts: 20,256
edited 2013-06-25 12:39 in General Discussion
Nissan is struggling to sell a Leaf for $19K. Fisker is nearly bankrupt. Chevy's Volt didn't bolt out of showrooms. Tesla Electric has met "resistance" from the NT Times. Coda got curtailed. So the timing is perfect to introduce a pricey new electric car! http://news.yahoo.com/detroit-electric-unveils-135-000-battery-powered-sports-003538467--finance.html

Who's in?
«13

Comments

  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-03 21:25
    Does it have a good electric heater included for those icy Detroit winters? If not, I'd opt for an electric bicycle and warm clothes.... easier to park and I can charge the battery in my home or office.
  • kwinnkwinn Posts: 8,697
    edited 2013-04-03 23:16
    @erco

    I would expect an inexpensive 2 seater electric car that would get you from home to the office or mall and back on a single charge would sell a lot better than a high priced short range sports car. Even more likely to be successful if the insurance companies and our elected officials got behind them with lower insurance rates and license fees.

    @Loopy

    I would not want to be driving any two wheeled vehicle in weather like they get in Detroit. Aside from not wanting to freeze off the tender parts of my anatomy, I would be concerned about my safety without a solid steel shell for protection.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-04 02:54
    Okay, I can understand why one would not ride a bicycle in Detroit, regardless of the season. But it appears this Chinese start-up lacks any imagination about creating an original business plan... $135,000 USD sport car? And we still haven't resolved if it does have or doesn't have a good heater. I am extreme suspicious of all electric cars and their ability to be driven comfortably in winter conditions.

    The Tesla does have a whole layer of battery cells under the floor boards, and that might warm nicely while driving. But that is a hit or miss solution as there just might be days when your floor boards are too warm. My dad had an MGB that got extreme hot under the gas pedal on long trips due to the exhaust passing nearby.

    We the change over to all-electric cars, the comfort of the occupants is a very real concern. You don't have extra heat being dumped into the passenger compartment from the engine's combustion. So do you add MORE batteries to heat the occupants? Or do you tell them to fend for themselves. Obviously I have not bothered with asking about air conditioning, but it is a next logic comfort issue.

    After all, who wants an uncomfortable $125,000 USD car? Get a horse.

    But a $15,000 electric car might be forgiven the lack of heating and other features. And at $5,000 USD, all might be forgiven.
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2013-04-04 10:59
    Ill keep my segway . At least I can put it on the bus.. ..
    My mom is looking at a Volt to replace 2 cars/ One Neat Trick It can do it Pre heat the car While its plugged in ......
    Its a simple small Idea . but its ideas like this that will solve the issues with EVs ...

    IMO 100K is wayyy over priced .... the USA does not have the Guts to Plug in and not ever fill up...


    I am a pessimist on this ... every Bro and and dad here in Oregon has a manly truck .. Why ? so they can compare the size of there Egos and engines ...

    its Like M.A.D for trucks . and so far a HumVee is King. ... Its a crash safety arms race ........ OHh the bigger the car the more safe it is ?


    for Years a we have had NASCAR Flips that people have Walked away from ,....... the tin cans we are in how are SO old ..... Give me a Cromalloy Roll cage and a fiberglass shell any day ! .
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2013-04-04 11:35
    I wonder how much just 4 of the 3 phase AC motors and the DC to AC converter cost? I bet it would be easier (and better) to to just "maker" one with the gearhead down the block....
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-04-04 12:14
    Yep, what I need is a $1000 electric minicar that will get me the 10Km to work and back each day.

    I have often though a electric tuk-tuk would be just the thing. Perhaps like this: http://www.tuktuktransport.com/products/The-%22JOLT%22.html

    What? It's even made in the USA!!
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-04-04 13:31
    Heater. wrote: »
    Yep, what I need is a $1000 electric minicar that will get me the 10Km to work and back each day.

