NXT 2.0 or Parallax BoeBot
hapalua
Posts: 149
Hello I m wondering whether I should buy the boe bot or the lego nxt 2.0 and reasons why?
Thanks,
Luke
Thanks,
Luke
Comments
Short answer, depends on what you are interested and what skills you want to develop. Can you tells us more what you'd like to do with either?
Any help would be appreciated.
I'm a big fan of Lego stuff. I'm sure a NXT set would be a lot of fun and it would probably teach you things that would be useful when you're ready to move on to a more serious robot controller. But if you really want to learn how to make and program robots you ought to use a Propeller. The Propeller is a great (IMO the best) microcontroller to use with robotics.
A Propeller can control up to 32 servos without additional hardware (it can control a lot more servos with a few extra chips).
There are lots of ways you could get started with a Propeller and robots. One would be to get a Propeller Board of Education with the BOE-Bot chassis. I used this combination to make a robot that could record it's path to a SD card and then "play back" it path and repeat the same movements it had performed previously.
You don't need a full PropBOE to use a Propeller to control a BOE-Bot. Jose used a QuickStart board to upgrade his BOE-Bot. A Propeller Protoboard could also be used with a BOE-Bot chassis.
Since the BOE-Bot is a relatively simple robot, you could make a similar robot with a couple of continuous rotation (CR) servos (most normal servos are easy to convert to CR). These HobbyKing servos are really powerful for the money and really easy to modify to CR.
With robots, you often want to control multiple servos at once and also read multiple sensors while your controlling the servos. The eight cogs of a Propeller make doing all these things at once a piece of cake.
I hope you take a look as some of the projects people have done with the Propeller to see how useful it is. I've listed some of my projects in post #2 of my index (see signature). I also have links to other robot projects in post #12 of the index.
You ought to take a look at the Propeller Forum to see how helpful people are when someone is having a problem with their Propeller project.
One factor to concider when selectioning a robot kit is your age and technical experience. If you're new to programming and young, you might be better off with something like the Scribbler 2 (S2). The S2 is already built and will work right off the bat with the pre-loaded program. The S2 uses a Propeller so you can still learn to program the Propeller without having to worry about the hardware. (The S2 is also a good choice for those with lots of technical experience.)
I doubt it will come as a surprise I also have a Scribbler 2 project. I added an ultrasound sensor to the S2 to increase its ability to sense its surroundings.
I think a lot of my projects would have been much more difficult (if not impossible) to complete using some other popular microcontroller.
While I think the Propeller is a great microcontroller for robots, I also think Lego makes good stuff. I think the NXT parts could be used with a Propeller if you decide to upgrade to a Propeller later.
Sorry for such a long reply. Once I get going about how cool the Propeller is, it's hard for me to stop.
With the NXT stuff it's hard to make a major mistake and the brick has bluetooth built in. There's also an enormous amount of information online and my ten year old son can build things on his own. But there's not enough technic parts included and Lego doesn't sell them alla carte, so getting certain parts is a challenge. You are also limited to 3 motors without an additional brick or third party controller.
Where Parallax gear shines is learning basic electronics which allows branching out in directions beyond the NXT gear. For example I've built a five axis robot arms which would be hard to do with the NXT. You also have more choices for sensors and they are cheaper than NXT gear. But more care is required because it is not as goof proof as the NXT stuff.
As an adult I prefer Parallax gear.
If you can afford NXT you can afford this
http://www.parallax.com/Store/Robots/AllRobots/tabid/128/CategoryID/3/List/0/SortField/0/Level/a/ProductID/794/Default.aspx
Youll get a boe bot with a basic stamp and as a bonus the whats a microcontoller kit. Ive been programming in C and other languages for years including a bit of assembler but when i got in to the prop last year I didnt know anything about electronics or hardware. I started by building my own prop board and then reading a few electronics books. I tried to get through the Propeller Education Kit at the same time. I then won a whats a micro controller kit using the bs2, I was able to do everything in the book with in a few days, and knowing basic meant I didnt have to learn a new language so everything I was learning was about how hardware works and how one goes about writing code around hardware. After the few days it topok me to do the Bs2 kit I had a huge understanding of how all this stuff works compared to what I had from reading electrnics books and trying to learn spin, which is the propeller language. Now moving to the prop is easy I just learn SPIN which is realtively simple but im not struggling to understand how the hardware works while learning a new language.
Once you out grow the Bs2 which will happen its fairley limited you can buy a 20 dollar propeller quick start and throw it on your boe bot, once you do that youll already understand the whole robot and your only issue will be porting your exsisting code to the propeller and upgrading your code to take advantage of 8 simatanous cores. I would say that the prop is the best controller for hobby and even professional robotics which dont need a PC, its like having 8 arduinos running at the same time.
Thanks!
Luke
Edit: I just seen your last post. Way to go and as I was told when I got my first prop "Welcome To The Dark Side"!!!!
