Forum rules, etiquette and increased moderation (please read)

Ken Gracey · 2012-09-27 08:44

Hello,

If you spend any time on your Parallax forums you are aware of the recent thread about prices of products, shipping, and the incredibly poor taste exhibited throughout the thread mostly by a single poster. I also received an e-mail physical threat from the original poster. As you know, we don't hide behind avatars - Parallax staff is wide open using our actual names. E-mail threats and forum chaos are difficult to address since we don't meet people in person and may have no prior rapport upon which to base further interaction with a specific party, especially when there's anonymity and other countries of residence.

We simply don't tolerate this kind of behavior on our forums or using our e-mail services.

To deal with this activity not becoming more frequent, I'm asking our forum moderators to more actively keep poor etiquette under control as it emerges on the threads. Threads can be locked, users may be banned, and moderation of language is possible. When coupled with physical threats or intimidation tactics we shall carefully protect your environment. You shall be comfortable on our forums.

On these forums you will find children, including the kids from my robotics program in middle school. I don't want these kids or any other kids reading such trash. We also have a number of educators, government leaders, product designers and new visitors who are regularly checking out the integrity of our (your) support and whether or not they can partner with our company for future projects.

I am happy how our forum guests handle these situations, in general.

I should also encourage people to trust their internal compass. Having met many people from these forums all around the world, I can confirm that "you are what you write" and that in general people are who you think they are after reading their written words. Therefore, feel free to direct our forum moderators towards situations that you think are in violation of our forum rules and we will act upon them. Some of our forum moderators are here all the time (the "extended team") but our internal staff is likely to be more of a second responder. This week, for example, about a dozen of our staff are spread between Maker Faire (New York City), Boy Scout Conventions (Beale, California) and presentations to federal government (Washington D.C.). Our extended team is really important to help keep the forums positive.

The forum rules are here http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?134682-Forum-Guidelines

Okay, let's give this another try. Thanks for your time.

Thanks,

Ken Gracey

erco · 2012-09-27 09:02

An excellent reminder, Ken. This is by far the friendliest forum I've seen and it's important we all do our part to keep it that way.

Forumistas are an amazingly diverse group, and it's fun to engage in lively chats, occasionally poking fun at each other. I regularly border (if not cross the line occasionally) on sarcasm which could be misinterpreted by new people just tuning in. "When in doubt, leave it out" should be my catch phrase to keep things on the up & up.

Unless I need to come to the defense of plywood & relays.

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2012-09-27 09:12

erco wrote:

I regularly border (if not cross the line occasionally) on sarcasm which could be misinterpreted by new people just tuning in.

Don't worry, erco. Browser says you're grandfathered in, so he won't be scrutinizing your posts for moderation.

He's put me on notice, however: no more trashcan talk.

Seriously, though, on the rare occasions when I visit other forums, the contrast with this one becomes starkly clear. The general congeniality here appears to be the exception, and it's great that we can keep it that way.

-Phil

Ken Gracey · 2012-09-27 09:21

Thick skin is a requirement and there's nothing wrong with being cynical. It's okay to answer a question with another one, too. It's those downward-spiraling threads that are coupled with nasty behavior that we want to curtail. Let the cat outta the bag, Phil.

As you pointed out, this place is exemplary and that's why it hurts to see the real quality of knowledgeable contributions possibly obscured at only superficial levels.

stamptrol · 2012-09-27 10:01

Well said, Ken

Nowithstanding this is probably the best (knowledgeable, quick-responding, generous) set of forums in webdom, I'm all for the moderators being allowed to take swift decisive action.
An "acted-upon" poster would get the chance to submit one additional post (and it should be appropriately apologetic) before being de-priviledged with extreme prejudice!

Cheers,

erco · 2012-09-27 10:03

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) wrote: »

He's put me on notice, however: no more trashcan talk.

Fair enough, PhiPi. But if I can't talk trash, I can still walk trash! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ie1AWV3-yS4

SRLM · 2012-09-27 10:27

I've been wanting to post this link for a while, but didn't feel it was worth a new thread:

http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2012/01/the-trouble-with-popularity/

I can't say that I'm a saint in this either, but I do sometimes wish that such topics don't make it here onto the forums. I tend to agree with the Stack Overflow moderators that the overall quality of a resource is diminished in the presence of a few poor threads. Even with the [noparse][chatter][/noparse] tag option (which only helps with manual, not automated, searching anyway) the threads are still there.