    Heck, you'll spend $1500 for an electric bike with a range of ~50 miles (YMMV)! http://www.nycewheels.com/gianttwistfreedom-electric-hybridbike.html

    Or $2750 http://www.nycewheels.com/kettler-hybritech-twin-city.html

    Or $2799 http://www.nycewheels.com/stromer-electric-bike.html

    !!!
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2013-04-04 13:42
    sadly Erco the laws that be in some states are VERY cranky about them ... so are the "spandex warriors" whom here In the land-O-Bikes ( portland ) are not too pleased that people can Bike to work and not Break a sweat ......
    Meh If it gets people off there Gas Binge I am all for people doing E Bikes and the Like .
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-05 04:59
    I just LUV the electric Tuk Tuk, and it is made in the USA no less!!!! It reminds me of the good old Cushman 3 wheeler that a weird guy drove around my neighborhood when I was growing up.

    That is just the cat's meow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And likely to be easier to park than a big car.
    My last Yamaha 125cc motorscooter cost almost $2000USD, so for a few more bucks you can stay out of the rain.
  • lardomlardom Posts: 1,659
    edited 2013-04-05 11:23
    I would buy one if I had enough property to accomodate a fairly large solar array and the staff to switch out the extra battery pack. (While on the subject of alternative energy sources, last year I took a video of a humongous wind turbine in Bayonne NJ that had been recently installed. It did not budge the entire time I watched it.)
  • User NameUser Name Posts: 1,451
    edited 2013-04-05 11:41
    Odd that its outstanding range of 190 miles is still utterly pathetic. VW Passat for me. I doubt I'll ever buy an electric car unless quick-swap aluminum batteries come out of hiding.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-04-05 12:06
    User Name,

    I firmly believe you are correct.

    No body will do anything until the oil runs out and economies collapse. At that point they will be happy to walk to work if they are still alive and still have work.

    Until then lets party.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-04-05 22:15
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-05 23:26
    lardom wrote: »
    I would buy one if I had enough property to accomodate a fairly large solar array and the staff to switch out the extra battery pack. (While on the subject of alternative energy sources, last year I took a video of a humongous wind turbine in Bayonne NJ that had been recently installed. It did not budge the entire time I watched it.)

    You do know that if you build a wind turbine in any given location, the wind ceases to blow. Right?
  • rod1963rod1963 Posts: 752
    edited 2013-04-05 23:30
    It doesn't surprise me that Fisker is going belly up, wealthy environmentalists drive Mercedes and BMW's not some battery powered toy.

    When oil becomes exorbitantly expensive, you can kiss the high tech field goodby along with the consumer electronic market which is nothing but a function of cheap energy and disposable income. Geeks will have to learn manual arts to survive.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-05 23:37
    Heater. wrote: »
    User Name,

    I firmly believe you are correct.

    No body will do anything until the oil runs out and economies collapse. At that point they will be happy to walk to work if they are still alive and still have work.

    Until then lets party.

    The thing is that we are not really going to hit a wall where there is no more oil. We are migrating over to using natural gas and major corporations are building fleets and distribution networks to use the alternative which is also better for the environment. Oil will remain around and horded for national security and commercial air as jet fuel is kerosene.

    Then there is a huge reserve of methane hydrate at the bottom of the world's oceans. Wind and solar will still have a lot of local appear, but fossil fuels are going to be around a long time for heavy hauling, diesel train locomotives, and heavy construction. Thermodynamics and the ability to quickly refuel are going to keep the internal combustion engine and the jet turbine around for a long time.

    For solar, Ford has created a Sterling Engine solar farm that seems to be more efficient that those silicon panels, and less costly, and less environmental impact.

    For wind, the good news is that military gnomes have figured out how to create radar arrays that can see through a wind farm. Wind farms were a huge security problem when places near the borders of a country (like off-shore wind farms) as the blades would just scramble the country's radar and create a dead zone in radar defense.

    So, progress is being made. It is just not likely to appear where you think it might. The personal electric car is certainly NOT going to be as successful as an electric bicycle or electric cart. Tesla seems to think it can achieve a mass market and is ahead of the gang. If they succeed, the industry as a whole will go forward. If they fail, all bets are off.

