I would Never put 7 on any thing less then a core 2 .......
The hardware requirements for Windows 7 are not that high. I participated in the beta test and can confirm that the 32 bit version runs very well on a single processor with "only" 1 GB of RAM. I actually tested it on this computer, which I built in 2003 and still works fine.
It's sounds as though going to a Linux scenario will involve a learning curve and cause some grief trying to run a VM in order to get some programs to run.
Yes, going to Linux is a learning exercise. But you will find it worth while in the long run.
I never had a problem running a VM. I just don't use any programs that won't run on Linux. Easy.
In the early days I nearly had to give up with the Prop as there was only the Windows based Prop Tool. Luckily BST came along and now we have many cross-platform tools for the Prop.
I have a Windows XP main computer that I do most all of my programming on and hardly any internet on. Right next to it I have a MAC Mini that I do most all of my internet browsing, emailing, writing and everything else "computer" etc. on. The laptop is mainly used during traveling or in the field work. I have a few others as well.
That's almost the same as my situation, except that I use a headless Ubuntu box as an internet gateway, firewall, file backup, and email client (kmail). kmail is accessed on the Ubox via X11 on my iMac. Unfortunately, kmail is not multiple-instance safe, so I cannot safely access it from my shop's XP machine via an X11 client there as well. Consequently the walkway between house and shop is well-worn.
If you have a spare computer you don't use much my suggestion would be to just try some of the popular linux distros that have a live cd/live flash drive option and just dive right in.
Once you settle on a distro install linux as the only OS.....This will be the least painful way of getting started. Then when you have gained some experience then experiment with VM's and dual booting.
If you have to use windows I would suggest win7 pro. I have two older computers with win7 pro and
ubuntu...seems to work well. But I may switch back to debian because ubuntu 12.04 lts will not run
on my older computers.
-dan
That's almost the same as my situation, except that I use a headless Ubuntu box as an internet gateway, firewall, file backup, and email client (kmail). kmail is accessed on the Ubox via X11 on my iMac. Unfortunately, kmail is not multiple-instance safe, so I cannot safely access it from my shop's XP machine via an X11 client there as well. Consequently the walkway between house and shop is well-worn.
-Phil
Couldn't you setup a desktop viewer on your shop machine, and a desktop viewer server on your house machine, and use it that way? You'll still only have one instance, but you'll be able to access it everywhere.
You have come to the usual reason for not using Linux - a fear that the learning curve might be too much.
I don't think it has to be. There are ways to do it at your own pace.
I shifted over to Linux as a result of Vista being such a huge disappointment. At the time, I purchased a Quad 64bit Core2 machine in Taiwan that was bundled with Vista, but only in Chinese and merely the 32bit version. I still have it installed on the machine as a dual boot with the original hard disk, plus a 2 Tbyte addition as backup for 3 computers in use. I was immediately confronted with paying MS over $1000 USD for adding English and a copy of MS Office (the discount deals you see in the US don't exist here).
Some observations of the conversion experience might help.
1. In switching to Linux, it is always easier to have another machine that can browse the web for help in a pinch. You don't have to buy books, but you do have to read and the internet will help. Linux also has a lot of documentation internally that is much better than Windows, but you do have to open a Terminal window to read it in old-style ASCII.
2. Dual boot can be a bit of an initial learning curve, but the pay back is that you don't dump anything to move over to Linux. I started out with this and have continued with it on all my machines. After all, a Windows license is attached to the machine and cannot be transferred, so why not keep it installed.
3. Virtual machine use is very doable, but not absolutely necessary.
You can keep your Windows applications on the Windows side of a dual boot. I did this because the VM of choice at the time, called WINE, did not adequately support serial ports and USB ports for Parallax legacy IDEs. From what I hear, this has been resolved. But it is still easier to migrate to Linux leisurely with a dual boot that it is to have to get it all up and running in a few days or have to wait until you fully understand the VM.