I've been noticing the increasing amount of threads that are posts with a link to something interesting elsewhere, or just, as the title says, chatter. While it may be interesting, in my mind it doesn't improve the overall quality of the forum. At the moment that I post this, I notice 7 threads on the what's new* page that are of little to no technical value of immediate relevance to Parallax products. That's over 25% of all current threads.

*Source: annonymous "What's New" listing. See image.

Edit: and this isn't to attack anyone in particular. This seems to be a systemic problem that affects all of us, at one time or another.

davejames · 2012-09-27 10:30

Mr. Gracey - sorry to hear that thread had devolved into such a mess.

I do want to voice my appreciation of the general tone of the Forum, after experiencing the wrath of other forums just by asking a simple question.

Many thanks for such a fine company, products, and people. I often wish I could work for Parallax.

Regards,

DJ

LoopyByteloose · 2012-09-27 10:34

Most posters like this don't remain very long on any forum. They just seem to have a desire to create a disruption with their negativity. I've learned that I don't have to participate in such threads as it makes the problem seem to grow. I wonder whatever happened to the ignore button we had in the old forum.

Nonetheless, mood is a funny thing and it doesn't hurt to look at one's own behaviour and the possibility of having alienated anyone within the community. Live and let live and the Golden Rule are still good overall guidelines.

The one concern that tends to annoy me personally is when certain products outside Parallax seem to overtake the Forum and the posters seem to loose all objectivity of what these things are about. I begin to wonder if some individuals are being paid or benefit in other ways from touting products on this forum that are in direct competition with Parallax just because they can get away with doing so. Objective and rational comparisons do little to help.

I think at some point a moderator should point out that the poster's favorite product/topic is not suppose to use the forums to advertise directly or indirectly. Of course, queries that deal with realistic comparisons are always welcome and some competition is healthy. But this stuff feels like someone is raiding Parallax's rather nice forum to glean away users.

Lively debate is welcome. I've have learned a lot from threads where people differ in opinion. And I am sure others have too.

BTW, the reason I use Loopy Byteloose is to forewarn others that my point of view may be off in the weeds at times. If they cannot recognize the clue, I still try to self moderate.

Ken Gracey · 2012-09-27 10:35

davejames wrote: »

Mr. Gracey - sorry to hear that thread had devolved into such a mess.

I do want to voice my appreciation of the general tone of the Forum, after experiencing the wrath of other forums just by asking a simple question.

Many thanks for such a fine company, products, and people. I often wish I could work for Parallax.

Regards,

DJ

Dave, thanks for being the leading reporter of spam threads BTW. If there were a Mike Green of spam reporting, it'd be you.

Ken Gracey

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2012-09-27 10:50

Although there has been an increase of [chatter] threads, I'm not terribly concerned that they have a detrimental effect on the forum as a whole. For one thing, many of them do lead to lively technical discussions, which is not such a bad thing. For another, we are a community, after all, and even chatter that's little more than fluff and friendly banter helps to promote community cohesion. It's like talking to your neighbor over the fence about nothing in particular, but it's the act of having the conversation that's important and binds people together.

Now, back to those ping pong balls!

-Phil

RDL2004 · 2012-09-27 11:07

One thing that should be stressed is for members to not "fuel the fire", in many cases the best response to a thread is none at all. I think it quickly became apparent that the thread mentioned by Ken was one of those. I also somewhat agree that there is an excess of useless cross-posting, I have been guilty of this myself. Even though it's a General Discussion forum, I personally would like to see it more focused on Parallax products, programming, and electronics design and construction. Maybe there could be a separate "Chatter" forum because such posts can still be entertaining and interesting.

Publison · 2012-09-27 11:31

RDL2004 wrote: »

Maybe there could be a separate "Chatter" forum because such posts can still be entertaining and interesting.

The was what the "Sandbox" was for. Miss it.

Publison · 2012-09-27 11:34

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) wrote: »

Although there has been an increase of [chatter] threads, I'm not terribly concerned that they have a detrimental effect on the forum as a whole. For one thing, many of them do lead to lively technical discussions, which is not such a bad thing. For another, we are a community, after all, and even chatter that's little more than fluff and friendly banter helps to promote community cohesion. It's like talking to your neighbor over the fence about nothing in particular, but it's the act of having the conversation that's important and binds people together.

