SPIN is a great "learning language" and it will get you up and running in no time even if you are a total newbie. It's great for less advanced and not so processing heavy stuff.
It has got a very small footprint and it's easy to read. A perfect match for the P1 in combination with heavy duty stuff running in pasm.
Getting started with embedded programming has NEVER been easier than P1 + Spin. The Arduino + C doesn't stand a chance.
BUT.......
Which leg(s) should Parallax stand on?
Left leg: Educational and hobby
Right leg: Professional and hardcore "hobby" stuff
If the answer is right leg or both legs, then Parallax might have to rethink their main focus on Spin. It might not be obvious to people that has little or no knowledge of C, but C is a much more capable language than Spin. And C++ many times more capable than C. The reasons are too many to list here and they are not obvious until you start coding "hardcore" stuff. What I want to say is that premoting Spin for anything other than Educational and Hobby stuff is wrong. Even if it's a good match for some professional applications, it certainly is not the best match for the "heavy stuff".
I must admit that it really hurts being this honest in a "Spin forum" and I might get some haters. But remember that I never said that Spin is a poor language (rather the opposite). It certainly is a great language to learn embedded programming with.
SPIN is a great "learning language" and it will get you up and running in no time even if you are a total newbie. It's great for less advanced and not so processing heavy stuff.
It has got a very small footprint and it's easy to read. A perfect match for the P1 in combination with heavy duty stuff running in pasm.
Getting started with embedded programming has NEVER been easier than P1 + Spin. The Arduino + C doesn't stand a chance.
BUT.......
Which leg(s) should Parallax stand on?
Left leg: Educational and hobby
Right leg: Professional and hardcore "hobby" stuff
If the answer is right leg or both legs, then Parallax might have to rethink their main focus on Spin. It might not be obvious to people that has little or no knowledge of C, but C is a much more capable language than Spin. And C++ many times more capable than C. The reasons are too many to list here and they are not obvious until you start coding "hardcore" stuff. What I want to say is that premoting Spin for anything other than Educational and Hobby stuff is wrong. Even if it's a good match for some professional applications, it certainly is not the best match for the "heavy stuff".
I must admit that it really hurts being this honest in a "Spin forum" and I might get some haters. But remember that I never said that Spin is a poor language (rather the opposite). It certainly is a great language to learn embedded programming with.
In any case, the biggest gripe with Spin is simply Why? Why another language altogether?
...Spin is still the best way to get into the Prop and start doing/learning stuff ... (though I would certainly continue to support other tools/languages, and not just GCC either).
If not for Parallax I would not have even considered programming. I saw it as outright tedium - like painting large murals pixel by pixel - and then you suffer the indignity of piracy! After buying "What is a Microcontroller" I saw programming as "Sit, stay ..roll over!" It was so much fun that I had to try the Propeller.
I became a passionate devotee of parallel processing and Spin/PASM. Learning to program interrupts can wait.
Which leg(s) should Parallax stand on?
Left leg: Educational and hobby
Right leg: Professional and hardcore "hobby" stuff
Or both. That's the big question.
What I want to say is that premoting Spin for anything other than Educational and Hobby stuff is wrong. Even if it's a good match for some professional applications, it certainly is not the best match for the "heavy stuff".
Agreed. Spin is primarily a learning and prototyping tool. I don't think you could ever expect to see it in a great many professional applications. On the other hand, C/C++ tools, even good ones, won't make that a certainty for the Prop either.
But remember that I never said that Spin is a poor language (rather the opposite). It certainly is a great language to learn embedded programming with.
Indeed it is. Unfortunately, many see it as a superfluous novelty -- that "why another language?" thing again -- and thus won't even give it a good tryout.
IMHO, their loss too. If people know how to program in basically ANY language, "giving SPIN a try" takes a day. Maybe a coupla days tops. It's just not hard. The thing is, easy stuff is really easy. Having that option is worth it.
A few of us have been working like crazy on SimpleIDE for education's needs. There are good things coming for education users and hobbyists. SimpleIDE has been working fine for a long time, but there are changes coming that make it simpler to use specifically for the education environment with feature enhancements as defined by Parallax. The flavor of the original SimpleIDE will also be preserved and improved. Unfortunately early previews are not allowed yet.
From the little tidbits I was able to wrestle out of Ken about this, I can't wait to see what you guys have been working on. I'm definitely going to make room for BOTH in my materials and site design frameworks.
I have high hopes for this. Steve did a GREAT job with SIDE. Some TLC on that should yield something very usable. IMHO, totally worth it too. Lowering the bar to use C pays off as much as SPIN does, and it does so to those audiences that won't just jump in like SPIN requires.
Comments
SPIN is a great "learning language" and it will get you up and running in no time even if you are a total newbie. It's great for less advanced and not so processing heavy stuff.
It has got a very small footprint and it's easy to read. A perfect match for the P1 in combination with heavy duty stuff running in pasm.
Getting started with embedded programming has NEVER been easier than P1 + Spin. The Arduino + C doesn't stand a chance.
BUT.......
Which leg(s) should Parallax stand on?
Left leg: Educational and hobby
Right leg: Professional and hardcore "hobby" stuff
If the answer is right leg or both legs, then Parallax might have to rethink their main focus on Spin. It might not be obvious to people that has little or no knowledge of C, but C is a much more capable language than Spin. And C++ many times more capable than C. The reasons are too many to list here and they are not obvious until you start coding "hardcore" stuff. What I want to say is that premoting Spin for anything other than Educational and Hobby stuff is wrong. Even if it's a good match for some professional applications, it certainly is not the best match for the "heavy stuff".
I must admit that it really hurts being this honest in a "Spin forum" and I might get some haters. But remember that I never said that Spin is a poor language (rather the opposite). It certainly is a great language to learn embedded programming with.
/Johannes
SPIN is a great "learning language" and it will get you up and running in no time even if you are a total newbie. It's great for less advanced and not so processing heavy stuff.
It has got a very small footprint and it's easy to read. A perfect match for the P1 in combination with heavy duty stuff running in pasm.
Getting started with embedded programming has NEVER been easier than P1 + Spin. The Arduino + C doesn't stand a chance.
BUT.......
Which leg(s) should Parallax stand on?
Left leg: Educational and hobby
Right leg: Professional and hardcore "hobby" stuff
If the answer is right leg or both legs, then Parallax might have to rethink their main focus on Spin. It might not be obvious to people that has little or no knowledge of C, but C is a much more capable language than Spin. And C++ many times more capable than C. The reasons are too many to list here and they are not obvious until you start coding "hardcore" stuff. What I want to say is that premoting Spin for anything other than Educational and Hobby stuff is wrong. Even if it's a good match for some professional applications, it certainly is not the best match for the "heavy stuff".
I must admit that it really hurts being this honest in a "Spin forum" and I might get some haters. But remember that I never said that Spin is a poor language (rather the opposite). It certainly is a great language to learn embedded programming with.
/Johannes
I became a passionate devotee of parallel processing and Spin/PASM. Learning to program interrupts can wait.
Agreed. Spin is primarily a learning and prototyping tool. I don't think you could ever expect to see it in a great many professional applications. On the other hand, C/C++ tools, even good ones, won't make that a certainty for the Prop either.
Indeed it is. Unfortunately, many see it as a superfluous novelty -- that "why another language?" thing again -- and thus won't even give it a good tryout.
From the little tidbits I was able to wrestle out of Ken about this, I can't wait to see what you guys have been working on. I'm definitely going to make room for BOTH in my materials and site design frameworks.
Jeff