4. My shift to Linux was helped with buying an EEEpc which had only Linux and it was pre-installed. I did eventually remove the Xandros Linux and installed Ubuntu Linux. This was my only machine without dual boot. But having this platform with wifi and all the other features working made it enjoyable to learn the Linux system. The fact that the whole mass storage was only 4Gbytes enabled me to reinstall the whole system in 20 minutes if I really messed up (as I did several times).
5. Re-installing a Linux system is much easier than Windows because you can have the system one one partition and your /home directory and sub directories on another. This is an area where the difference in Linux and Windows files systems demonstrates that Linux is a better solution.
The /home is where your personal data and configuration is kept. Actually it keeps the personal data and configurations for all the users. And once you have a separate partition for it, you can reinstall, upgrade or change your Linux distribution without loosing your personal data, though configuration might require some tweaks.
In other words, the rather tedious process of making full hard disk images and restoring from them is not necessary. And you don't have to install and register a pile of different applications from different vendors. Also, backups of the /home partition effectively keep everything that is personally important to you. So the backup process is less time consuming and easier to restore. If a disaster happens, a fresh install and inserting the /home directory from a BU will revive the machine up to the last BU.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
I could go on and on about Pro and Con, but the main idea here is that a leisurely migration can be done rather than having a 'lost weekend' where the computer is down and needs to have a new system up and running in full functional capacity by Monday morning.
These days I use Libre Office instead of MS Office for everything. I don't have to share a lot of MS documents, so it is possible to leave that behind. I keep my licensed MS Office in XP for when I must use it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Try downloading and burning some .iso files to CDs or DVDs as required and test run the various Linux distributions on your target machine. These CD/DVDs serve as demonstration mode and can then be also used as installation disks.
When you do decide to install, you need a working internet connection to complete the installation. But you don't need to be on the internet to run the demonstrations.
This is true, most folks site learning curve as the main reason for not switching or even trying linux.
I started using linux in 1990 or there abouts. At the time, the two big distros were slackware and redhat. I logged onto an linux irc channel, and asked which one I should use.
"redhat, because it's better."
was the reply I got.
Attempting to get clarification as to why redhat was better largely fell on deaf ears, so I promptly went out and installed slackware, and (when given a choice) I still use nothing else linux related.
Now, admittedly, slackware probably has a larger learning curve than any of the graphical plug and play distros, but I've never been one for letting the computer do what it wants, and ignore what I want (something windows does very well) so for me, slackware was (and still is) an excellent fit.
I use OSX for my main machine these days, but even there, I still have 10.4 (tiger) which is 3 or 4 releases old, and I still spend most of my time at the terminal prompt, something that is hard to do in windows, though there I spend most of my time at the dos prompt as well.
Installing new linux kernels is something that can be done from anywhere, so if you hear about a new exploit, it's a simple matter to log in to your box, from anywhere, patch and recompile the kernel, install it and reboot the machine, all without being physically present, something I've done several times over the years. I've not found a single other os with that kind of upgradability.
But, with all that said, Slackware is definitely not for newbies, or those who don't want the fine details of how the system works, and how to get into the guts of the system so to speak. On the other hand, if you're like me, and enjoy both a challenge (though learning linux really wasn't that big of a challenge) and you like control over what your machine does, and like to know when it's doing it, then slackware is the release you want. (or at least, it used to be, My last slackware install was ver 7.0, they're up into double digits now).
I don't have any super new machines, everything in our house is min 7 years old, so what's new and great doesn't enter into the picture for us.
So, there you have it, my linux usage (in a nutshell).
Doubt it helps, but it may be interesting reading for somebody.
I've used viewers like VNC, but they're quite slow compared with X, since they operate at the screen pixel level rather than the functional level.
-Phil
That is Odd .. I Only VNC other systems now. I lue of a 4 port KVm I just VNC my mac and Linux systems .
The mac mini has 3 screens . Ill often view my server on #3 as a VNC . Heck for giggles I tried a DVD video . It works ! Its not fast EG 15 FPS or so I reckon . but It's viewable .
Are your systms on a gigabit router and cards and CAT 5e Ect ?
I reallly have had fun last night with my VMs ..... I have now more to try .. this is WAY to easy ! ... I would highly recomend that people try this .
