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Well it's plywood — Parallax Forums

Well it's plywood

Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
edited 2014-04-08 09:37 in Robotics
I built a robot arm already, but I never liked the gripper. I've been considering buying or building a new gripper. Today I saw this on ebay and put in what I thought was a low ball bid:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robotic-arm-DIY-kit-Lasercut-Plywood-Structure-6servos-AT89S51-MCU-USB-ISP-tool-/330853694622?nma=true&si=MZ6wczSDikiabMDwgCtX3vNkafQ%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I really expected to be sniped at the last minute because the battery charger, batteries, and servos alone are worth what I paid. But it also includes a servo controller and plywood arm structure.
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Comments

  • TtailspinTtailspin Posts: 1,326
    edited 2013-01-11 17:13
    Nice score!

    So it's an unasembled kit? all the better.
    (to bad it has one of those "other" micros installed though..) :)

    -Tommy
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-11 17:34
    Ttailspin wrote: »
    Nice score!

    So it's an unasembled kit? all the better.
    (to bad it has one of those "other" micros installed though..) :)

    Yep, probably someone bought it and then lost interest. I already have control software from my original arm which should work with this one. So I have options besides the "other" microcontroller. It will be interesting to see what its firmware looks like compared to mine.

    The gripper design looks good, as does the wrist, elbow, and shoulder design. The turntable portion looks like it could use some improvement. I think I can also add wrist rotation.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-11 18:15
    Bitchin'! A plywood arm for $100! Congrats to the proud papa.

    Take photos as you build and write a review for ROBOT or SERVO magazine. Payment will cover the arm plus some beer money. :)
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-11 18:27
    Speaking of plywood, I received my plywood T-Rex kit. Best $20 I've spent lately. NICE die-cut (not laser cut) parts. Almost too beautiful to assemble. Nice electronics, too! Of course I subsequently had to order the Triceratops too. erco-recommended!

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/330846659304
  • Duane DegnDuane Degn Posts: 10,588
    edited 2013-01-11 19:27
    Pretty amazing for $100.

    There's another one of these arms here.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-11 19:36
    Duane Degn wrote: »
    Pretty amazing for $100.

    There's another one of these arms here.

    I noticed that to. It's the same seller, so I'm starting to think that the seller is Sawtooth designs who makes the kit.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-12 08:08
    Do not tempt me nor happy fun ball with this swell wooden arm...

    Yes that seller may be the maker. He already sold two in his feedback section.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-12 08:29
    Erco, if it makes you feel better, I've watched the online videos and there's too much wobble in the turntable. I'm going to have to find a way to fix that with some sort of bearings. It is also missing wrist rotation, which I will leave as it is for the moment, but I may try to retrofit a wrist servo in later. Other than that the gripper structure looks like it has some holding power because the fingers are parallel.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-12 09:21
    Yes, some of that wobble is just moving too fast. It's moving at medium speed here, needs to be slower. A lazy susan bearing may help. Looks like all servos are the same (genuine S3003? hmmm...). That shoulder servo is under a big load. I didn't see any helper springs to offset...
  • rwgast_logicdesignrwgast_logicdesign Posts: 1,464
    edited 2013-01-12 09:21
    @Martin

    I was cruising the day before you bought this arm looking for robot kits, trying to find something better than a rover 5. I came across that arm when the bid was 92 dollars or so. Im surprised you picked it up at just over 100 dollars!! Great deal, that thing looks like a really solid quality arm much better than anything else in its price range.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-12 09:37
    erco wrote: »
    Yes, some of that wobble is just moving too fast. It's moving at medium speed here, needs to be slower. A lazy susan bearing may help. Looks like all servos are the same (genuine S3003? hmmm...). That shoulder servo is under a big load. I didn't see any helper springs to offset...

    The firmware probably isn't ramping the servos either. I had major shakes until I added that to my firmware. I also plan to use some of the PowerHD servos from my arm for the shoulder servos. They have metal gears with much better torque than the Futaba servos it comes with. They're also slower which helps keep vibration in check.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-12 10:21
    $100 appears to be the going price, as two sold for that much in the seller's feedback.