    Nuclear energy is the big wild card as people are beginning to realize that each and every reactor site is the final resting site for all the waste that reactor produces by the fact that nearly everyone has failed to create a program to remove the spent fuel rods to a long-term waste management facility. In the US, long-term nuclear waste management only exist for the Navy and other military uses. Japan certainly doesn't have any. Neither does Taiwan. We were promised back in the 1970s that the nuclear waste problems would be solved 'within a decade or so'. Well, it has been four decades and we are no nearer to a solution. We may actually be farther away as nobody wants nuclear waste storage nearby.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-04-05 23:45
    This is my idea of what an electric car should look like: http://microcarmuseum.com/tour/berkeley-t60.html

    It's a Berkeley from the early 1960's. That thing had a 322cc two stroke engine which could easily be replaced with an electric set up. It's small. it's light, it's efficient, it's cheap. With a modern chassis and mod cons it would be great. It is what Tesla should be making.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-06 07:08
    When I was a very young teen, my first girl friend's father was a collector of old mechanical stuff. He had a Stanley Steamer, old player pianos, a steam motorcycle, and even one of their electric cars .. a French model.

    Here we are over 100 years later and it still is the same problem set --- batteries and recharge. As it is, I fill up the motor scooter at the gas station once every week or so. If I switched to an electric motor scooter, I'd have to be on the charger a lot more frequently... maybe every night.
  • prof_brainoprof_braino Posts: 4,313
    edited 2013-04-06 12:03
    When I get home, I put my cell phone on the shelf and plug it into the charger. When I get home, I put the car in the garage. If "in the garage" would equal "on the charger" it seems that would save me one or two trips to the gas station.

    An electric vehicle "sports car light" instead of "SUV heavy" would go a lot further with the same batteries and motors.

    My buddy in Key West says folks there have electric golf carts dressed as Mercedes and HumVees for getting around the island. Seems like a fun idea. I'd certain block traffic in Chicago with one if I had the chance.
  • garyggaryg Posts: 420
    edited 2013-04-06 15:41
    I'm tending to agree with Loopy Byteloose in the fact that Battery Technology is the key to this whole debate.
    Battery technology has advanced pretty quickly in the last 10 years.
    Fuel driven vehicles are very easy.
    Charging batteries or exchanging batteries when needed is not as easy.
    You actually Need to Want to Do the Electric vehicle thing!

    I believe that the automotive industry is being so closely controlled by government regulations that the
    progress of efficient vehicles is not really being controlled by the automotove industry.
    Automotive industry is doing their best at meeting regulations, not doing their best at building efficient cars.

    I'll stop here.
    Electric vehicles will be commonplace, once the technology reaches the tipping point.
  • garyggaryg Posts: 420
    edited 2013-04-06 19:24
    erco wrote: »

    It's interesting to see that Lithium technology is right up there next to gun powder!
    We're on the way.
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-04-06 23:20
    garyg,
    It's interesting to see that Lithium technology is right up there next to gun powder!

    Hehehe, we can already bring down jet liners with it so it's a start:)
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-07 00:39
    I wouldn't worry too much about Lithium. All the solid-fuel boosters for the NASA launches use vast quantities of powdered aluminum.
  • Peter KG6LSEPeter KG6LSE Posts: 1,383
    edited 2013-04-07 01:54
    I can see the people alive here today on this earth may have a hard time accepting a limited range lifestyle .

    Its the Kids 10 -20 Years from now whom are going to the ones whom may never have the freedom to affordability Drive 300 Miles + continuous in a day ..

    Is it better to have to love and lost ... then never loved at all?
    Really I have Driven a car only a hand few times .... Me personally Might never know what I am missing ....... I can do at max with my Used batts 20 Miles in a day If I push my luck .. I really have no disire to need more. Same with a car .... Math is absolute ... The math tells us that If every person would buy a volt ( price of the car aside here for a Sec) . Then they would never " know " they did 90 % of driveing on Batts ......

    I really want to see a blinde test done with a EV so that the public can Really see that the range is Really not a issue ....


    Do you Really drive 100s of miles with No breaks .... No .....