Use your PC on XP or 7 . some thing light ish .. then installl Vbox on Windows . Install all the Linux distoros you want ! Play ! break!
Grow! . then Once you are happy with a distro you want to commit to . back up all those VMs . and Wipe youe drive .
Install that chosen base Distro ..... then install Vbox and re insert those VMs and then make a Windows VM .............
some what easy to do and lets you use your HDDspeed some thing a CD cant do !
Live boots are cute but My mom can set up Vbox . its far more easy and you can at any time toss the Tux and its SW out if you don;t like it .
Yes you need RAM and some what perky CPU but Iam on a MAC Mini a 2GHZ core 2 with 4 GB ram .. Hardly top of the line ! but it does its 10.5 base and one other sys Very nicely .. in fact it is now my De facto VM system ...... I wont after al need to get a I3 nad blow 600 USD ... just to play with distros .
and I use VNC to remote it under the desk..... this way my main mac has the world of OSes But its not ON that mac . its isolated in land far far away ..
BTW the only thing better then a DD command is A SNAPSHOT ! ...... I cant tell you how easy it is to just roll back after a goof up.
I would do Windows 7 on some upgrade deal you find.
One thing that really helps on moderate hardware is to get it installed, then shut down most of the services you don't need, and set the desktop to classic mode, so that it's not doing all the Aero Desktop window manager graphics tricks. At that point, it's pretty lean, almost as lean as XP is.
That said, I would second all the Linux thoughts. Once you do go through the learning curve, Linux is great. There are always too many options, and it's sometimes rough when a distribution you like decides to throw some wrenches into the works, but with all things Linux, you can tear them out, if you want and are inclined to do.
What I'm seeing here is a fairly narrow focus for the machine. In that case, the best path is to just deal with the Windows OS and get back to doing the stuff you want to do with that machine. Linux is another hobby for a while. Know that, and when you've got the time to get yourself sorted out on it, I highly recommend doing so. I very often run live distributions that I've tweaked to contain my tools. Plug a USB key into a machine, boot, and go from there to doing stuff. Shut it all down, and it's as if you were never there as far as the machine is concerned. My disk tools, some emulators, programming, etc... are on an older Ubuntu distribution that I boot from disc or USB when needed.
If doing stuff with the laptop is the goal, the $100 or so for an upgrade is really cheap compared to free time costs. If not, and you want to build up a new environment and learn some stuff, picking up a new hobby for a while, consider the Linux.
Once one learns LInux, any Linux is easy. And any Linux is better than MS.
I just recommend starting with an extremely popular distribution as a means to get others to help you.
Yes, DD is available in LInux and does just about everything that Ghost, Acronos, and other disk imagining software can do. And it is free........ free......... free......
Comments
The hardware requirements for Windows 7 are not that high. I participated in the beta test and can confirm that the 32 bit version runs very well on a single processor with "only" 1 GB of RAM. I actually tested it on this computer, which I built in 2003 and still works fine.
Yes, going to Linux is a learning exercise. But you will find it worth while in the long run.
I never had a problem running a VM. I just don't use any programs that won't run on Linux. Easy.
In the early days I nearly had to give up with the Prop as there was only the Windows based Prop Tool. Luckily BST came along and now we have many cross-platform tools for the Prop.
That's almost the same as my situation, except that I use a headless Ubuntu box as an internet gateway, firewall, file backup, and email client (kmail). kmail is accessed on the Ubox via X11 on my iMac. Unfortunately, kmail is not multiple-instance safe, so I cannot safely access it from my shop's XP machine via an X11 client there as well. Consequently the walkway between house and shop is well-worn.
-Phil
Once you settle on a distro install linux as the only OS.....This will be the least painful way of getting started. Then when you have gained some experience then experiment with VM's and dual booting.
If you have to use windows I would suggest win7 pro. I have two older computers with win7 pro and
ubuntu...seems to work well. But I may switch back to debian because ubuntu 12.04 lts will not run
on my older computers.
-dan
Couldn't you setup a desktop viewer on your shop machine, and a desktop viewer server on your house machine, and use it that way? You'll still only have one instance, but you'll be able to access it everywhere.