    I just noticed that it's a 5-axis robot. I counted six servos in the Ebay photo and assumed it was a six-axis unit, but two of those are used for the shoulder. Wrist rotate is missing. It may not seem all that important at first, but after you play with it, you will realize the limitation.

    Still a smoking deal for $100.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-12 11:01
    Yeah, it uses two servos for altitude of the shoulder joint. That's pretty common to overcome the need for additional torque. In my arm I used mini servos in the wrist to decrease weight which let me use a single shoulder servo. I agree that the missing wrist axis is limiting, but I plan to treat this kit as a starting point. Here's a link to six axis plans on Thingverse:

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2433

    As you can see they're really similar designs, so hacking it into a six axis machine should be fine. It also has the base plywood and turntable plywood touching to reduce wobbles. I'm mostly viewing this as a way to save time scroll sawing the gripper parts of the Thingverse machine. In the end I'll have a few left over servos from my old arm to repurpose for sensor turrets.

    Also, I emailed the seller and he confirmed that he is Sawtooth Design Lab. So this is somebody's ebay robot kit business which is pretty neat.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-14 15:39
    I want to hear all about this build, Martin_H!

    I think two of these mounted as arms on a (wooden) humanoid robot would be the bee's knees...
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-15 06:55
    erco wrote: »
    I want to hear all about this build, Martin_H!

    I'll definitely document the build and my improvements.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-21 14:04
    Didja build it yet?

    I had to get one, too. Hey, it's plywood!

    But I'm fully prepared to be underwhelmed by the included controller. I might have to build one of my own.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-21 16:52
    erco wrote: »
    Didja build it yet?

    I had to get one, too. Hey, it's plywood!

    But I'm fully prepared to be underwhelmed by the included controller. I might have to build one of my own.

    Yes, the kit came on Friday, and my son and I finished it this morning. The kit and instructions are well done and everything goes together smoothly. The included controller and firmware doesn't hold a candle to the Propeller inverse kinematics I wrote. The controller is fast enough, but doesn't have enough RAM for trig tables. I wrote the builder and mentioned the idea of using it a serial servo controller with the PC doing the kinematics. He replied that it was an interesting idea.

    So I'm going to use my own microcontroller and firmware. I'm going to add wrist rotation in a day or so after figuring out the best way to go about it. I'm not sure what to do with the included controller. It's too nice to throw away, but not good enough to use.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-21 17:49
    Martin_H wrote: »
    It's too nice to throw away, but not good enough to use.

    I have a house full of stuff like that!
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-22 20:07
    I modified the gripper to add wrist rotation. I'm using a GWS mini standard http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/506 which is between a standard and mini servo in size. I cut off the ends of the P2 pieces and glued them to the gripper with a back piece with holes for the servo horn. Here's what it looks like:

    IMG_20130122_225626.jpg
    IMG_20130122_225616.jpg


    I am now working on the servo attachment to the remaining part of P2. Basically I'm making a bracket which attaches to them via bolts.

    Update : I switched to a mini servo because the length of the gripper plus rotation servo seems to long. A mini servo knocks another quarter inch off which should help.
    1024 x 768 - 53K
    1024 x 768 - 49K
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-22 21:13
    Mine arrived today. It's TINY compared to what I expected, but it does look like a pretty nice kit. I'm debating assembling it pronto vs, spraying it with a clearcoat (more likely). Might also be worth coating the gripper "gear teeth" with thin CA to harden them up and reduce backlash.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-22 21:25
    erco wrote: »
    Mine arrived today. It's TINY compared to what I expected, but it does look like a pretty nice kit.

    I agree it was smaller than I expected, but within its work envelope I think it will get the job done. The smaller size might come in handy if you mount it on top of a mobile base too.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-22 21:53
    Maybe it will fit inside my new LIS lunchbox, I got it intending to build something robotic inside: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140781886744
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-23 09:59
    Looking on Thingverse there are a number of robot arms this size or slightly smaller:

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:387

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2902

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:28969

    They all seems to leave out one joint over what is typical (either wrist rotate or elevate), so at this size it might be hard to fit all axis into a machine. I linked to this one above which is about a half servo length bigger and uses mini-servos:

    http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2433

    So that extra bit of space may be critical, or may not be. I'll find out as I continue to try and hack in a wrist mechanism.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-23 10:51
    Yes, I learned when I scratch-built my arm that each link length is pretty critical for maximum flexibility and range of motion. This arm may be a plywood version of a Lynxmotion arm or such.