    The fact is most Real EVs and the Volt can charge a gynormous bat pack in less time then some phones take to charge .....


    Lets take the 300 Mile range tesla ........ OK its 8 AM you are 100 charged ...
    you Drive 30 Miles to go shop . and you plug in to a tier 2 charger .... the tesla can do a full charge in 4 H.

    Lets make a assumption that is not 100% true but is close enough for now. that the charge rate is flat ...... with some math based on this we have 75 Miles charged per hour !


    you are at that food store for 30 Min 1/2 of 75 is 37.5 Miles recovered by just getting stuff at the local food stor 30 Miles away . I mean Who lives that far from food !? Some do .... but most of us dont ... my 3 places to shop here are with in 3 Miles ....

    So you have a Full tank when you get done shopping ........ 37.5>30... technically its a positive but you really have no place to put those other miles in a batt so it gonna just float at that point ...

    OK go to work for Hours at a time .. I hope we are all employed to work more then 4 H a day ...... so no matter what ... at work you will leave with a full tank ..... WHO here on this forum Drives 600 Miles in a day to and from work total . .. Yea No one ..... Ill bet people here go in the 20 to 60 mile range each way ...


    NOW I get that this requires chargers........ BTW the charger for the VOLT is like 300 bucks its a relay and a small interlock board .... the Real charger is in the car ,, 300 to make a place to fill up is not that much of a investment ..... I would bet we are better off just mass installing these things ( chargers ) VS trying to suck just a few more % out of some poor Li Ion cell ...


    Now that we have the places to fill up the whole range issue is a really a moot point as far as I am concerned ..

    Again we may never get US off the gas binge . People in Iowa have a FAR more harder time then the masses in LA and SD and here in portland .. but People need to get out of these cars that are proven by math that are far more range then most need ...

    I dont care how rich you are ... No one can afford to Hose the rest of us , Be respectful for the actions you do with the earths supplys.

    Peter
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-07 03:29
    If I were still living in Oregon, transport would have to be a beat up gasoline driven pickup, or diesel or LNG. If you ever got stuck on an old logging road where would you find a power outlet to recharge your electric?

    I suspect that if I did buy an electric, it would have to be in a region that had AAA coverage... and a lot of rural USA does not!
  • Heater.Heater. Posts: 21,230
    edited 2013-04-07 05:16
    Loopy you are right about those living in the sticks needing long range transport.

    However as time goes by that is an ever deminishing percentage of the human population. I forget the statistics but arn't we already at 80% living in/near cities.
  • LoopyBytelooseLoopyByteloose Posts: 12,537
    edited 2013-04-07 06:35
    I already live in the concrete jungle of Lemmingville. But the western USA is likely to remain sparse. And Oregon is the least populous of the West Coast states. Anybody in Oregon knows that being stuck in the woods might require you to walk out, and that could end up being 100 miles of walking in some cases. Eastern Oregon is big, empty, and high desert. I always carried a automotive repair kit, a fishing rod, and a down sleeping bag with when I travelled in Oregon. And there certainly was one time that I needed all three.

    On other fronts, I just checked Tesla for their Climate Control. The Tesla has a complete HVAC kit included, so my fears that an electric car may not be any good for more extreme environs may be unfounded. Still, it would do better in parts of Northern California where you rarely use the heater or the A/C.

    California is building a new high speed rail from L.A. to San Francisco. That is a first step towards the days when flying is too expensive due to fuel. It happens to be one of the highest air traffic links in the world, but a high speed rail is likely to demote its ranking.

    The future is going to be a reversion to public transport, maybe with occasional car rental. But Oregonians would rather live in the back woods and ride a horse than give up and move to a city. So maybe there is a cowboy revival in the works as well.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,256
    edited 2013-04-10 13:23
    I must admit, I'm sufficiently intrigued by the targeted LEAF ads I see ($18,800 after tax savings) that I'll take a test drive. I see free recharge stations popping up at malls and restaurants here in LA. And we have free charging at work too. "Free gas" seems like a nice perk.
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