I'm thinking something like NX: http://www.nomachine.com/download.php
-Phil
I don't think it has to be. There are ways to do it at your own pace.
I shifted over to Linux as a result of Vista being such a huge disappointment. At the time, I purchased a Quad 64bit Core2 machine in Taiwan that was bundled with Vista, but only in Chinese and merely the 32bit version. I still have it installed on the machine as a dual boot with the original hard disk, plus a 2 Tbyte addition as backup for 3 computers in use. I was immediately confronted with paying MS over $1000 USD for adding English and a copy of MS Office (the discount deals you see in the US don't exist here).
Some observations of the conversion experience might help.
1. In switching to Linux, it is always easier to have another machine that can browse the web for help in a pinch. You don't have to buy books, but you do have to read and the internet will help. Linux also has a lot of documentation internally that is much better than Windows, but you do have to open a Terminal window to read it in old-style ASCII.
2. Dual boot can be a bit of an initial learning curve, but the pay back is that you don't dump anything to move over to Linux. I started out with this and have continued with it on all my machines. After all, a Windows license is attached to the machine and cannot be transferred, so why not keep it installed.
3. Virtual machine use is very doable, but not absolutely necessary.
You can keep your Windows applications on the Windows side of a dual boot. I did this because the VM of choice at the time, called WINE, did not adequately support serial ports and USB ports for Parallax legacy IDEs. From what I hear, this has been resolved. But it is still easier to migrate to Linux leisurely with a dual boot that it is to have to get it all up and running in a few days or have to wait until you fully understand the VM.
4. My shift to Linux was helped with buying an EEEpc which had only Linux and it was pre-installed. I did eventually remove the Xandros Linux and installed Ubuntu Linux. This was my only machine without dual boot. But having this platform with wifi and all the other features working made it enjoyable to learn the Linux system. The fact that the whole mass storage was only 4Gbytes enabled me to reinstall the whole system in 20 minutes if I really messed up (as I did several times).
5. Re-installing a Linux system is much easier than Windows because you can have the system one one partition and your /home directory and sub directories on another. This is an area where the difference in Linux and Windows files systems demonstrates that Linux is a better solution.
The /home is where your personal data and configuration is kept. Actually it keeps the personal data and configurations for all the users. And once you have a separate partition for it, you can reinstall, upgrade or change your Linux distribution without loosing your personal data, though configuration might require some tweaks.
In other words, the rather tedious process of making full hard disk images and restoring from them is not necessary. And you don't have to install and register a pile of different applications from different vendors. Also, backups of the /home partition effectively keep everything that is personally important to you. So the backup process is less time consuming and easier to restore. If a disaster happens, a fresh install and inserting the /home directory from a BU will revive the machine up to the last BU.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
I could go on and on about Pro and Con, but the main idea here is that a leisurely migration can be done rather than having a 'lost weekend' where the computer is down and needs to have a new system up and running in full functional capacity by Monday morning.
These days I use Libre Office instead of MS Office for everything. I don't have to share a lot of MS documents, so it is possible to leave that behind. I keep my licensed MS Office in XP for when I must use it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Try downloading and burning some .iso files to CDs or DVDs as required and test run the various Linux distributions on your target machine. These CD/DVDs serve as demonstration mode and can then be also used as installation disks.
When you do decide to install, you need a working internet connection to complete the installation. But you don't need to be on the internet to run the demonstrations.
I started using linux in 1990 or there abouts. At the time, the two big distros were slackware and redhat. I logged onto an linux irc channel, and asked which one I should use.
"redhat, because it's better."
was the reply I got.
Attempting to get clarification as to why redhat was better largely fell on deaf ears, so I promptly went out and installed slackware, and (when given a choice) I still use nothing else linux related.
Now, admittedly, slackware probably has a larger learning curve than any of the graphical plug and play distros, but I've never been one for letting the computer do what it wants, and ignore what I want (something windows does very well) so for me, slackware was (and still is) an excellent fit.
I use OSX for my main machine these days, but even there, I still have 10.4 (tiger) which is 3 or 4 releases old, and I still spend most of my time at the terminal prompt, something that is hard to do in windows, though there I spend most of my time at the dos prompt as well.