-Phil

I agree with Phil. I'm not going to stop my birthday greetings to members. (Unless I get a PM from a certain monkey)

PS I'm still studying the ping pong balls.

potatohead · 2012-09-27 12:35

I like the chatter type posts. There are times when people aren't focused enough to contribute formally and on topic, and those times are great for sharing a bit of who we are. Honestly, the who is often as valuable as the how, and it is the who that makes this place great for exploring the how.

Sometimes those carry people through a dry time too, this works much the same way it does with friends in ordinary life. It is good to just "hang out" as much as it is to do projects. Clearly, projects are the primary thing here, but too seriousnorms can push people away. I'm thinking of that guy who got a HYDRA a while back, posting up a lot of fun, goofy games. Somebody commented --and it may have been a few people, about taking it to the next level, and or finishing the games and that one never returned. We've had some of those, and I always lament that happening. We have tried things too. Beginner forum, etc...

There is another instance too, more recent. I have brought somebody into all things Propeller. This person is smart and eager to do stuff, but really new to the whole discipline. They have felt it difficult to learn due to the differences in personality and technical acumen. I myself felt that, and sometime do today. It is good to consider these things so that we don't get too set in our "bubble" preventing growth and interaction.

I am taking time to mediate and explain people and their context to get past this, and I hope it works to get them over the hump, able to contribute here with few worries.

No personal issues implied, nor intended, just observations and a call to do it as well as we can because we are mutually better for it.

(Posted on a Droid, forgive gaffes please)

potatohead · 2012-09-27 12:50

Oh God! The ping pong balls! Thanks for sharing that. Big grin over here.

Circuitsoft · 2012-09-27 13:40

potatohead wrote: »

Oh God! The ping pong balls! Thanks for sharing that. Big grin over here.

I think I'm missing some context, here.

As far as flames/flamewars, it's refreshing how rare they are on this forum. When I come here, the general tone of the forum makes me less defensive. There are other forums where people tend to be more outgoing/argumentative, and I tend to be such on them. Ken, you do certainly help to set the tone here, despite how rarely you post. This helps to show just how human Parallax is, as a company.

As for reporting threads, is there a list of online moderators to be contacted in case of out-of-control threads?

Phil Pilgrim (PhiPi) · 2012-09-27 13:43

Circuitsoft wrote:

As for reporting threads, is there a list of online moderators to be contacted in case of out-of-control threads?

It's much easier than that. Just click on the exclamation-in-triangle icon at the bottom of the offending post, and a dialog box will pop up allowing you to state the reason for flagging it. All moderators of that particular forum will then be notified automatically by email.

Here's a typical auto-generated email, received recently by Browser:

<redacted forum member> ( mailto:<redacted>@msn.com ) has reported this post:

Re: <redacted thread title>
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?<redacted>

This is part of this thread:
<redacted thread title>
http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?<redacted>

This is the reason that the user gave:
Once again, I think <redacted> is being insulting to other forum members.

A discussion thread has been created at http://forums.parallax.com/showthread.php?<redacted>

This message has been sent to all moderators of this forum, or all administrators if there are no moderators.

Please respond to this post as applicable.

BTW, there's hardly ever any discussion that takes place in the moderators' "discussion thread."

-Phil

Ken Gracey · 2012-09-27 13:48

Circuitsoft wrote: »

As for reporting threads, is there a list of online moderators to be contacted in case of out-of-control threads?

Thanks Circuitsoft. To report a thread gone amok simply click on the exclamation mark in the triangle at the bottom of the post. This opens a form where you can send a message to forum moderators. From that point, they can edit/delete the post or thread. They've exhibited a very hands-off approach in their management and were chosen because of their disposition and understanding of the topics, so I don't expect a call for closer moderation to be noticeable to any of us. If for some reason we ran into a situation of censorship, we'd of course steer the tone back towards openness.

User Name · 2012-09-27 13:56

Unlike Loopy, I don't think it would be beneficial to confine all discussion on the General forum to Parallax products. OTOH, I'm infuriated by put-downs of Parallax products on Parallax forums. There are those who seem to wait until two people agree that the Propeller is a pretty cool chip, just so they can announce that Company Q has a much better product. (Sadly, they typically have little real-world experience with either product.) Were it in my power, I'd revoke their posting privileges.

As for falf, it was pretty clear quite a while ago that he had an axe to grind. He was actually allowed quite a bit of rope.

Bill Chennault · 2012-09-27 13:59

Ken--

I hope you availed yourself of every legal recourse for protection. These forums are some of the best I've ever visited or to which I've belonged.