I know a lot of people like the PEK, but I personally think there are enough things to keep track of without having to worry about voltage regulators and pull-up resistors on the EEPROM.
My first choice of a Propeller to use with a robot would be the PropBOE. Second choice QuickStart. Third, Propeller Protoboard. Fourth Propeller Platform.
I think just about any premade Propeller board would be better than the PEK for robotics since a breadboarded DIP Prop has many more failure points than a PCB with a Prop. The PEK also takes a few shortcuts in the schematic (no decoupling capacitors) that can also cause trouble.
There are more than enough ways to mess up getting your robot to work with software mistakes; you don't need to add hardware uncertainties to the mix.
If you are interested in studying electronics and programming and building a very flexible robot with a wide range of possible sensors, then the BOEbot/PropBOE combination can get you well into the hobby with some additional components. Even the BOEbot with the BASIC Stamp BOE is a great starter as many can attest to. The packages Parallax has with the intro books and the charge are quite a deal. When ready, swap out you Stamp BOE for a PropBOE.
If you really want to build a robot arm, aren't seeing yourself going beyond the sensors that Lego (and a few 3rd parties) offer and won't need more than three motors, then the Lego set is nice. If you go the LEGO route, you might want to check out the LEGO Education site, they have the NXT in an educational package and also offer an expansion pack of more parts for $99 plus a rechargeable battery pack for the brick for around $50. For the whole setup, you'll spend about $450. There is also tons of LEGO information available since they are the entry point for the FIRST robotic challenges and the cornerstone of many, many school robotic programs. If you mostly want to build things and enjoy LEGOs you really can't go wrong with this choice but it is expensive....
Ok,getting into the hobby in any way is expensive, I confess!! :0)
the link i gave you earlier will have you playin with your bot in no time plus youll learn a great deal about interfacing electronics to any micro controller, then you can buy a cheap prop quick start and replace the bs2 board, and best of all read one of the 3 or 4 free parallax ebooks to learn spin. id really consider buying the boebot with free whats a micro if i had the money i would its suck a good deal, then throw a prop quickstart in ur cart for when ur done with the bs2 books. this is still under 200 which is what nxt costs. lots of the bot builders here use bs2 also. what is your concern with the kit i linked too maybe if i knew why u were avoiding it i could give u a good suggestion. i just dont wanna see u get frustrated ive done everything from scratch the last year including building my boards and scratch built chasis and if i were less enthusiastic i woulda given up along time ago, just wanna see u get off to a goid start
Yea, I'll second that. So much so that I actually have a monthly "budget" for my various projects!!!!
If you want an arm with a goal of building a chess playing arm, then the BOE will help you in the long run. The shortest route to a chess playing arm may be the LEGO sets. Google Lego chess playing and see what you ge there are some examples to look at. The chess playing robot arm of your dreams may be beyond logo which may push you back to an in depth study of robotics and a Propeller based solution.
Any start is a good start but some may be false starts.
I've added some Vex Mecanum wheels to mine.
I think someone has a chess program for the Prop. It doesn't move the pieces though.
I think a giant checkers gameboard where each checker is a self-moving, Bluetooth-enabled BoeBot is in order, Ken!
Cool, using a team swarming strategy? We'll have to wait for the PropII so we can have a powerful overmind controlling each team.
Mindstorms limits you to 3 motors and 3 or 4 sensors per brick. You can have multiple bricks but that gets a lot more expensive and complicated. There are the standard sensors and a few 3rd party sensors. Creating your own sensor or really learning about electronics is limited and outside the scope of the Lego world. The building part of Mindstorms is where it shines, you can connect hundreds and hundreds of standard pieces into some very impressive structures. Sometimes, structural strength is missing and you need to jump through some hoops to build something that really stays together. That's an art in itself. Mindstorm programming is either through their Graphic language ( free with kit) or via C (extra purchase). Upgrading or swapping out the robot brains is near impossible.
The PropBOE/BOEbot package is meant to learn electronics, micro-controllers and construction as it applies to a mobile robot base. From the existing parts, you build from the ground up. Modifications and custom sensor and programming are pretty much unlimited by what you want to do. Programming can be done in many languages (including BASIC) and your robots brain is your choice and can be swapped/upgraded while generally still using the same motors and sensors.
Still, it goes back to what you want to do. If you want to build an arm or chess playing robot, you can get there in some fashion with a Mindstorm kit and some additions but there may be limitations you can't overcome with Mindstorm no matter how hard you try.
The PropBOE/BOEbot will teach you basic, solid fundamentals toward building anything robotic but it will be a longer journey and it will always be a rolling robot platform. It may have an arm you've added but it will not be an arm. Some parts may be repurposed into an arm after you learn a lot.
Here's an easy first build (3 servos) with a Parallax BS2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z8lTSX4PHs
And one more complex (6 servos) with a different processor, somewhat like a BS2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF6TwbIT384