Installing new linux kernels is something that can be done from anywhere, so if you hear about a new exploit, it's a simple matter to log in to your box, from anywhere, patch and recompile the kernel, install it and reboot the machine, all without being physically present, something I've done several times over the years. I've not found a single other os with that kind of upgradability.
But, with all that said, Slackware is definitely not for newbies, or those who don't want the fine details of how the system works, and how to get into the guts of the system so to speak. On the other hand, if you're like me, and enjoy both a challenge (though learning linux really wasn't that big of a challenge) and you like control over what your machine does, and like to know when it's doing it, then slackware is the release you want. (or at least, it used to be, My last slackware install was ver 7.0, they're up into double digits now).
I don't have any super new machines, everything in our house is min 7 years old, so what's new and great doesn't enter into the picture for us.
So, there you have it, my linux usage (in a nutshell).
Doubt it helps, but it may be interesting reading for somebody.
That is Odd .. I Only VNC other systems now. I lue of a 4 port KVm I just VNC my mac and Linux systems .
The mac mini has 3 screens . Ill often view my server on #3 as a VNC . Heck for giggles I tried a DVD video . It works ! Its not fast EG 15 FPS or so I reckon . but It's viewable .
Are your systms on a gigabit router and cards and CAT 5e Ect ?
I reallly have had fun last night with my VMs ..... I have now more to try .. this is WAY to easy ! ... I would highly recomend that people try this .
Use your PC on XP or 7 . some thing light ish .. then installl Vbox on Windows . Install all the Linux distoros you want ! Play ! break!
Grow! . then Once you are happy with a distro you want to commit to . back up all those VMs . and Wipe youe drive .
Install that chosen base Distro ..... then install Vbox and re insert those VMs and then make a Windows VM .............
some what easy to do and lets you use your HDDspeed some thing a CD cant do !
Live boots are cute but My mom can set up Vbox . its far more easy and you can at any time toss the Tux and its SW out if you don;t like it .
Yes you need RAM and some what perky CPU but Iam on a MAC Mini a 2GHZ core 2 with 4 GB ram .. Hardly top of the line ! but it does its 10.5 base and one other sys Very nicely .. in fact it is now my De facto VM system ...... I wont after al need to get a I3 nad blow 600 USD ... just to play with distros .
and I use VNC to remote it under the desk..... this way my main mac has the world of OSes But its not ON that mac . its isolated in land far far away ..
BTW the only thing better then a DD command is A SNAPSHOT ! ...... I cant tell you how easy it is to just roll back after a goof up.
One thing that really helps on moderate hardware is to get it installed, then shut down most of the services you don't need, and set the desktop to classic mode, so that it's not doing all the Aero Desktop window manager graphics tricks. At that point, it's pretty lean, almost as lean as XP is.
That said, I would second all the Linux thoughts. Once you do go through the learning curve, Linux is great. There are always too many options, and it's sometimes rough when a distribution you like decides to throw some wrenches into the works, but with all things Linux, you can tear them out, if you want and are inclined to do.
What I'm seeing here is a fairly narrow focus for the machine. In that case, the best path is to just deal with the Windows OS and get back to doing the stuff you want to do with that machine. Linux is another hobby for a while. Know that, and when you've got the time to get yourself sorted out on it, I highly recommend doing so. I very often run live distributions that I've tweaked to contain my tools. Plug a USB key into a machine, boot, and go from there to doing stuff. Shut it all down, and it's as if you were never there as far as the machine is concerned. My disk tools, some emulators, programming, etc... are on an older Ubuntu distribution that I boot from disc or USB when needed.
If doing stuff with the laptop is the goal, the $100 or so for an upgrade is really cheap compared to free time costs. If not, and you want to build up a new environment and learn some stuff, picking up a new hobby for a while, consider the Linux.
I just recommend starting with an extremely popular distribution as a means to get others to help you.
Yes, DD is available in LInux and does just about everything that Ghost, Acronos, and other disk imagining software can do. And it is free........ free......... free......