    I'll build mine stock (5 axes) first anyway. But two changes I'll implement at a quick glance:

    1) the "gears" that keep the gripper links in sync are nothing close to involute gears and have lots of slop. Pretty bad. I can build up with CA and hand file to a better shape.

    2) flipping the gripper over so the servo is on top allows the gripper to be parallel to the ground at ground level.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-23 11:06
    erco wrote: »
    Yes, I learned when I scratch-built my arm that each link length is pretty critical for maximum flexibility and range of motion. This arm may be a plywood version of a Lynxmotion arm or such.

    Yes, it looks almost exactly like the old Lynx 5.

    http://roboticseng.blogspot.com/2009/08/top-ten-reasons-to-buy-industrial-robot.html

    The Lynx 6 is similar but has wrist rotation, but is just a hair bit bigger.

    http://www.robotmatrix.org/images/Lynxmotion-Lynx-6-Robotic-Arm.gif

    If the wrist rotation doesn't work I have a back-out plan to add a cross member to bolt the gripper to. That will return to 5 axis, but make the gripper removable for use with my other robot arm. I agree that flipping over the gripper is a good idea. You almost never bend the gripper backwards, but often want to get low to the ground level for grasping.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-25 17:47
    Just built my gripper and forearm today. Nice kit, and I did make a few mods. I built up the gripper sync gears with CA, and also coated all the pivot holes with CA for less play & longer life. This design uses threaded bolts as pivots, one of my least favorite things. But with CA and light use, they'lll hold up fine. Nice tight gripper action after the mods. I'll try to post a video this weekend.

    Martin: Did you try the included controller? I don't think I will. I don't need another uC language on my PC. Besides, I think I'll be busy this weekend "doing the 8" on the PC...

    Sadly, not figure 8 challenge. Windows 8 "upgrade". ACK! I have at least 3 computers which might need it.

    Microsoft claims the download price jumps from $40 to $200 on Feb 1: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/buy?ocid=GA8_SEM_BNG_Buy_Search_Txt_Desktop&semid=ef_BNG_e_x4f51lmge0cdgas4u8i8_2016642753&WT.search=1
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-25 18:44
    erco wrote: »
    Just built my gripper and forearm today. Nice kit, and I did make a few mods. I built up the gripper sync gears with CA, and also coated all the pivot holes with CA for less play & longer life. This design uses threaded bolts as pivots, one of my least favorite things. But with CA and light use, they'lll hold up fine. Nice tight gripper action after the mods. I'll try to post a video this weekend.

    Martin: Did you try the included controller? I don't think I will. I don't need another uC language on my PC. Besides, I think I'll be busy this weekend "doing the 8" on the PC...

    I would definitely like to see the gripper mods. I've noticed that the nuts work lose as the gripper moves and was thinking of either switching to lock nuts or putting a bit of loctite on them.

    I fiddled a bit with the included controller. It's an Atmel version of an Intel design and it's programmed in a 16 bit integer C. It has 4 kb of flash, but the free tool chain only allows 2 kb programs. For simple stuff it works fine, with the built in UART and some fiddling around I could probably make it into a serial servo controller. But it can't compared to an Arduino or Propeller chip which are both capable of floating point arithmetic and trigonometry.

    I'm probably going to hold off Windows 8 until the first service pack and only on new hardware. I generally don't upgrade once I have a working configuration because I am always concerned about drivers on new OS's for old hardware.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-25 19:07
    Gripper works pretty well after mods. You definitely need to loctite the nuts on. I used thin CA very sparingly.
  • ercoerco Posts: 20,255
    edited 2013-01-26 01:47
    erco wrote: »
    Maybe it will fit inside my new LIS lunchbox, I got it intending to build something robotic inside: http://www.ebay.com/itm/140781886744

    It DOES fit inside! Just barely... It was a very quick build using CA instead of wood glue.
  • Martin_HMartin_H Posts: 4,051
    edited 2013-01-26 03:52
    The arm inside the lunch box is a riot.
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