--Bill

skylight · 2012-09-27 14:08

All in all i've found the guys and girls on here to be very friendly and ready to have a laugh as well as be extremely helpful on the technical stuff.
although there is a difference in the humour between our countries I think I have understood what goes down well with others at least I hope so as I wouldn't want to offend anyone because a certain joke reference is taken a different way in their culture.
If I do say something that means something bad I'd hope someone would put me right straight away, but it would be a shame if harmless banter was to be ruled out because I think it generates interest in the threads and makes you want to come back to see the reaction, and it also lightens what can sometimes be heavy bogged down subjects that could possibly turn bad through disagreements.
As long as people understand that others have different opinions maybe right or wrong in their eyes but all the same entitled to them and the points are put over civily and with respect then no harm is done.
and just because there's no place in this day and age for plywood and relays..........

davejames · 2012-09-27 14:49

skylight wrote: »

Although there is a difference in the humour between our countries I think I have understood what goes down well with others at least I hope so as I wouldn't want to offend anyone because a certain joke reference is taken a different way in their culture......

Soooo, are you saying that:

"<any subject or activity> is like asking a batsman to face bodyline bowling without pads or headgear"

...doesn't translate well?

skylight · 2012-09-27 15:04

davejames wrote: »

Soooo, are you saying that:

"<any subject or activity> is like asking a batsman to face bodyline bowling without pads or headgear"

...doesn't translate well?

I'm not sure, never been a fan of horseracing

Dr_Acula · 2012-09-27 16:56

To deal with this activity not becoming more frequent, I'm asking our forum moderators to more actively keep poor etiquette under control as it emerges on the threads.

A few years back on another electronics forum the same issue came up and it was pointed out that since forum members come from all over the world, it ought to be possible to select some moderators such that the "sun never set on a forum moderator". So the word went out for a few more moderators from different time zones. Obviously you don't want too many moderators either, but it should be possible to lock these things down even if they start in the middle of the night.

NWCCTV · 2012-09-27 17:06

RDL2004 wrote: »

Maybe there could be a separate "Chatter" forum because such posts can still be entertaining and interesting.

Is that not what the "General Discussion" forum is based on?
Forum: General Discussion

Primarily for questions regarding any Parallax product or general programming needs, and also friendly chatter.

If not, I must also apologize as I some times rant on about ALL subjects in here.

To Ken, It is sad that some people take things so seriously as to have to resort to sending threatening emails. I do not know which thread you are speaking of (Can someone PM me) but I agree that people need to be civil and use this forum as an eduaction tool, not some where to post angry words because you had a bad day. I would hate to see anything happen to this forum that would keep me from learning all I have learned and all I have to learn.

xanadu · 2012-09-27 17:12

Read you loud and clear.

Keep the Digital Millennium Copyright Act in mind when posting as well.

Hopefully Propeller Pizzas doesn't fall into any objectionable category lol...

Oldbitcollector (Jeff) · 2012-09-27 17:53

I've been repeating to myself all day...

"don't feed the trolls.. don't feed the trolls.."

Jeff

RDL2004 · 2012-09-27 18:29

Well, I made that comment based on an observation in an earlier post in this thread. It was just a thought.
Sometimes it does seem like the "General" forum is actually

Primarily for chatter, but questions regarding any Parallax product or general programming needs are also okay.

I don't see it as a major problem, just something to keep in mind.
Kinda like how the "Builders" forum needs to be renamed "Quadcopter" forum.

Just kidding..

frank freedman · 2012-09-27 19:15

Ken,

Finally have a moment to respond to your post from this morning. My reply to falf was probably one of the more pointed notes in hopes that he would stop short and realize that attitude is everything and impacts how he views and interacts with those around him. I can be a bit blunt at times and barring putting it nicer, would have better left him to his own demons. Maybe next time i will write a bit more tactfully and/or PM my response.

I should and do at this point apologize for the comment regarding the cheese. That was a poorly considered cheap shot for which I apologize the this forum and falf

Thank you for a great company and forum.

Frank

On a side note, I looked at past threads from said individual. There seems to be a number of these types of thread. Would be nice addition to the forum to be able to rate the threads. Over N dislikes auto flag for moderator review.

LoopyByteloose · 2012-09-27 22:45

Bill Chennault wrote: »

Ken--

I hope you availed yourself of every legal recourse for protection. These forums are some of the best I've ever visited or to which I've belonged.

--Bill

I will second that. These forums are some of the BEST EVER.

And,

DON'T FEED the trolls.

Forum rules, etiquette and increased moderation (please read)

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